C.T. Phipps Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: You keep focusing on Molly. It’s Harry’s side that concerns almost everyone. Molly is the person who wants the relationship. She's also the one who is Harry's boss now. But I'll stop now. Murphy is probably the endgame anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 5, 2020 Author Share Posted August 5, 2020 8 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said: Molly is the person who wants the relationship. She's also the one who is Harry's boss now. But I'll stop now. Murphy is probably the endgame anyway. And Harry does not, for very good reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASOIAFrelatedusername Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 12 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said: She's also the one who is Harry's boss now. That does not make it better. If anything, it makes it worse considering that the fairy queens hold significant power of their knights (see Maeve and Slate in Summer Knight) and considering that he as of Peace Talks owns her a rather substantial favor that Molly needs to collect on... Granted that would be uncharacteristically dark for Butcher, but I can not help but wonder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 I'm confused about the comparison to Luccio. When was she Harry's teacher as a teenager, again? A better comparison would be Justin wanting a relationship with Harry. Imagine that rather than betraying Harry, Justin was a decent teacher and Harry has grown up under his tutelage and is now an adult. Would it be ok for Justin to pursue a relationship with Harry if Harry wanted it? To me, it would he as icky and ethically questionable as this scenario between Molly and Harry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 5 hours ago, fionwe1987 said: I'm confused about the comparison to Luccio. When was she Harry's teacher as a teenager, again? A better comparison would be Justin wanting a relationship with Harry. Imagine that rather than betraying Harry, Justin was a decent teacher and Harry has grown up under his tutelage and is now an adult. Would it be ok for Justin to pursue a relationship with Harry if Harry wanted it? To me, it would he as icky and ethically questionable as this scenario between Molly and Harry. If Justin came back from the dead and Harry were gay then, yes, there would nothing wrong with it. Harry is an adult now. He's had decades of experience between his time with Justin and now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maia Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 On 5 August 2020 at 12:45 AM, C.T. Phipps said: Probably because 30 is a perfectly good time to illustrate when it's ridiculous to hold a woman's past relationships against her. Molly hasn't been Harry's student for years, wasn't his student that long, and is presumably by that time to be in control of her emotions (which is a pretty sexist idea that she's not anyway). We HAVE an example of how fans treat things VERY differently between sexes. Because Luccio and Harry are never given the same treatment by fans despite: * Luccio being Harry's boss * Luccio being centuries older than Harry * Luccio being Harry's mentor in the Wardens. * Luccio having vast more knowledge than Harry. I think if Harry/Luccio was okay then certainly Molly and Harry can be. I hated Harry/Luccio for all the reasons you list and, of course, it was eventually revealed that it took mind-control to make her do it. I also find it regrettable that Harry has to have sexual/romantic tension with most somewhat prominent female characters and that they get unceremoniously shuffled off the stage once it is done with. Murphy is pretty much marked for death in BG anyway. BTW, looking at Dresden files re-read, I stumbled on Butcher's proclamation that none of the other Carpenter kids are magical because Charity stopped practicing magic and consequently lost her talent before their conception. But I thought from the previous books and short stories that there are "muggleborn" wizards in this world? Like that kid from the zoo. And some practitioners who start later in life, like that Wiccan group? Anyway, it would have been interesting if we saw younger talents coming up and some of them being Carpenters would have been suitably dramatic and fun. Particularly if they tried to ignore their gift because of Charity and general unwillingness to sacrifice technology or fight monsters, but it just wouldn't go away. I like the theory that Butters will use his sword's special powers to kill Thomas's Hunger and that now fully human Thomas will become the bearer of Amorrachius. Since Butcher clearly only wants the guys is knights of the Cross, given how he treated Murphy in this regard, it might as well be him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 18 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said: If Justin came back from the dead and Harry were gay then, yes, there would nothing wrong with it. Harry is an adult now. He's had decades of experience between his time with Justin and now. Once again, you focus on the student in the relationship. Harry can be in love with Justin all he wants, as can Molly be in love with Harry. No one is questioning that. I'm asking you if it would by okay for this hypothetical good guy, gay, Justin to seek to pursue a relationship with Harry. The answer is no. Teachers wanting a relationship with former students is icky, because they know, or should know, that the start of the attraction was at a time of enormous power imbalance. Especially in mentorships that are as close as we see with Wizards in Dresdenverse, you know a whole lot about your student's psychology and that only makes the whole thing more gross to contemplate. The closest real world correlate is a PhD student and their mentor. That's the kind of long, deep interaction a wizard and their apprentice have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 I'm so excited for Battle Ground. I really hope its able to live up to the hype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 4 hours ago, C.T. Phipps said: I'm so excited for Battle Ground. I really hope its able to live up to the hype. Tbh, I think the hype existed before Peace Talks. Now there's hope that BG can rescue it, but I'm personally not holding out much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASOIAFrelatedusername Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 I also do not have much hope that the dangling and underdeveloped plotthreads from Peace Talks are going to be resolved satisfactorily in what should amount a giant battle. Spoiler It would be ridiculous if Rudolph and the police continues to harass Harry and Murphy while the city is under attack for example. Or for Harry to launch an investigation into Thomas' possible motives. Or for the WC to put Harry on trial. What suprises me is that BG is going to have more pages than PT (according to Amazon) even though it was only supposed to be the final battle in the original version. And I worry that either the battle itself will be extremly drawn out or Butcher shoves a bunch of sideplots in it that really do not have any place there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fionwe1987 Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 6 hours ago, ASOIAFrelatedusername said: I also do not have much hope that the dangling and underdeveloped plotthreads from Peace Talks are going to be resolved satisfactorily in what should amount a giant battle. Hide contents It would be ridiculous if Rudolph and the police continues to harass Harry and Murphy while the city is under attack for example. Or for Harry to launch an investigation into Thomas' possible motives. Or for the WC to put Harry on trial. What suprises me is that BG is going to have more pages than PT (according to Amazon) even though it was only supposed to be the final battle in the original version. And I worry that either the battle itself will be extremly drawn out or Butcher shoves a bunch of sideplots in it that really do not have any place there. My biggest concern is that the "urgent" battle from the end of PT loses its urgency at the start of BG for the other plot threads to resolve, and makes the whole thing even more stupid. Like, I could see Harry and Murphy deciding to go to the Chicago government with some version of the truth to get them to evacuate citizens. And perhaps Rudy will make things difficult, which is why he was introduced. And then the Council maybe gets pissy that Harry involved the regular human government, and that mixes with the earlier Council plot against him. The thing is, they just have 12-16 hours for all this to go down before the invasion happens. It's going to be a mighty silly timeline to have civilian discovery of the magical world, and Harry's denouement with the Council, play in such a short time. I'd imagine a single book wouldn't have necessitated Ethniu's rather dramatically stupid timeline. It's a hook that was necessitated by the book being split, but not one which makes much sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted August 8, 2020 Share Posted August 8, 2020 6 hours ago, ASOIAFrelatedusername said: I also do not have much hope that the dangling and underdeveloped plotthreads from Peace Talks are going to be resolved satisfactorily in what should amount a giant battle. Hide contents It would be ridiculous if Rudolph and the police continues to harass Harry and Murphy while the city is under attack for example. Or for Harry to launch an investigation into Thomas' possible motives. Or for the WC to put Harry on trial. What suprises me is that BG is going to have more pages than PT (according to Amazon) even though it was only supposed to be the final battle in the original version. And I worry that either the battle itself will be extremly drawn out or Butcher shoves a bunch of sideplots in it that really do not have any place there. I predict the battle will not be that long and then everything else will be the fallout from the battle. For example, I predict Murphy will go into the police and Rudolph will be cowering on the ground. I see this as the end of the Masquerade in the setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poobah Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Official Trailer for Battle Ground: Really hoping Battle Ground manages to salvage something out of the shitshow that was Peace Talks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASOIAFrelatedusername Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 Eh. I have to say that I liked the Peace Talks trailer more. Probably because there was some mystery surrounding the plot and the characters, whereas here we already know what is going on and even what Harry plans to do. And Peace Talks' lackluster quality probably did not help. The only real things that intrigued me were Spoiler a) the question of who the man at 1:19 is b) Molly's eyes. It appears as if she make a very large step or even cross the line towards becomming fully Sidhe, especially with the "each of the divine here must chose" line being played over it . On the bright side that might discourage the shipping of her and Harry (wishful thinking really). Also on a positive note the trailer gives no indication that Spoiler Murphy might die. Overall I am still rather pessimistice. Peace Talks desperately needed at least another of editing and rewriting and that was supposed the completed book before BG was split off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston de Foix Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 1 hour ago, ASOIAFrelatedusername said: The only real things that intrigued me were Reveal hidden contents a) the question of who the man at 1:19 is b) Molly's eyes. It appears as if she make a very large step or even cross the line towards becomming fully Sidhe, especially with the "each of the divine here must chose" line being played over it . On the bright side that might discourage the shipping of her and Harry (wishful thinking really). Spoiler The man at 1.19 is Marcone. Watch with subtitles on, he's identified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston de Foix Posted September 7, 2020 Share Posted September 7, 2020 On 8/8/2020 at 5:28 PM, C.T. Phipps said: I predict the battle will not be that long and then everything else will be the fallout from the battle. Spoiler I think the battle will be extended, and in stages. Assassinating Ethniu will be the only way to win and save Chicago. Btw, was the Ebenezar standing with Harry and Ramirez in the battle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 Whatever supports Molly and Harry, I support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASOIAFrelatedusername Posted September 8, 2020 Share Posted September 8, 2020 6 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said: Hide contents The man at 1.19 is Marcone. Watch with subtitles on, he's identified. Spoiler I am talking about the man Harry attacks with green magic. That is definitely not Marcone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaston de Foix Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 On 9/8/2020 at 1:21 AM, ASOIAFrelatedusername said: Reveal hidden contents I am talking about the man Harry attacks with green magic. That is definitely not Marcone Spoiler Oh I see. It was a blink and you missed it moment. I think Chandler by a process of elimination/inference. Is he described as bearded or simply mustachoied in PT? Folks the first two chapters of BG are online as I only discovered today: https://www.tor.com/2020/09/01/read-the-first-two-chapters-from-battle-ground-jim-butchers-new-dresden-files-book/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASOIAFrelatedusername Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 26 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said: Reveal hidden contents Oh I see. It was a blink and you missed it moment. I think Chandler by a process of elimination/inference. Is he described as bearded or simply mustachoied in PT? Spoiler Chandler is described as having a "thick, fierce Freddie Mercury mustache", so I am not sure. Chandler also wears a bowler hat and his suit is "Camel-colored". Furthermore his eyes are "cobalt-blue". Lastly, the man appears to be holding a gun with no sign of a more wizardy weapon. I do not think that it is Chandler. I mean it could just be a random henchman without significance (and it probably is), but then there is the question of his employer and why Harry appears to attack him with quite deadly looking magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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