Jump to content
Kaapstad

HBO’s own inconsistency with Jon’s ending.

Recommended Posts

HBO’s own synopsis 

https://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-8/6-the-iron-throne/synopsis

"Jon rides once again beyond the Wall, guiding the surviving Free Folk back to their home."

This seems to mean Jon is not staying with them and only guiding them home. 

HBO Blog-

He wound up where he began. Jon makes his own callback to Maester Aemon’s Season 5, Episode 7 comment “Love is the death of duty” — a fitting one given Aemon was also a Targaryen who had no interest in the throne. But what about his sentence to return to the Night’s Watch? It may have seemed like a slap in the face for a man who was once a king (and arguably the rightful heir to the Iron Throne), but actually Season 8, Episode 4 hinted at what was to come. As Jon bids farewell to his closest friends, he asks Tormund to bring Ghost beyond the Wall with him

Jon Snow: “He’ll be happier up there.

Tormund: “So would you."

Jon Snow: “I wish I was going with you.”

Tormund: “You’ve got the North in you. The real North.”

The scene is simple enough not to immediately remember while watching the final episode, but it bears repeating once you’ve seen Jon riding into the forest among the wildlings — where he always belonged.

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/season-8-episode-6-finale-thrones-throwback-daenerys-vision

This seems to imply he becomes king beyond the wall. 

Notice the inconsistency. They themselves don’t know where he ends up! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

He belongs in the north but it doesn’t mean he stays with the wildlings. He could just range the north and return to the wall. Benjen says my job is out there. 

Jon wanted to be a ranger. Now he’s a ranger. That’s how I took the ending. 

 

 

Edited by King Jon Snow Stark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Kaapstad said:

HBO’s own synopsis 

https://www.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-8/6-the-iron-throne/synopsis

"Jon rides once again beyond the Wall, guiding the surviving Free Folk back to their home."

This seems to mean Jon is not staying with them and only guiding them home. 

HBO Blog-

He wound up where he began. Jon makes his own callback to Maester Aemon’s Season 5, Episode 7 comment “Love is the death of duty” — a fitting one given Aemon was also a Targaryen who had no interest in the throne. But what about his sentence to return to the Night’s Watch? It may have seemed like a slap in the face for a man who was once a king (and arguably the rightful heir to the Iron Throne), but actually Season 8, Episode 4 hinted at what was to come. As Jon bids farewell to his closest friends, he asks Tormund to bring Ghost beyond the Wall with him

Jon Snow: “He’ll be happier up there.

Tormund: “So would you."

Jon Snow: “I wish I was going with you.”

Tormund: “You’ve got the North in you. The real North.”

The scene is simple enough not to immediately remember while watching the final episode, but it bears repeating once you’ve seen Jon riding into the forest among the wildlings — where he always belonged.

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/season-8-episode-6-finale-thrones-throwback-daenerys-vision

This seems to imply he becomes king beyond the wall. 

Notice the inconsistency. They themselves don’t know where he ends up! 

HBO should write somewhere the fans opinion of this disaster they called ending... they wouldn’t dare of course but none of their summaries or posts or articles make sense anymore for people to even pay attention. 

Edited by Nightwish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree they often don't know what they're doing and it's clear when you watch the episodes.  Here, however, I don't see what you see.  Where does it imply Jon is going to live north of the Wall?  Another character earlier saying that is where Jon belongs doesn't mean that is what Jon later decides to do.  That is a HUGE leap.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't give a flying fuck what they say, my headcanon is that Jon went beyond the Wall to live with the Free Folk for the rest of his days. The ending was shit enough without having Jon martyred to the Night's Watch. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

I don't give a flying fuck what they say, my headcanon is that Jon went beyond the Wall to live with the Free Folk for the rest of his days. The ending was shit enough without having Jon martyred to the Night's Watch. 

That was the point. Because even their summary can be interpreted in a bunch of ways. 

If they wanted it clear there would have been one more line where Jon says he’s not coming back or he’s staying. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

That was the point. Because even their summary can be interpreted in a bunch of ways. 

If they wanted it clear there would have been one more line where Jon says he’s not coming back or he’s staying. 

I noticed he says that to Tyrion "I expect I won’t see you again" but not to Sansa and Arya. 

A clear unambiguous ending would be Jon wearing wildling clothes moving out with every free folk yelling "All hail the king beyond the wall". 

Edited by Kaapstad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Kaapstad said:

I noticed he says that to Tyrion "I expect I won’t see you again" but not to Sansa and Arya. 

A clear unambiguous ending would be Jon wearing wildling clothes moving out with every free folk yelling "All hail the king beyond the wall". 

To me the fact that he invited them up to visit him. Then changes from Stark clothes to NW clothes means he’s staying in the NW. Last scene mirrors the very first scene and when Jon and Sam went to take the oath. 

Edited by King Jon Snow Stark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, legba11 said:

I agree they often don't know what they're doing and it's clear when you watch the episodes.  Here, however, I don't see what you see.  Where does it imply Jon is going to live north of the Wall?  Another character earlier saying that is where Jon belongs doesn't mean that is what Jon later decides to do.  That is a HUGE leap.

This part. 

Jon Snow: “I wish I was going with you.”

Tormund: “You’ve got the North in you. The real North.”

Then this is what the blog says in the last line. 

"The scene is simple enough not to immediately remember while watching the final episode,but it bears repeating once you’ve seen Jon riding into the forest among the wildlings — where he always belonged."

Edited by Kaapstad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

If you scan the Internet you will find numerous interpretations.  One interpretation I read was that the closing of the gate signified the NW was letting him go and that is why he turned back to look at it  It signified the closing of that chapter of his life which had brought him so much pain and sacrifice and now they were setting him free. A new beginning.  IMO everyone is free to believe whatever they want.  No right or wrong about it.

Edited by TheFirstofHerName

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Kaapstad said:

This part. 

Jon Snow: “I wish I was going with you.”

Tormund: “You’ve got the North in you. The real North.”

Then this is what the blog says in the last line. 

"The scene is simple enough not to immediately remember while watching the final episode,but it bears repeating once you’ve seen Jon riding into the forest among the wildlings — where he always belonged."

But being NW would allow him to go with Tormund sometimes. Being Warden and his responsibilities to the Queen means he would not be able to go past the wall. 

Feel like both him in the NW or Free with the freefolk plays to the that conversation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Kaapstad said:

The scene is simple enough not to immediately remember while watching the final episode,but it bears repeating once you’ve seen Jon riding into the forest among the wildlings — where he always belonged."

Also.....he is no longer leading them but amongst them. This began after the gate dropped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, King Jon Snow Stark said:

But being NW would allow him to go with Tormund sometimes. Being Warden and his responsibilities to the Queen means he would not be able to go past the wall. 

Feel like both him in the NW or Free with the freefolk plays to the that conversation. 

What I mean is, the blog asks us to focus on " I wish I was going with you" and then tells us to remember that when he goes with the wildlings and says he belongs among them. This implies that he goes to stay with the wildlings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

Also.....he is no longer leading them but amongst them. This began after the gate dropped. 

So? what do you mean?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Kaapstad said:

So? what do you mean?

The image invoked a togetherness with them and that he was part of them now roaming the North. It was a happy ending for him the way I interpreted it.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Kaapstad said:

This part. 

Jon Snow: “I wish I was going with you.”

Tormund: “You’ve got the North in you. The real North.”

Then this is what the blog says in the last line. 

"The scene is simple enough not to immediately remember while watching the final episode,but it bears repeating once you’ve seen Jon riding into the forest among the wildlings — where he always belonged."

I just don't see how that defines that he (significantly later) defines that he abandons his post at the NW.  At that point, Tormund is going to back to his place at and maybe further, it is unknown.  Tormund is saying he (Jon) is a wildling at heart, but the wildlings now man the Wall and live on both sides of it.

The only indicator we get from the material on screen is that Jon is still wearing his cloak, which is the defining symbol of the NW.  That is hardly definitive, but it points in the opposite direction for whatever weight you give it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

The image invoked a togetherness with them and that he was part of them now roaming the North. It was a happy ending for him the way I interpreted it.  

They just created a wedge in the symbolism by showing 4 new NW recruits and Jon wearing the cloak. Last time he left, he gave away the uniform on screen. He was even shown changing out of Stark clothes so the unambigious way to end it would have been to have him leave with the wildlings wearing Stark attire or wildlings gear. I dunno why they decided to create an ending with bits and pieces which contradict each other

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I never assumed the end indicated Jon abandoning the Watch, much as I would prefer that, but since I sincerely doubt we'll get a spin-off about the further adventures of Jon Snow, I don't think it matters. Believe what you'd like to believe. Maybe Jon becomes King Beyond the Wall. Maybe Sansa marries the new Prince of Dorn. Maybe Arya dies of scurvy. Who knows?

Edited by Anthony Pirtle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kaapstad said:

They just created a wedge in the symbolism by showing 4 new NW recruits and Jon wearing the cloak. Last time he left, he gave away the uniform on screen. He was even shown changing out of Stark clothes so the unambigious way to end it would have been to have him leave with the wildlings wearing Stark attire or wildlings gear. I dunno why they decided to create an ending with bits and pieces which contradict each other

I don’t think we are suppose to worry about whether he truly abandoned the NW or not.  The point is that he is getting to range or roam in the North where he truly belongs and amongst people who accept and respect him. Afterall.....if a raven was sent saying they needed Jon back at the wall then he would come in a wink of an eye.   That is the kind of person Jon is. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, TheFirstofHerName said:

I don’t think we are suppose to worry about whether he truly abandoned the NW or not.  The point is that he is getting to range or roam in the North where he truly belongs and amongst people who accept and respect him. Afterall.....if a raven was sent saying they needed Jon back at the wall then he would come in a wink of an eye.   That is the kind of person Jon is. 

Except there is nothing to range or discover. The undead army killed everything living on their way down. In fact I find the wildlings returning idea very flawed and stupid. They were given lands to farm at the Gift. For decades, they kept trying to break into the south because there were no resources in the far north, the land wasn’t fertile and no one liked it there. Hey resorted to raiding and pillaging Then suddenly they prefer that and we are right back where we started which makes all those years of trying to break in pointless even before the walkers arrived. And one more thing being that Mance pointed out he had a hell of a time persuading them to band together to achieve and now that the threat is destroyed, it’s very likely they will divide into factions and live a nomadic life separately and it looked to me that barely 400 wildings survived till the end which means after getting scattered there’s hardly any company for Jon. And even if they didn’t and stuck together, I don’t see any purpose for Jon with them. They will hunt, eat and sleep. That’s the sum total of their life and seeing as Jon is someone who likes a purpose and challenge new heights I can’t see him content with that. 

I really believe GRRM will handle the Jon part differently as he is the only character in the ending who completely lacks a sense of purpose. Sansa is queen and likely has an uphill task fixing all the damage and the population has significantly reduced meaning less workers. 

‘Bran and Tyrion are busy fixing all the issues with their kingdoms and probably banding together a new army. 

Arya is exploring the west of Westeros for unexplored regions and treasures. And for Arya, unlike Jon they make it a point to mention she is never returning to Westeros again multiple times  

It’s weird but Jon seems to be the only character without any purpose for him at the end. We can come up with headcanons but nothing concrete was established on the show like for the other characters. All we see is him wearing the NW uniform and going with the wildlings. That’s literally it. Zero concrete info on his life objectives from hereon in. He is just 22-23 years old. What’s he going to do for the rest of his life?

Edited by Kaapstad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×