Character arc ranto (SPOILERS)

[Kajjo]

23 hours ago, SeanF said:

A case of motiveless malignity, then?

Honestly, didn't you expect Varys to turn again? His was a turncoat from the beginning on. His "for the realm" was mentioned multiple times. I expected him to turn against Daenerys. Didn't you? Honestly?

 

[SeanF]

14 minutes ago, Kajjo said:

Honestly, didn't you expect Varys to turn again? His was a turncoat from the beginning on. His "for the realm" was mentioned multiple times. I expected him to turn against Daenerys. Didn't you? Honestly?

 

With hindsight, I should have realised that he could never have stopped plotting (although I would never have expected him to be so inept about it).

[Kajjo]

6 hours ago, SeanF said:

With hindsight, I should have realised that he could never have stopped plotting

Thank you for agreeing.

The Varys arc is consistent from S1 to S8. 

6 hours ago, SeanF said:

although I would never have expected him to be so inept about it).

Yes, once again, the story telling was too rushed in S8.

[Rose of Red Lake]

Varys did exactly what Dany told him to do, told her to her face when she's betraying the people. It was when she didn't appear to listen anymore that he decided, ok this bish has gotta go. 

He's very consistent in his belief of Targaryens. He really should look for a contender outside of that House.

[SeanF]

7 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Varys did exactly what Dany told him to do, told her to her face when she's betraying the people. It was when she didn't appear to listen anymore that he decided, ok this bish has gotta go. 

He's very consistent in his belief of Targaryens. He really should look for a contender outside of that House.

Systematically strafing streets full of fleeing civilians was an appalling crime.

But, it was Dany's proposal that she burn down the Red Keep that prompted his ire, and then his attempt to poison her.  And, I can't see the burning of the Red Keep as anything other than a legitimate act of war.  If Dany had destroyed the Red Keep when she came to Westeros, the war would have ended in 30 minutes.

[SeanF]

14 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Thank you for agreeing.

The Varys arc is consistent from S1 to S8. 

Yes, once again, the story telling was too rushed in S8.

I'll qualify what I said previously.  Varys being a backstabbing snake is entirely in character.  His becoming anti-war is not.

[Rose of Red Lake]

12 hours ago, SeanF said:

Systematically strafing streets full of fleeing civilians was an appalling crime.

But, it was Dany's proposal that she burn down the Red Keep that prompted his ire, and then his attempt to poison her.  And, I can't see the burning of the Red Keep as anything other than a legitimate act of war.  If Dany had destroyed the Red Keep when she came to Westeros, the war would have ended in 30 minutes.

I'm not so sure. Northern independence would still be a thing. It was always there. Jon bending the knee didnt make it go away, in fact it probably made that desire increase. 

[Rose of Red Lake]

9 hours ago, SeanF said:

I'll qualify what I said previously.  Varys being a backstabbing snake is entirely in character.  His becoming anti-war is not.

Do you think he would be against fAegon burning Lords alive in the books?

[SeanF]

5 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Do you think he would be against fAegon burning Lords alive in the books?

Book Varys' only concern would be whether or not it was expedient to do so.

[SeanF]

5 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I'm not so sure. Northern independence would still be a thing. It was always there. Jon bending the knee didnt make it go away, in fact it probably made that desire increase. 

Yes, I should have said the war against Cersei would have been done in 30 minutes.

[Rose of Red Lake]

6 hours ago, SeanF said:

Yes, I should have said the war against Cersei would have been done in 30 minutes.

Would have been an ever shorter season. 

[Angel Eyes]

Something I didn’t think of before: 

I am astounded at Sam rejoining the Maesters. Last season, he was muttering about the Maesters being useless and now he’s now one once again. Who’s going to bloody take care of his mother and sisters, who were left all alone when Randyll and Dickon got barbecued? Who’s going to care for Gilly, who’s pregnant and left all alone? She could be subject to the same situation in “The Gift” where she was nearly raped. And this time, there’s no Ghost around to help her.

[Stannis is the man....nis]

Speaking of Varys can we talk about the elephant in the room? With FAegon cut and Varys motivations changed to legitimately caring for the realm then the question must be asked how the hell did show Varys think he was serving the realm any good back in S1 when he was planning on helping Dany’s mentally unstable brother attack Westeros with a Dothraki horde? 

[Br16]

1 minute ago, Stannis is the man....nis said:

Speaking of Varys can we talk about the elephant in the room? With FAegon cut and Varys motivations changed to legitimately caring for the realm then the question must be asked how the hell did show Varys think he was serving the realm any good back in S1 when he was planning on helping Dany’s mentally unstable brother attack Westeros with a Dothraki horde? 

Could it be that he was hoping the Dothraki crisis would expose how inept the corrupt and complacent nobility were and basically flush out the realms groveling obedience to noble title? Morover, mabye he thought Viserys would calm down when the bitterness of exile faded and be a good puppet.

[SeanF]

44 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Something I didn’t think of before: 

I am astounded at Sam rejoining the Maesters. Last season, he was muttering about the Maesters being useless and now he’s now one once again. Who’s going to bloody take care of his mother and sisters, who were left all alone when Randyll and Dickon got barbecued? Who’s going to care for Gilly, who’s pregnant and left all alone? She could be subject to the same situation in “The Gift” where she was nearly raped. And this time, there’s no Ghost around to help her.

Gilly would be seen as the Grand Maester's whore, which is pretty classy behaviour from Sam.

[Count Balerion]

Sam is a weird case. He arrives fresh at the Citadel and immediately learns to cure greyscale without any side-effects, overnight. Then he decides the maesters are useless, and buzzes off. Then at the end he becomes grand maester.

As for Sam's keeping Gilly as a paramour and whatnot: Sam does seem to have an underdeveloped moral sense, as evidenced by his kleptomania.

Fundamentally, the writers seem minimally interested in characters as such; their concern is with showing off the actors, and that primarily in terms of making faces. Weird, but hey.

[Kajjo]

On 7/5/2019 at 12:18 PM, SeanF said:

I'll qualify what I said previously.  Varys being a backstabbing snake is entirely in character.  His becoming anti-war is not

I agree with the backstabbing.

Varys mentioned his "for the best of the realm" several times in seasons 1 to 7. So it is in-character somehow that he does, what he deems best for the realm, whatever that means for him. 

I agree that he was not shown to be anti-war in particular, but S8E4 he was expecting Daenerys to commit exactly the atrocities she did, so I feel it as in-character for Varys to want to prevent this.