Argonath Diver Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Hah, that I see what you're getting it, sure I see that as well. I have trouble differentiating the books style or pacing since I binge them all together so rapidly, like 1.5 books a day for 2 weeks. Butcher makes me unhealthy. Anyways my apologies for the snark, I honestly re-read your post a dozen times to try to sort it; now that I re-read I understand it. Cheers and where's this book! I have so many theories to be squashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 The sixth and final Peace Talks preview chapter is now live, with 7 days to go until we can read on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASOIAFrelatedusername Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 Screw that cliffhanger Spoiler But seriously, I really hope that villains threatening Maggie does not become a regular occurence in the books. It is clear that she is not going to die, so it is just a cheap and artificial attempt to inject tension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 I'm really looking forward to more Formor. I've always liked them as a replacement for the Red Court. They're the mooks and mid-level villains of the setting but they do such a good job. I also like the equating of the Deep Ones and HPL's work with the ancient enemies of the Celtic Tuatha De Daanan. It also makes sense if the Formor are playing around with Outsiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston de Foix Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 14 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said: I'm really looking forward to more Formor. I've always liked them as a replacement for the Red Court. They're the mooks and mid-level villains of the setting but they do such a good job. I also like the equating of the Deep Ones and HPL's work with the ancient enemies of the Celtic Tuatha De Daanan. It also makes sense if the Formor are playing around with Outsiders. CT, since you have read Peace Talks (you lucky so and so) did you form any (non-spoiler) impressions on the quality of prose compared to the prior novels? And where would you put it in your rankings of Dresden novels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 15 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said: CT, since you have read Peace Talks (you lucky so and so) did you form any (non-spoiler) impressions on the quality of prose compared to the prior novels? And where would you put it in your rankings of Dresden novels? I don't think that Jim Butcher has lost any of his verve. It feels like classic Dresden and pretty much comes directly off the events of SKIN GAME. I didn't much care for SG but I think this is probably my favorite book since Changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston de Foix Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 Has anyone gotten their copy yet apart from CT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 Sadly I've gotta wait a few more days for the ebook, doesn't feel like a good time to be making lots of trips to go trawling through bookshops to get it early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 I plan to post my review the moment it hits midnight and turns the 14th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston de Foix Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 12 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said: I plan to post my review the moment it hits midnight and turns the 14th. It's going to be the 14th in Japan in 4 minutes... I think we should start a new thread to discuss Peace Talk Spoilers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 My copy of Peace Talks just downloaded, it's time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston de Foix Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Finished. I have THOUGHTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 http://booknest.eu/reviews/charles/1955-peacetalks My review of the book if anyone wants to check it out. 4.5 out of 5. I think I hate the Formor than any other villain in fantasy save the Freys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston de Foix Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Spoiler Good review, CT. I agree with you on most everything I found the confrontation between Blackstaff and Dresden desperately sad. I also found it somewhat uncharacteristic for Blackstaff who after all knew his daughter was in a relationship with Raith. And I couldn't understand why Harry wouldn't level with his mentor and grandfather about what was going on. The book suffers a little from a slow start and by my estimate we get to about 60% of the book just reconnecting to characters and being reminded of what came before. And then the book ends abruptly just when things get exciting again. For that reason I wouldn't say this is the best book since Changes, but definitely it's the most important book since Changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 7 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said: http://booknest.eu/reviews/charles/1955-peacetalks My review of the book if anyone wants to check it out. 4.5 out of 5. I think I hate the Formor than any other villain in fantasy save the Freys. I disagree strongly with you on your ship choices but otherwise I tend to agree with your review, though I'd rate Peace Talks probably at a 3.5 or something. You're especially right on the money about Butters. 2 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said: Hide contents Good review, CT. I agree with you on most everything I found the confrontation between Blackstaff and Dresden desperately sad. I also found it somewhat uncharacteristic for Blackstaff who after all knew his daughter was in a relationship with Raith. And I couldn't understand why Harry wouldn't level with his mentor and grandfather about what was going on. The book suffers a little from a slow start and by my estimate we get to about 60% of the book just reconnecting to characters and being reminded of what came before. And then the book ends abruptly just when things get exciting again. For that reason I wouldn't say this is the best book since Changes, but definitely it's the most important book since Changes. Spoiler Yeah I don't think this is the best book for sure. I was disappointed that so little of it was the actual "peace talks" - I'd have liked to have seen much more of the people and politics in that room, and while presumably we'll see more of them interacting in Battle Ground I think the diplomatic soiree was a unique and wasted setting. The actual plot itself took so long to warm up and there are so many hanging threads that it's very difficult to assess what I think of it except that (right now at least) all the stuff with Thomas felt really extraneous. Though, frankly, the whole thing felt a little disjoined - harsly cut together with all these jumps between scenes with little to no lead-in/lead-out which meant that it just didn't flow for me the way previous Dresden books have. I suspect this is a casualty of Butcher having to do a hatchet job on his original draft of Peace Talks in order to turn it in to 2 books which really seems to have made the book suffer; I'd much preferred they released a single chunky tome, which likely wouldn't even have hit anywhere close to the size of some fantasy books I own (looking at you Sanderson) so especially given that the story and pacing has suffered for it the splitting of the book seems a bit... cynical? it's not a decision I'm happy with anyway and just just because I now have to wait a few months for Battle Ground. I suppose that's an opinion I'll review after I've read it. There were plenty of interesting revelations, particularly about Mab which I'm sure will fuel fan speculation for a while. I don't really like essentially using Mab (and Ferrovax a bit too) as Worf - someone powerful who can get their ass kicked to establish the threat level of the villain of the week. I mean it certainly makes an impression but it didn't really sit right with me - Butcher has long established how powerful and scary these beings are (Odin too) and just went and completely upturned that. It doesn't really make the Formor and their Titan ally seem more dangerous, but rather makes me question the foundations of the world/dresdenverse, makes all these supposedly mighty powers seem so much less, especially considering it seems that she really is just the villain of the week and it's more-or-less guaranteed that (though likely at great cost) the titan and her Formor allies will be defeated by the end of Battle Ground. @C.T. Phipps' comments about Butters are pretty much spot on. Butters is a character I really want to like but the ever rising levels of nerd wish-fulfilment with him are... there are rising cringe levels. I particularly don't like seeing Andi reduced to window dressing for his fantasy life. One of the biggest questions I have from the book actually is about Molly. I didn't question it too much at the time and we didn't see her too much since but now I'm really left wondering how it was allowed to happen that she could made in to the Winter Lady against her will. Her mortal free will seems to have been majorly subverted and that too flies in the face of what we've been told time and again about the state, laws even of the dresdenverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Some good thoughts: I've felt that the Dresden Files have been kind of "off" what I love about the series from CHANGES with GHOST STORY, COLD DAYS, and SKIN GAME all being "eh" for me because they were all dealing with the fallout of Changes so much. I'm really here for the Harry as a private investigator sort of deal and while Skin Game had "heist" story as a decent set up, it rapidly changed into "Dungeon Crawl." The fact he was isolated on his island for years, dead, or living with the fae hurt his relationships too. Peace Talks felt much better given that Harry was once more living in Chicago and having relationships with the people he knew. I also felt like his plan to rescue Thomas was a suitably "Harry-esque" story that was small-stakes enough to ground the larger metaplot around. The confrontation between Ebenezer and Harry was an iconic moment of the series because it reminded me a bit of Worf vs. the Jem'Hadar: "I cannot beat him, I can only kill him now." I think there's some definite, "This exists solely for the plot to move forward." I can buy Harry not saying, "No, I'm not sleeping with Lara Raith" because he's just proud and thick headed enough to be sick of people distrusting him after all the shit he's done for them. However, there's no reason he wouldn't ask Thomas why he did what he did or tell Ebenezer about Thomas earlier. I believe that Ebenezer didn't think Thomas was his grandson for the same reason we can assume Ebenezer doesn't think Harry is boning Lara. He is disgusted by vampires and thinks his descendants are better than that. I don't mind Ethinu's OP nature because I am assuming this plays into the nature of the Black Council/Nemesis/Outsider business. Odin has to give up most of his power when he's on Earth and the other gods have pulled back from it. Ethinu is breaking her oath to not-intefere established in the Dresden File RPG. Also, if you actually listen to her speech (I don't think a lot of fans did) she's saying that she's here to get the fae off Earth before its destroyed. This is what a god is like when it's all out and going all out. Still, I don't mind that Ethinu is like Grandmother Winter who we knew was way more powerful than Mab. I also totally believe Justine is Black Council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston de Foix Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Spoiler @Poobah 1. I suspect the division of the books into 2 was almost certainly a financial request from the publishers that Butcher made. It's striking to me that he tweeted out a petition to release Battle Ground simultaneously with Peace Talks (obv, this never happened despite my-all powerful signature). I agree that it has left Peace Talks lopsided, unfinished and with loads of loose ends. That said, I'm sure the book will sell very well. 2. So I actually disliked the Mab as Merlin's lover/Nimue storyline more than the introduction of the Titan. I agree her ability to knock out Mab and Ferrovax was a bit out of left field but as CT observes it is established that there are more powerful beings than Mab out there. The problem is that it is also established that they are much more constrained in their abilities to influence the mortal world. So why isn't the Titan constrained? And why didn't the guy who gave up his eye for foresight see this coming or at least ask the logical question in the aftermath? I do agree a "protogod" fitting into the mythology of Dresdenverse is weird, particularly a non-Greek Titan. 3. Agreed the Butters menage-a-trois was cringe-inducing. There's a longer conversation to be had about Butcher writing from women POV and about women and sex, starting with the Bombshells short story. 4. Molly's free will may have been subverted as you say. I think Butcher would say she chose to be influenced by Sidhe and to be in the wrong place at the wrong time to have inherited the winter mantle. And to be continued that position against her will, well I think we will eventually find out she can give up the mantle through a specific ritual. @C.T. Phipps 5. Thanks for the headsup about the Dresden Files RPG I will go read it. I agree Nemesis is the most compelling explanation for her behavior which is a lot like Aurora's in Summer Knight. 6. I'll take the bet on Justine. Beyond Cristos, I think it's Chandler who is Black Council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASOIAFrelatedusername Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 My (unstructured) thoughts having just finished it Spoiler - The book is rather which is a bit of a disappointment after such a long wait. I get that we will get the next one in just a few months, but still. Nevertheless it was still very entertaining and ended at a satisfactory point. I just wish that we spent a bit more time on the actual peace talks and on Harry's interaction with the White Council - There also was not enough Bonnie and Maggie in this book - Butters is way to much of a nerd wishfulfillment and it makes me wonder if Butcher is setting him up for a horrific death and I kind of wish that Butcher does kill him though I feel bad about it. He is a candidate where it would certainly hurt Harry, but not completely destroy him. - Harry's and Ebenezar's confrontation was for me the highlight of the book - Molly's situation becomes more and more worrying, but I am really looking forward how that is going to develop. - I am curious what the deal with Mab's former lover was. Possibly there are some interesting parallels between her relationship with Merlin(?) and Harry's relationship with Molly (which will hopefully stay onesided) - I have no specific feelings about the Ethniu thing, though I am looking forward to seeing a battle on a much much larger scale than before - But most of all I am just happy that Harry and Murphy finally becomes official and that is True Love. Screw you, haters and doubters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Ethniu's speech is what I think probably contains a lot more insights than we're getting. She talks at length about how the divine are wasting themselves on Earth and implies that she thinks humanity is doomed. Bob has mentioned that the Dresden Files universe is a multiverse and Spider-Man exists in one of them, which implies that Ethinu and the other divine beings have other places to go than this reality. I also think we're meant to believe an Elder God intervening like she's doing is VERY MUCH against the rules. Given the Outsiders are launching a massive attack on the Outer Gates, I believe we're also meant to believe that the Formor are on Team Outsider or allied with them. It should be noted that Team Outsider is not Team Hell as Nicodemus is actually against the Outsiders according to Jim Butcher (and also that his offer to work with Harry against them was as sincere as a monster like him could make it). This makes sense because the Fomor are less Celtic monsters and more the Deep Ones w/ a Celtic flair. Also, Strange Minds Think AlikeTV. The third book in my Esoterrorism series has Balor show up as a Godzilla-like monster that breaks the Masquerade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Repeating my thoughts from the general reading thread I have to say as a standalone book I think Peace Talks is fairly disappointing. It really does feel like half a book with pretty much none of the plot lines brought up being resolved. It's only a couple of months until Battle Ground comes out though so it's not too bad. Spoiler On the Butters stuff up to this book I've been fine with it. The Jedi Knight stuff was a bit over the top but that's not unusual for this series and it was fun and I don't mind him getting a girlfriend. He's a nice guy why not? The Marci stuff was very cringe inducing though and I'd rather all we saw of his relationship with Andi wasn't just her wandering in and out of his bedroom. Some other general thoughts: The Fomor all of a sudden being powerful enough to take on all the other signatories of the Accords seems like a big jump (they're all depicted as being rough equal in power up to this point). I hope there's a reason behind it beyond 'they were all along, it's just nobody noticed'. If they were this powerful I'm not sure why the Red Court being wiped out would have made any difference. The thread left hanging that most annoys me is why Thomas attacked Etri. That seems like a big deal to me that's mostly being ignored by Dresden and Lara. Probably what I'm most interested in is what's going on with Molly. I suspect that's something that's going to be left for a later book though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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