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Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn

Would Tywin agree Son of Ice and Fire to take Casterly Rock?

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Would Tywin agree Tyrion's son from Sansa to take Casterly Rock? He will not look like a monster, people will not laugh him and he will have Mad King's blood (which means he will as cruel/mad as Tywin).

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I'm not sure if I would call Tywin "mad". Certainly cold and calculating and cruel, but not mad. I think the fact that people used to laugh and jest at his fathers expense just made him more determined to make it so nobody ever laughed at House Lannister ever again. I think he would agree to Tyrions son taking Casterly Rock as long as he wasn't a dwarf like Tyrion. 

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Plus, giving Tyrion and Sansas son Casterly Rock would bring him another step closer to securing the North. Sansa having the "strongest claim" means that if they had two children, one could potentially rule the West, and one could rule in the North. Power play. 

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43 minutes ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said:

Would Tywin agree Tyrion's son from Sansa to take Casterly Rock?

Only if Jamie could not.

44 minutes ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said:

he will have Mad King's blood 

Nope.

44 minutes ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said:

 (which means he will as cruel/mad as Tywin).

Why would Sansa and Tyrion's child be cruel?

Tywin was not mad, so how does this make his grandchild mad?

Your premise is also incorrect.  Aerys did not rape Joanna and father Tyrion.

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^ right.     All the father/son tension between them ("you're no son of mine!"), it only works if Tyrion is his real son.   

Tyrion is set up with knowing all the dragon lore so he can use his smarts to tame a dragon (not any targ bloodline advantages).

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19 minutes ago, The Mother of The Others said:

^ right.     All the father/son tension between them ("you're no son of mine!"), it only works if Tyrion is his real son...  

or he is Joanna's son.

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18 minutes ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said:

or he is Joanna's son.

Do you think Tywin would have kept him around if he had even an inkling that Tyrion was not his? I know he bore a great love for the Lady Joanna, but that only takes you so far. Joanna died in child bed while birthing Tyrion, and Tyrion turned out to be a dwarf. For that alone Tywin admitted he wanted to kill him, but didn't for the love he bore Joanna. I think it would have been much different if Tywin thought it was not his child. He is too upset about being laughed at to let that happen you know? What are your thoughts to this?

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1 hour ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

Tywin did think Tyrion isn't his, but it was impossible to prove. He said himself to Tyrion after Blackwater.

That's true. Well damn. I always wondered if his mismatched eyes was a clue to this theory. All the time it is said that Tyrion "fixed them with a stare from his mismatched eyes" because he knows it makes them uncomfortable. One green eye and one black. While I am not sure what kind of clue this provides, maybe its something. Or I could just be really desperate for the new book and I'm grasping at straws. 

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41 minutes ago, LadyBlackwater said:

That's true. Well damn. I always wondered if his mismatched eyes was a clue to this theory. All the time it is said that Tyrion "fixed them with a stare from his mismatched eyes" because he knows it makes them uncomfortable. One green eye and one black. While I am not sure what kind of clue this provides, maybe its something. Or I could just be really desperate for the new book and I'm grasping at straws. 

Tywin was just hateful. He did think Tyrion isn't his son, but I doubt he actually wasn't his son. 

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1 minute ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

Tywin was just hateful. He did think Tyrion isn't his son, but I doubt he actually wasn't his son. 

I agree. I feel like if he wasn't Tywins son, we would have found out about it before Tyrion climbed up the ladder and finished it for good you know?

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Can you guys remind me of the specific quote you're talking about?  The "you're no son of mine" I thought was more metaphorical - it's what you say to a family member when you're mad at them, meant to mean I don't view you as a son because you're not worth to be, not literally you are not my biological son, but I'm wondering if you're talking about a different quote that I've forgotten when you say he said so after the Blackwater.  

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, JBM said:

Can you guys remind me of the specific quote you're talking about?  The "you're no son of mine" I thought was more metaphorical - it's what you say to a family member when you're mad at them, meant to mean I don't view you as a son because you're not worth to be, not literally you are not my biological son, but I'm wondering if you're talking about a different quote that I've forgotten when you say he said so after the Blackwater.  

After Blackwater battle, Tyrion is getting better and ask Bronn to help him to see his father.

There he asked lot of things and when he actually ask for Casterly Rock Tywin said something along these line:

My wife died before I could prove you're not my son, since I couldn't prove that you walk in Lannister clothes.

I got impression Tywin couldn't prove faithfulness since his wife died, but more in sense it wasn't legally possible.

 

Still do think Tyrion & C&J are Tywin children

 

I don't have books in my house & it's not direct quote, but I would swear it's in the books.

Edited by Lady Winter Rose

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I’d sooner believe that the twins are secret Targaryens than Tyrion. A Feast for Crows seems to have a few hints towards that fact. Cersei is continually compared to the Mad King, while Jaime is told to his face that Tyrion is Tywin’s son, not him. Yes, I know it wasn’t meant literally, but still.

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1 hour ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

After Blackwater battle, Tyrion is getting better and ask Bronn to help him to see his father.

There he asked lot of things and when he actually ask for Casterly Rock Tywin said something along these line:

My wife died before I could prove you're not my son, since I couldn't prove that you walk in Lannister clothes.

I got impression Tywin couldn't prove faithfulness since his wife died, but more in sense it wasn't legally possible.

 

Still do think Tyrion & C&J are Tywin children

 

I don't have books in my house & it's not direct quote, but I would swear it's in the books.

The actual quote from Tywin

"You ask that? You, who killed your mother to come into the world? You are an ill-made, devious, disobedient, spiteful little creature full of envy, lust, and low cunning. Men's laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine. To teach me humility, the gods have condemned me to watch you waddle about wearing that proud lion that was my father's sigil and his father's before him. But neither gods nor men shall ever compel me to let you turn Casterly Rock into your whorehouse."    

 

There is nothing in there about Tywin thinking his wife cheated on him, it is him pointing out that he is stuck with him, he has no choice but to accept that he was his son. This is not Tywin admitting to Tyrion that he thinks his mother was sleeping around. If it was do you not think Tyrion would have maybe gone over this in his inner thoughts?

People are too quick to jump to conspiracy theories that they interpret things that are not there. If Tyrion did not get that meaning from Tywin's quote then its pretty clear that is not what GRRM/Tywin meant when it was wrote.

Tyrion knows that he is Tywin's son

 

"Why not my uncle? Why not Ser Addam or Ser Flement or Lord Serrett? Why not a … bigger man?"
Lord Tywin rose abruptly. "You are my son."
That was when he knew. You have given him up for lost, he thought. You bloody bastard, you think Jaime's good as dead, so I'm all you have left.
 
In fits of anger Tywin tells both Tyrion and Jaime that they are not his sons. He was not being literal. It's kind of a common phrase from disappointed parents.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Men's laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors, since I cannot prove that you are not mine.

I have zero reason to think I'm wrong here. That doesn't mean I ship J+A=T, but that Tywin didn't really think of Tyrion as his kid. Tywin might rely on Tyrion now and then, but he really jumped on opportunity to put him in front of jury for death of Joffrey.

 

Just because I recalled that quote with some errors, doesn't mean my main point was wrong. I probably wrote previous post during a insomnia trouble.

 

Edited by Lady Winter Rose

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57 minutes ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

I have zero reason to think I'm wrong here. That doesn't mean I ship J+A=T, but that Tywin didn't really think of Tyrion as his kid. Tywin might rely on Tyrion now and then,

That is not really true. Tyrion had zero experience being in charge of the realm or a cities defences. He's been a playboy for much of his adult life.

Tyrion, when appointed Hand, is puzzled why he and not other more qualified men such as his uncle or his cousin Addam Marbrand, amongst others, is not appointed Hand and Tywin spells it out, its due to him being his son and likely heir now that Jaime's fate is pretty much uncertain.

57 minutes ago, Lady Winter Rose said:

 

but he really jumped on opportunity to put him in front of jury for death of Joffrey.

Not really. Tyrion was the principle suspect in the murder of a King, Tywin's own grandson. He can't sweep that up, not with Cersei being ballistic and the Tyrells pissed (however theatrically that was). Tyrion had more motive than anyone else, had the means to poison him (Pycelle's confiscated poisons), had made multiple public threats to hurt the King and was one of the last people to interact with the poisoned King. All the evidence points to him

The fact that Tyrion is getting a trial is pretty impressive in itself. Kevan himself is convinced of Tyrion's guilt

Lovely. "I see." He shifted in his seat. "I am curious. You were always a fair man, Uncle. What convinced you?"
"Why steal Pycelle's poisons, if not to use them?" Ser Kevan said bluntly. "And Lady Merryweather saw—"
 
 
Tyrion was only going to escape execution due to who his father was

The mob is convinced of your guilt. Were you so foolish as to venture out into the streets, they would tear you limb from limb."
"I can see how much that prospect upsets you."
"You are my brother's son."

"You might remind him of that."

"Do you think he would allow you to take the black if you were not his own blood, and Joanna's?

I get that we, the reader, know for a fact that Tyrion is innocent but the people of Kings Landing do not. Tyrion looks incredibly guilty, Tyrion himself can't figure of an alternative to him or his wife as the killer. Cersei is not using this as an excuse to get rid of her brother, she genuinely believes he murdered her son. Tywin can't allow Tyrion to go unpunished for killing his grandson, the King, he also can't be seen to not be doing anything about it.

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