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silverwolf22

parallels/contrasts between tyrion and jons story if A + J =T via rape is true

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Posted (edited)

 

Jon is a True Born Targaryen who thought he was a bastard, raised by his Uncle who loved him.

Tyrion is Bastard that thought he was a True Born, raised by a Cousin who hated him.

not to mention jon being born via a consensual relationship while other people believed his father raped his mother. tyrion being born via a rape while people believed it was through a consensual relationship ( tywin and joannas relationship)

Then their is the symmetry with Jaime, as they are half brothers that killed the other's father.

 

 

tyrion claimed that dwarves are all bastards in their fathers eyes" and called himself hugor hill while he was disguising himself.  and would cause an identity crisis for tyrion which is what I expect for jon when he learns that he is rhaegar and lyannas child

rhaegar and lyanna got married ( even if rhaegard didnt have his marriage to elia annulled bigamy is   not unheard of with targaryens  like with aegon and they could have gotten married in front of the heart tree)

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We know that Jon is legitimate from the fact that Ned had to fight the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy. 

 


and its likely that tyrion will be the 3rd head of the dragon since tyrion is a main character and grrrm likes him and has stated that  

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Three heads of the dragon... yes... but the third will not necessarily BE a Targaryen..."

 

 

 

and if tyrion is the bastard child of aerys he wouldnt be a targaryen but he would have just as much targ blood as jon (faegon is a blackfyre  (all the evidence points to that and the claim that varys is for the realm is  just bs

https://rainhadaenerys.tumblr.com/post/184972276772/i-dont-get-why-some-people-still-buy-book#notes

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: I dont get why some people still buy ( book) varys's line of I do everything for the realm when he has shown that he doesnt heck he killed kevin because he would have healed the wounds to the realm. also your thoughts on the faegon is actually a blackfyre ( and illyrios son with sena ) theory ( and the possibility of varys also being a blackfyre of the female line like sena ) ( grayarea made videos on the topic)

Yes, Varys cares about the people my ass. He killed Kevan, he served the Mad King and fed his paranoia, and Stannis says that the rot in the realm started with Varys. Varys is a villain that just wants to put his perfect prince in power so he can manipulate him.

Aegon is clearly a Blackfyre. First, because why wouldn’t Illyrio tell Dany and Viserys about him, or at least tell Doran and his family? If Elia made a deal to save Aegon, why didn’t she try to save Rhaenys as well? And why didn’t Elia tell anyone about this supposed plan (she could have written a letter to her family and Varys could have delivered it to them so that they would know Aegon survived)? Why is the Golden Company (that was always loyal to the Blackfyres) help a Targaryen prince? Especially when we consider that Viserys asked for the Golden Company’s help and was rejected,  (they laughed in his face) it makes no sense for them to suddenly want to help some other Targaryen. And then we also have other clues: Illyrio’s wife (who had golden and silver hair), the fact that Illyrio’s house has children’s clothes but there seems to be no sign of children in his house, the fact that they’re travelling with a septa that has stretch marks from a pregnancy, all seems to point out that Aegon is Illyrio’s son. Illyrio even says this:

“She will, or she will not.” Illyrio bit the egg in half. “I told you, my little friend, not all that a man does is done for gain. Believe as you wish, but even fat old fools like me have friends, and debts of affection to repay.”

Liar, thought Tyrion. There is something in this venture worth more to you than coin or castles. - Tyrion II ADWD

What are these “debts of affection” that are making Illyrio care about the Iron Throne in Westeros? To me, it’s probably the fact that Aegon is his son. There’s also another quote that implies that Illyrio has some affection for Aegon:

“There is a gift for the boy in one of the chests. Some candied ginger. He was always fond of it.” Illyrio sounded oddly sad. - Tyrion III ADWD

As for Varys being a Blackfyre, it’s possible, though I don’t think we have as much evidence, so I can’t say for sure. I’ve seen somewhere a theory that the reason he is bald is not because he’s an eunuch, but to hide silver hair, just like Egg used to do when travelling with Dunk.

 

 

not to mention the scene with the iron dragon at first it was black iron but the lord who was a targ supporter saw it as a form of support for the blackfyres but it was taken down and it went red with rust   over time like how a blackfyre under the guise of a  targ. not to mention the line about fake dragons etc

 

who barely has any targ blood left and will  not be able to ride a dragon) (and tyrion, dany ,and jon all 3 of their mothers died giving birth to them

https://hamliet.tumblr.com/post/185059524684/i-really-am-waiting-to-see-jon-react-badly-to-his

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Yeah. The whole thing about Jon and Dany’s arcs in ASOIAF is that they are, at their core, about identity, about people searching for belonging and home. Jon’s whole identity is stemming from the belief that he’s a bastard, and specifically Ned Stark’s bastard. He’s very much like Ned in a lot of ways. Daenerys’s identity is based in the belief that she’s the last Targaryen and therefore is destined to rule, but what she dreams of is the house with the red door and lemon trees. 

Finding out that both these foundations of who they are, the things that have driven many of their decisions, aren’t true is probably going to shake both of them. (Though I think Daenerys is going to have some practice with another Targaryen through f!Aegon and it won’t go well.) Plus, if Dany does set off the wildfyre and be viewed as a Mad Queen when she never intended to cause mass slaughter… well, it might make her rethink a) fire and blood, her family’s house words, and b) her desire for the Iron Throne, because she needs to think about whether she wants to be like her father or not, and the story probably isn’t going to give her both the throne and being different from him, and this isn’t a new line of thinking from me. 

As for Jon… finding out his father lied to him, Catelyn was horrible to him for false reasons, and that he’s probably Azor Ahai or the Prince who was Promised and by the way he’s been assassinated too so maybe the whole leadership thing is kind of failing, oh and that I’m nervous for Val post Jon’s death, and that people who are resurrected in ASOIAF struggle to regain humanity… well, I think Jon’s going to have an identity crisis and be in a very bad place during TWOW/early ADOS. 

 

@orderofthegreenhand

 

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Then there's the continued juxtapositions and parallels between Ned and Tywin. Both were best friends to the King and their Hand who resigned over a disagreement. Both hid a bastard from the king on the order of their loved one. Both basically ruled in the King's name. Depending on how you look at it, Tywin treated Tyrion as terrible as his other kids drawing a parallel to Ned who treated Jon pretty much the same as he could without offending Catelyn, or he treated him badly because of killing Joanna while Ned doesn't hold it against Jon.

 

Edited by silverwolf22

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, The Hoare said:

No, Jon is a bastard in any way. It's highly unlikely that Aerys would legitimise him

rhaegar and lyanna got married ( even if he didnt have his marriage to elia annulled bigamy is    not unheard of with targaryens  like with aegon 

@The Hoare

Edited by silverwolf22

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We can all just speculate at this point. There is theories that Jaime+Cersei are actually both half Lannister/half Targ, whilst Tyrion is Tywins only 'real' son, then there's the thought that its the other way with Tyrion. Then there is the popular theory that Aegon is, as you mentioned, in reality a Blackfyre and just posing as the supposedly murdered Aegon, making him fAegon.

I personally see no 100% clear proof who the third dragon is meant to be, but I'm inclined to believe that Aegon is actually really who he says he is.

Ultimately I think we will get the biggest hints from the dragons themselves who tend to show affinity to people with Targ blood as we saw with the leader of the second sons, Brown Ben Plumm. It depends now how the dragons, especially Rhaegal and Viserion, react to Tyrion and Aegon. Whoever of those is capable of befriending and mounting one of the dragons is basically confirmed targ/half-targ. Blackfyres did not have any dragons and were so far incapable of hatching dragon eggs, which doesnt necessarily mean that this is a law, but it does give a strong hint that there is a difference between Targ and Blackfyre blood, at least when it comes to hatching and controlling dragons.

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5 hours ago, silverwolf22 said:

rhaegar and lyanna got married ( even if he didnt have his marriage to elia annulled bigamy is    not unheard of with targaryens  like with aegon 

@The Hoare

We have no reason to believe in that, and even then what kind of septon would marry them?

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We know that Jon is legitimate from the fact that Ned had to fight the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy. 

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Tyrion is Tywin and Joanna's only true born son. They were both at casterley rock during that pregnancy while Aerys was at King Landing as per the Lannister apologist Yandel . Contrast that to C&J with Tywin, Joannna and Aerys all being present in Kings Landing 266/67

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20 hours ago, silverwolf22 said:

 

Jon is a True Born Targaryen who thought he was a bastard, raised by his Uncle who loved him.

Tyrion is Bastard that thought he was a True Born, raised by a Cousin who hated him.

not to mention jon being born via a consensual relationship while other people believed his father raped his mother. tyrion being born via a rape while people believed it was through a consensual relationship ( tywin and joannas relationship)

Have you read the books?

Because there is nothing in the text that you can definitively point to that proves any of this.

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19 hours ago, The Hoare said:

We have no reason to believe in that, and even then what kind of septon would marry them?

Lyanna was of the Old Faith, not a Seven-worshiper and Rhaegar was a Valyrian, following the Seven for reasons of state. They could have had some alternative sort of marriage ceremony. A septon wouldn't be necessary for that. That's could have, not definitely had, but the possibility is there. 

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1 hour ago, Light a wight tonight said:

Lyanna was of the Old Faith, not a Seven-worshiper and Rhaegar was a Valyrian, following the Seven for reasons of state. They could have had some alternative sort of marriage ceremony. A septon wouldn't be necessary for that. That's could have, not definitely had, but the possibility is there. 

This wouldn't be seen as legitimate by most westerosi

 

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