UK Politics: Another vote, just not for anyone who might change their minds

[Varysblackfyre321]

On 6/20/2019 at 9:47 AM, Werthead said:

He's called Muslim women "letter boxes." He's (quite angrily) called investigations into historic sex abuse cases "a waste of money." He's repeatedly described Africans in inferior terms, using racist terminology and saying they have "watermelon smiles." He has said it would fine for the former European colonial powers to take back control of their African colonies. In his editorial roles, he has permitted the posting of articles praising eugenics. He described the entire nation of Papua New Guinea as taking part in orgies of cannibalism and ritual killings. He called the President of Turkey an actual goatfucker. He has said that speed limit laws are a waste of time.

So far he has not put forward a policy comparable to banning Muslims, but he has made it clear he has no respect or time for them. Calling the population of an entire nation cannibals and the President of an ally (however highly unreliable) a serial sexual abuser of goats is certainly comparable to the Mexicans as rapists thing.

I don't think Boris is as outrightly stupid as Trump, but I think he is dangerous in another direction, of being blase, reckless and heedless of the consequences, as he is a traditional Tory in that the word "consequences" means nothing to him, as he knows if everything goes really badly wrong with Brexit, he can move to the United States and live off the speaking circuit for the rest of his days with no problem whatsoever.

Sigh, don’t you understand, he doesn’t call himself a racist therefore he’s not racist? No one in any position of power advocates bigotry against non-caucasians. Just because he repeatedly uses racial slurs and argues for extremely racist things, doesn’t make him racist. But welcome to 2019, where a man can’t even say he supports eugenics without looking like a racist. Truly we’ve become too PC.

I’m kidding.

[A wilding]

7 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

This really is a non-story. By the way, the neighbour, in an attempt to clear his own name, has bizarrely tried to do so by making it quite clear that he was a Remain voter.

Yep, no ulterior motives whatsoever.

I will pass over the reduction of multiple neighbours to one and that "clear his own name".

But sadly, this spin, blaming it all on the messengers and giving Johnson himself a free pass, is not just being said on the internet, but being echoed by the right wing press.

It feels like we have crossed a line and reached a new low. No matter what Johnson does, his supporters will ignore, excuse or justify it, while instead pouring venom on those who brought it to light. The hostile attention of papers like Murdoch's Sun can and has destroyed lives, so this will have the probably intentional effect of deterring others from speaking out.

We are getting more like the US all the time.

[Heartofice]

Plenty of good valid reasons to criticise Boris. Firstly that he’s grossly incompetent, doesn’t care and is an ego maniac.

Also plenty of tenuous reasons that make his critics look silly and feed his supporters 

[Varysblackfyre321]

3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Plenty of good valid reasons to criticise Boris. Firstly that he’s grossly incompetent, doesn’t care and is an ego maniac.

Also plenty of tenuous reasons that make his critics look silly and feed his supporters 

Got it. Don’t criticize the guy who says or does bigoted things for being bigoted or ever discuss instances that may show him possibly having issues dealing with women.

Else his supporters are going to be looked at as more credible.

[Heartofice]

2 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Got it. Don’t criticize the guy who says or does bigoted things for being bigoted or ever discuss instances that may show him possibly having issues dealing with women.

Else his supporters are going to be looked at as more credible.

Nope, unsurprising interpretation of what I said though.

[Varysblackfyre321]

13 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Nope, unsurprising interpretation of what I said though.

What other interpretation could there be? You’ve so far bemoaned people calling Boris like Trump-disregarding all the indefensibly racist shit he’s done and said-as totally unfair. And have gotten offended that a domestic dispute that may indicate him being physically violent with his partner was covered at all with the only justification being the woman didn’t press charges so, he definitely didn’t do anything. 

[Heartofice]

43 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

What other interpretation could there be? You’ve so far bemoaned people calling Boris like Trump-disregarding all the indefensibly racist shit he’s done and said-as totally unfair. And have gotten offended that a domestic dispute that may indicate him being physically violent with his partner was covered at all with the only justification being the woman didn’t press charges so, he definitely didn’t do anything. 

What I’m saying is that there is a lot of evidence that Boris is simply bad at his job and seems to fluster around making it up as he goes along. Look at the quotes of people who’ve worked with him. You can also spend time criticising his position on Brexit which is also deeply muddled.

The rest of it is pretty unclear and possibly irrelevant. A few poor choices of words taken out of context and an argument that nobody saw with his girlfriend is really pretty tenuous stuff. As soon as you start digging in the gutter for these things you come up stinking of shit, so it doesn’t help you.

[Varysblackfyre321]

53 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

The rest of it is pretty unclear and possibly irrelevant. A few poor choices of words taken out of context and an argument that nobody saw with his girlfriend is really pretty tenuous stuff.

What exactly is the context for arguing for  the idea that it would best for Africa Britain and other European power reattempted colonialism there, calling a middle-eastern man goat fucker, and saying blacks have watermelon smiles and using racial slurs to describe them? 

And, no how the man sees certain demographics are not irrelevant to the discussion of if he should have a position of leadership in government.

Seriously what context could you ascribe to this: 

The continent may be a blot, but it is not a blot upon our conscience. The problem is not that we were once in charge, but that we are not in charge any more,” he wrote. “The best fate for Africa would be if the old colonial powers, or their citizens, scrambled once again in her direction; on the understanding that this time they will not be asked to feel guilty.”

 

That could possibly make this sound better? 

And ab argument that had broken furniture and holes in walls, and a woman telling Boris to get off her.  But no, nothing worth news coverage-just a possible domestic abuse case concerning a man who has a high position in government. It should’ve been Ignored since no charges were filed. 

53 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

What I’m saying is that there is a lot of evidence that Boris is simply bad at his job and seems to fluster around making it up as he goes along. Look at the quotes of people who’ve worked with him. You can also spend time criticising his position on Brexit which is also deeply muddled.

Yes. You can also criticize him for being a bigot. You really do seem to hate almost whenever a politician or a public is criticized for being just that no matter the action that they are critiqued for taking. 

[Heartofice]

The context being that Boris wrote as a columnist in a magazine and was known for attempting humour and provocation in his pieces. I don’t find him funny or think his writing is any good but I also don’t believe he is calling for the literal return to colony. The words he uses tend to be in the context of the piece he’s writing as well, and using colonial language to evoke colonial imagery as a dig at the queen or Tony Blair might be offensive to you but it doesn’t seem to bother the majority of the country.

The more the press concentrates on this stuff the less it talks about the genuinely disturbing element of Boris’ career, that he’s been a bit of a disaster wherever he’s gone and outside of making a few jokes and doing speeches, doesn’t seem to have any discernible talent.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Just now, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Seriously what context could you ascribe to this: 

I feel dirty doing this. However for calling Erdogan a goat fucker, there was a context.

That was in the aftermath of the Böhmermann affiar.

Quick recap.

German comedy show Extra 3 made fun of Erdogan with a song.

Erdogan took offense, called in the German ambassador to Turkey and demanded Merkel taking.

Böhmermann jumped into the debate in his late show, made a purposely insulting poem to show the difference between satire and insults.

Erdogan sued Böhmermann in a German court on some outdated law, which simply had never been abolished. (Böhmermann won his case btw). And the real issue was the weak response of the German goverment, and them not jumping in to protect the freedom of speech within Germany against that ottoman autocrat.

Entry Johnson, jumping on the bandwagon. Publishing his own Erdogan goat fucker poem.

 

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

 

The context being that Boris wrote as a columnist in a magazine and was known for attempting humour and provocation in his pieces. I don’t find him funny or think his writing is any good but I also don’t believe he is calling for the literal return to colony. The words he uses tend to be in the context of the piece he’s writing as well, and using colonial language to evoke colonial imagery as a dig at the queen or Tony Blair might be offensive to you but it doesn’t seem to bother the majority of the country

 

“It’s all a joke man” 

You really do stretch yourself. You believe he doesn’t believe colonialism was good thing even though his actual words on the subject show he absolutely does because...he wrote he believed it was good in a magazine.

That he’s known to try to to be provocative and humorous. You know a person could still be those things-and actually be capable expressing a genuine sentiment right? Like  Bill is clearly anti-Trump and his rhetoric concerning him can’t always be discounted or always excused by virtue of him being provocative or humorous. Nor should it be seen as an iron-clad defense for when he clearly and genuinely advocates for a  deplorable idea or whatever he says a deplorable thing.  

If you actually have evidence his expressed opinion here wasn’t genuine in this instance please actually show it. Because you’re excuse of “it’s just comedy bro” is really lacking. 

Seriously, you might as well say Voltaire harsh  words concerning Christianity or slavery don’t really show his true thoughts because he was known to be both provocative and humorous.  

 

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

The more the press concentrates on this stuff the less it talks about the genuinely disturbing element of Boris’ career, that he’s been a bit of a disaster wherever he’s gone and outside of making a few jokes and doing speeches, doesn’t seem to have any discernible talent.

So yeah Ignore, the racial slurs, arguments for colonialism and racist descriptions of non-white groups-it’s always automatically not genuine. 

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

39 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

I feel dirty doing this. However for calling Erdogan a goat fucker, there was a context.

That was in the aftermath of the Böhmermann affiar.

Quick recap.

German comedy show Extra 3 made fun of Erdogan with a song.

Erdogan took offense, called in the German ambassador to Turkey and demanded Merkel taking.

Böhmermann jumped into the debate in his late show, made a purposely insulting poem to show the difference between satire and insults.

Erdogan sued Böhmermann in a German court on some outdated law, which simply had never been abolished. (Böhmermann won his case btw). And the real issue was the weak response of the German goverment, and them not jumping in to protect the freedom of speech within Germany against that ottoman autocrat.

Entry Johnson, jumping on the bandwagon. Publishing his own Erdogan goat fucker poem.

 

 

Noted.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

34 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Noted.

Small addition to what I said.

The entire Böhmermann affair has a wikipedia article. With an overview of the events.

Original Extra 3 song, that started off the entire affair back then (English subs)

But enough of this frankly old news.

[mormont]

15 hours ago, Heartofice said:

What I’m saying is that there is a lot of evidence that Boris is simply bad at his job and seems to fluster around making it up as he goes along. Look at the quotes of people who’ve worked with him. You can also spend time criticising his position on Brexit which is also deeply muddled.

The rest of it is pretty unclear and possibly irrelevant. A few poor choices of words taken out of context and an argument that nobody saw with his girlfriend is really pretty tenuous stuff. As soon as you start digging in the gutter for these things you come up stinking of shit, so it doesn’t help you.

The first paragraph is perfectly true, but the second is nonsense. It's absolutely clear that Johnson is racist, homophobic and a bigot: it's absolutely clear that he has a record of very poor behaviour in his personal life of which this latest incident, which was witnessed (and yes, overhearing it counts), is merely the last in a long line. There is a common theme between the two, as well - Johnson is simply arrogant, and it leads to both his incompetence, laziness and grasping ambition as a politician as well has his poor treatment of others in his private life.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

On 6/22/2019 at 12:34 AM, BigFatCoward said:

I was on the way to the pub. So never got to be drunk in charge of a pedal cycle. 

I've never heard some refer to a bike as a "pedal cycle." Congratulations on being 800 years old.

[BigFatCoward]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I've never heard some refer to a bike as a "pedal cycle." Congratulations on being 800 years old.

Most laws in the UK are well old. 

[BigFatCoward]

Boris being a shiteing coward and not going to the sky debate tomorrow. What a pathetic fuck. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

53 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Borus being a shiteing coward and not going to the sky debate tomorrow. What a pathetic fuck. 

That's no way to speak about your future boss.

Anyway, apart from rubbing in BFC'smisery here and in the football thread (ok, I won't go that low).

Also wanted to share an interview with Sturgeon.  Like with most interviews nothing groundbreaking/new. Still a nice little read.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Embarrassing that our next PM is so arrogant and incompetent that not only are his handlers limiting his public exposure, he can’t even conduct his private life without fucking up his campaign.

[Chaircat Meow]

Max Hastings pulling no punches denouncing Boris - I was Boris Johnson’s boss: he is utterly unfit to be prime minister