Tad Williams - The Witchwood Crown / Empire of Grass spoiler thread

[Lord Varys]

23 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

Now, I know the last time there was speculation on this was 2019, but I re-read MS&T and finally read “The Heart of What was Lost” AND just started my re-read of the new trilogy with all of that in mind, and...

It seems to me that the author is telegraphing pretty loudly and clearly that the red-robed creature is John Josua. Perhaps Pryrates re-animated in John Josua. The things that led me to this conclusion:

1. The book “Aetheric Whispers” that JJ’s widow had that the monk discovered. The whole thing about communication with the dead.

2. John Josua supposedly died of a fever. Elias was living in an artificially-(Storm King created) cold environment, but remember how he always complained he was “burning up”?

3. Early on, after Isgrimnur’s death, and while talking to Binabik, Simon talks about his terrible dreams the week before John Josua’s death: “Pryrates was a cat, and John Josua was a mouse”...

I think we can safely say that Pryrates (or a piece of him) is still around and that he killed John Josua or orchestrated his death somehow, but he could only be John Josua if he had taken over his body ... and one assumes that was properly buried, making somewhat difficult (although not impossible).

The more freakish question is how the hell Pryrates can still be around if Ineluki himself apparently killed him. How could he fail at that? But then - he seems to have been kind of a moron doing everything his great-great-etc. grandma said.

The tricky core question still is why the Norn Queen actually supported Ineluki in the first place when she apparently also helped the Rimmersmen (via the Nisses fellow) to destroy it in the first place. There are some very ugly things going on there, and Pryrates may turn out to be necessary to the plan B Utuk'ku seems to be implementing now that plan A (Storm King stuff) didn't work out the way they wanted it to go.

The message I got is that the Norn Queen is just continuing with the war she and Ineluki started in MST - there is no new plan, just a variation of the old one. Ineluki was supposed to help her do what she is now going to get done with Hakatri's help.

If assume everything is going to converge again at the Hayholt then this is still going to take a lot of pages, especially since it should be a better story if the good guys are first driven from the place (likely by Unver's armies) before the active heroes then sneak back in to prevent Utuk'ku from unleashing/summoning Unbeing and destroying reality itself. Because that would be her endgame when one goes back to her POV in MST. She wants to die, but cannot stand the thought that anybody outlives her, so she can only go if and when everybody else dies with her.

[Jussi]

Brothers of the Wind blurb:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Untitled-Osten-Ard-Story-Last/dp/1473646685

Spoiler

The Long-Awaited Prequel to The Dragonbone Chair

Pride often goes before a fall, but sometimes that prideful fall is so catastrophic that it changes history itself.

Among the immortal Sithi of Osten Ard, none are more beloved and admired than the two sons of the ruling family, steady Hakatri and his proud and fiery younger brother Ineluki - Ineluki, who will one day become the undead Storm King. The younger brother makes a bold, terrible oath that he will destroy deadly Hidohebhi, a terrifying monster, but instead drags his brother with him into a disaster that threatens not just their family but all the Sithi - and perhaps all of humankind as well.

Set a thousand years before the events of Williams's The Dragonbone Chair, the tale of Ineluki's tragic boast and what it brings is told by Pamon Kes, Hakatri's faithful servant. Kes is not one of the Sithi but a member of the enslaved Changeling race, and his loyalty has never before been tested. Now he must face the terrible black dragon at his master's side, then see his own life changed forever in a mere instant by Ineluki's rash, selfish promise.

Kes and his master will range the world, risking countless dangers and meeting both mortals and immortals of many kinds as they try to undo the tragedy that springs from Ineluki's fatal pledge. During this journey, the seeds are planted for events that will culminate centuries later in the Storm King's War in Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn and the dreadful Norn Queen Utuk'ku's assault on humanity in The Last King of Osten Ard.

In the end, Pamon Kes must question everything about his life - and risk everything, too - as he struggles to save his beloved master, Hakatri. But will anything Kes does be enough? Or has Ineluki's rash promise already set the entire world on an unstoppable course toward destruction?

 

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

9 hours ago, Jussi said:

Brothers of the Wind blurb:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Untitled-Osten-Ard-Story-Last/dp/1473646685

  Hide contents

The Long-Awaited Prequel to The Dragonbone Chair

Pride often goes before a fall, but sometimes that prideful fall is so catastrophic that it changes history itself.

Among the immortal Sithi of Osten Ard, none are more beloved and admired than the two sons of the ruling family, steady Hakatri and his proud and fiery younger brother Ineluki - Ineluki, who will one day become the undead Storm King. The younger brother makes a bold, terrible oath that he will destroy deadly Hidohebhi, a terrifying monster, but instead drags his brother with him into a disaster that threatens not just their family but all the Sithi - and perhaps all of humankind as well.

Set a thousand years before the events of Williams's The Dragonbone Chair, the tale of Ineluki's tragic boast and what it brings is told by Pamon Kes, Hakatri's faithful servant. Kes is not one of the Sithi but a member of the enslaved Changeling race, and his loyalty has never before been tested. Now he must face the terrible black dragon at his master's side, then see his own life changed forever in a mere instant by Ineluki's rash, selfish promise.

Kes and his master will range the world, risking countless dangers and meeting both mortals and immortals of many kinds as they try to undo the tragedy that springs from Ineluki's fatal pledge. During this journey, the seeds are planted for events that will culminate centuries later in the Storm King's War in Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn and the dreadful Norn Queen Utuk'ku's assault on humanity in The Last King of Osten Ard.

In the end, Pamon Kes must question everything about his life - and risk everything, too - as he struggles to save his beloved master, Hakatri. But will anything Kes does be enough? Or has Ineluki's rash promise already set the entire world on an unstoppable course toward destruction?

 

 

Do we have a publication date.  It’s not showing up on Amazon.

[Werthead]

10 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Do we have a publication date.  It’s not showing up on Amazon.

It says on the link: 1 June 2021. Whether that's the final date or a placeholder is unclear.

[End of Disc One]

16 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Do we have a publication date.  It’s not showing up on Amazon.

That's weird, it redirects to Amazon.com for me too, even though the link says amazon.co.uk

[ylvs]

Tad just sent the final manuscript to his publishers and expects it to hit the shelves in June.

[Werthead]

13 hours ago, ylvs said:

Tad just sent the final manuscript to his publishers and expects it to hit the shelves in June.

Amazon UK has just changed the date to 4 November 2021. And dates for The Navigator's Children have just popped up on several UK bookstores as 6 October 2022.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Werthead

[ylvs]

Yes, I swa these, too. Have no idea why that is. Especially the 11/22 date is really late. I expected it much earlier next year. But then everything is weird in these pandemic times with publishing not less than other things ...

[Jussi]

It looks like November 2021 is the real release date for Brothers of the Wind:

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/548430/brothers-of-the-wind-by-tad-williams/

[ylvs]

Tad read a yet unpublished Osten Ard story the other day. It is called The Lady of the Wood and starring Camaris. Find it on youtube Part One & Part Two. Happy watching!

[Werthead]

Stop me if this sounds familiar, but The Navigator's Children will now be published in two volumes.

No, really.

[Lord Varys]

On 5/2/2021 at 2:02 PM, Werthead said:

Stop me if this sounds familiar, but The Navigator's Children will now be published in two volumes.

No, really.

Anything else would have been pretty strange considering how far the story progressed in Empire of Grass.

Hopefully he can rewrite it to the point that it will be two novels and not just one novel in two parts with there being no climax around the break.

[TazerFace!]

TazerFace is SHOCKED. TazerFace needs his fainting couch.

[Valandil]

 

On 5/2/2021 at 1:02 PM, Werthead said:

Stop me if this sounds familiar, but The Navigator's Children will now be published in two volumes.

No, really.

With hopefully tight timelines around publication? A couple months between volumes! That’d be great! 

[Werthead]

6 minutes ago, Valandil said:

 

With hopefully tight timelines around publication? A couple months between volumes! That’d be great! 

6-12 months is more likely, I think.

[ylvs]

On 5/6/2021 at 4:03 AM, Lord Varys said:

Anything else would have been pretty strange considering how far the story progressed in Empire of Grass.

Hopefully he can rewrite it to the point that it will be two novels and not just one novel in two parts with there being no climax around the break.

Do not worry.

[Jussi]

July 12, 2022 is the release date of Into the Narrowdark:

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/317969/into-the-narrowdark-by-tad-williams/9780756410643/

800 pages

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

5 minutes ago, Jussi said:

July 12, 2022 is the release date of Into the Narrowdark:

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/317969/into-the-narrowdark-by-tad-williams/9780756410643/

 

 

The penultimate book? Or Part 1 of The Navigator’s Children?

[Werthead]

3 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

The penultimate book? Or Part 1 of The Navigator’s Children?

The latter. Part 1 is called Into the Narrowdark, Part 2 is called The Navigator's Children (and I'm hearing the gap between them might not be as long as first thought).

Brothers of the Wind, the stand-alone prequel about Ineluki and his brother, is out in three weeks.

[Lord Varys]

I've read 'Brothers of the Wind'.

It is a very fine book. The narrative structur - a Tinukeda'ya servant of Hakatri's tells the story in restrospect - allows Williams to focus mainly on important events rather than insisting to give us too many irrelevant details.

I really enjoyed the different world of this ancient era - Osten Ard is a much more interesting place if Usires Aedon is not mentioned at all ;-). It could be very interesting to see Williams writing more stories about that era which he intends to with a planned novel about the fall of Asu'a - which is basically set up with that novella.

The hunt for the dragon is very much reminiscent of the hunt for Glaurung, and it is not unsurprising that Ineluki seems to have similar issues as Túrin Turambar - basically suffering for bipolar disorder. He gets really fleshed out as a character, giving him a much more tragic backstory. The dragon is slain about halfway through the book, with the second half dealing with Hakatri's injuries and his quest for healing which, ultimately, fails. Our narrator ultimately does not accompany him into the unknown west.

There are quite a few connections to The Last King of Osten Ard.

Quote

We first meet the Norn Xaniko the Exile, a descendant of Utuk'ku who was banished from Nakkiga because of his 'blasphemous writings'. He is married to a Tinukeda'ya woman our narrator befriends. Unfortunately, he doesn't talk much about his time at Nakkiga but he gives our heroes the knowledge to slay the dragon, having been a dragonslayer himself in his youth.

We also meet Ommu and her then-master Jikkyo for the first time. They are sent to Asu'a ostensibly to heal Hakatri's injuries, and Ommu remains with Ineluki after her master returns to Nakkiga. It seems that, originally, Utuk'ku wanted to recruit Hakatri as a pawn for her plans, so she turned to Ineluki instead. It seems that Ineluki might turn out to be nearly as much a pawn as Elias was in MST - Ommu becomes a whispering shadow at his side, laying the groundwork for his later deeds.

A very important little detail seems to be the fact that Utuk'ku dissuades our heroes from turning to the city of Hikehikayo for help. After Hakatri's injuries they travel to Nakkiga for help where Ineluki receives an audience with Utuk'ku (but Hakatri and our narrator do not even see her) and when they leave Ineluki persuades his brother to not visit their kinsmen in Hikehikayo, because, according to Utuk'ku, the people there couldn't help them. That's rather signficiant since Ayamenu, the Sithi woman we met in 'The Heart of What Was Lost', was from Hikehikayo, too, a place where Norns and Sithi actually lived together in unison, and it seems that the minority party in both peoples which want to restore peace are people who either lived there once or were descended from the people who lived there. I expect that folks are either going there in the next two books or people from there will finally show up again. They are going to know stuff about Utuk'ku's real plans, the true reasons for the Parting, etc. In that context it is also rather interesting that the Rimmersmen also destroyed Hikehikayo, never mind that it was a Norn city, kind of supporting the idea that Utuk'ku set up both Ineluki and Nisses of the Rimmersmen to destroy her enemies.

The idea that the Tinukeda'ya people are actually the living matter of the Garden, i.e. the Garden itself, is also elaborated on, as is the idea that the Gardenborn are all basically extra-terrestrials or transdimensional beings. The Tinukeda'ya are all interconnected in their dreams and it seems as if this is a rather crucial plot point in the new series.

Hakatri is potentially set up as the ultimate hero, being a very good guy both before and after his injuries. A crucial scene seems to be his visit to the Stone of Leave-taking where he encounters a cloaked female figure telling him that he has to make a very crucial choice in the future. One imagines that this relates to something he has to do after his resurrection at the end of the last novel. Could turn out to be wrong, though.