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Theon’s death?


Gingin

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Is death by execution the only possible outcome for Theon? How can he redeem himself in the eyes of the North and, most importantly, the Starks?

He has lost a lot of fingers, he can barely walk, he cannot use a bow properly: because of his injuries, he isn’t able to fight well, he cannot join the Night’s Watch nor sacrifice himself in a battle in the name of the North. I don’t think he can be forgiven for what he did and death seems the only option. Yet that “what is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger” troubles me: could it be referred to his escape from Ramsay? Or to Theon’s future in general?

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55 minutes ago, Gingin said:

Is death by execution the only possible outcome for Theon? How can he redeem himself in the eyes of the North and, most importantly, the Starks?

He has lost a lot of fingers, he can barely walk, he cannot use a bow properly: because of his injuries, he isn’t able to fight well, he cannot join the Night’s Watch nor sacrifice himself in a battle in the name of the North. I don’t think he can be forgiven for what he did and death seems the only option. Yet that “what is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger” troubles me: could it be referred to his escape from Ramsay? Or to Theon’s future in general?

The most obvious future I can see for him is being used by Asha to invalidate the Kingsmoot. Helping to defeat his evil uncle Euron could definitely give him a form of redemption. 

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The tree, the fire, Stannis's Lightbringer are possibilities meaning Theon's future is at an end. Now it is possible to extend that future to more than the immediate future if Robbett Glover and Wex Pyke are accompanying the Manderley host they could offer credence to Theon's It was millers' boys and their mother who were killed not by him but by Ramsey, in fact Rickon is alive as can be attested to by Davos on his return as Hand. The constant quorking of the ravens in the holdfast may also suggest the Bran is still alive. Given that information Stannis might less inclined to take Theon off the table and might even have thoughts of allowing a ransom by Asha for both Theon and Dagmer's Iron Men at Torhen's Square. 

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2 hours ago, Gingin said:

Is death by execution the only possible outcome for Theon? How can he redeem himself in the eyes of the North and, most importantly, the Starks?

He has lost a lot of fingers, he can barely walk, he cannot use a bow properly: because of his injuries, he isn’t able to fight well, he cannot join the Night’s Watch nor sacrifice himself in a battle in the name of the North. I don’t think he can be forgiven for what he did and death seems the only option. Yet that “what is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger” troubles me: could it be referred to his escape from Ramsay? Or to Theon’s future in general?

That's a lot of questions.  What makes you think Theon will die?  He has as much chances as anybody of coming out alive.  He's been through a lot of suffering.  It would be a pity to end his life.  Theon is the most readable point of view in the north.  Samwell and Jon are pretty dry to read.  Theon has the emotions and character changes going for him.  I am thinking he lives and rules Pyke.  

Theon doesn't have to redeem himself to the North.  They don't get to choose.  Neither did he.  He was a hostage of the Starks.  He was treated well but his life was always in danger.  Eddard would have taken his head if the Greyjoys had broken their oaths to Robert.  Theon watched the Starks rebel against Robert's heir.  So why is it so wrong for him to turn on Robb?  It wasn't.  His sin is the killing of the farmer's boys.  What he did to the Starks is easily forgivable.  

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He broke Robb’s trust, he is a turncloak and kinslayer in the eyes of the North and the North remembers: I don’t think he will be forgiven so easily if Bran and Rickon don’t magically reappear as soon as possible, before someone decides to punish him. But these are just my thoughts and even I feel conflicted about them: maybe “what is dead may never die” concerns him, maybe it isn’t referred only to his escape from Ramsay but to his possible future survival... or the contrary... or nothing at all (lol)

He might survive and overcome his sufference or he might die a horrible death since he has become a fan favourite! :D

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5 hours ago, Gingin said:

Is death by execution the only possible outcome for Theon? How can he redeem himself in the eyes of the North and, most importantly, the Starks?

I’d say he has to redeem himself for himself first. Which he’s started doing, but it’s a long process. He’s also very much in denial about some of his actions; even as late as ADwD he still thinks that he didn’t kill Bran and Rickon, those were only the miller’s sons.

But he helped Jeyne, and it would have been easy for him to go to Ramsay and spill the beans, and he didn’t. So, that counts too .

5 hours ago, Gingin said:

He has lost a lot of fingers, he can barely walk, he cannot use a bow properly: because of his injuries, he isn’t able to fight well, he cannot join the Night’s Watch nor sacrifice himself in a battle in the name of the North. I don’t think he can be forgiven for what he did and death seems the only option. Yet that “what is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger” troubles me: could it be referred to his escape from Ramsay? Or to Theon’s future in general?

I think Theon will be brought before the heart tree by Stannis, and Bran will speak through him. He will give himself up willingly for Bran to use as a vessel, thus making the process of skinchanging into a human being easier than it was with Hodor. I proposed this here back in 2011, and later posted a more detailed thread about it on reddit because I didn’t get approval for the thread here. Here’s a link, if you’re interested. 

 

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5 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I’d say he has to redeem himself for himself first. Which he’s started doing, but it’s a long process. He’s also very much in denial about some of his actions; even as late as ADwD he still thinks that he didn’t kill Bran and Rickon, those were only the miller’s sons.

But he helped Jeyne, and it would have been easy for him to go to Ramsay and spill the beans, and he didn’t. So, that counts too .

I think Theon will be brought before the heart tree by Stannis, and Bran will speak through him. He will give himself up willingly for Bran to use as a vessel, thus making the process of skinchanging into a human being easier than it was with Hodor. I proposed this here back in 2011, and later posted a more detailed thread about it on reddit because I didn’t get approval for the thread here. Here’s a link, if you’re interested. 

 

I agree about Theon becoming Bran's vessel. It woulg take practically divine intervention to save Theon at this juncture and this is it. It is also a culmination in many ways of his arc. And what Theon tells the hooded man that the gods are not done with him. 

I think however, it will be as pleasant for Theon as it is for Hodor. It is not coincidence that his qualification is to bear suffering. It will also force Bran to cofront what he is doing to Hodor. 

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21 hours ago, Gingin said:

Is death by execution the only possible outcome for Theon? How can he redeem himself in the eyes of the North and, most importantly, the Starks?

Why does he need to redeem himself in the eyes of the North? to Starks, maybe, but why the North?

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I really think the only way for Theon to get out of dying is if Jeyne sincerely begs Stannis to spare him. But it's still Stannis, and he's already decided he'll be executed. No idea what would even come of his afterwards if he is spared. 

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39 minutes ago, Gingin said:

He is considered a turncloak and kinslayer

Both are wrong though. He was a Stark hostage and neither Bran nor Rickon were his brothers.

I bet that the ironborn would see him as a turncloak if he decided to side with the North agains't his own family

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3 minutes ago, The Hoare said:

Both are wrong though. He was a Stark hostage and neither Bran nor Rickon were his brothers.

I bet that the ironborn would see him as a turncloak if he decided to side with the North agains't his own family

Indeed, but unless the North is given proof that Bran and Rickon Stark are alive, Theon can be punished. They aren’t his brothers but for what I have understood he is considered a kinslayer since he grew up with them... 

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6 minutes ago, The Hoare said:

Both are wrong though. He was a Stark hostage and neither Bran nor Rickon were his brothers.

I bet that the ironborn would see him as a turncloak if he decided to side with the North agains't his own family

The definition of a turncloak is changing sides during a war. He first fought for the Starks, then the Iron born, then for the Boltons, then turned on them. It is not contingent on the reasons, only on the fact that he changed sides. Which he's done three times by now. He is three times a turncloak. 

It is not like he's shown any loyalty to the Ironborn, even before Ramsay got to work on him. He worked for his own glory from day one, to the detriment of the Iron Islands, leaving a beloved figure from his childhood to act as decoy for him, leading up to the murder of men under his command to cover up for his fraud. 

And the excuse for not being a kinslayer is that the children, he did order the murder off to save face, were not relared to him? That's it? Really? 

The scorn heaped on Theon is very richly deserved. 

 

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4 hours ago, Gingin said:

 Indeed, but unless the North is given proof that Bran and Rickon Stark are alive, Theon can be punished. They aren’t his brothers but for what I have understood he is considered a kinslayer since he grew up with them... 

Won't Robbett Glover and Wex Pyke's if they are part of Manderley's host witness be enough for the northmen following Stannis as to Theon's lack of culpability .

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5 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

And the excuse for not being a kinslayer is that the children, he did order the murder off to save face, were not relared to him? That's it? Really? 

Yes. You can't be a kinslayer if you don't slay your kin.

5 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

The definition of a turncloak is changing sides during a war. He first fought for the Starks, then the Iron born, then for the Boltons, then turned on them.

He was a captive by both Starks and Boltons. Can you truly blame a hostage for doing what his "master" commands?

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