(F?) Aegon's personality and future

[Moiraine Sedai]

On 6/22/2019 at 4:41 PM, LadyOfCastamere said:

Hey there!

I've been spending time thinking of possible alliances in the future between the major players of the Game of Thrones that are left at the end of ADWD. It then struck me that I did not really have a clear idea of what the presumed child of Rhaegar really is like and therefore, I could not really anticipate his future development.

So far what we have are glimpses of him through Tyrion's and JonCon's perspective. Varys describes him as perfectly raised, educated in all important matters whilst having lived with the smallfolk. Hence, he's trying to underline Aegon's worthiness aside from his ''natural claim'' through his father. JonCon mostly agrees with this, though he seems to think that Aegon isn't the smartest there is when it comes to playing the Game of Thrones - and I have to agree, he doesn't come across as very cunning (some would also say he lacks the intelligence for it).
When I read Tyrion's POV in which he played Cyvasse with Aegon and beat him, Aegon's inability to contain his anger seemed to give away his short temper. He threw the board down and commanded Tyrion to pick up the pawns. Although said to be 18 and reckoned by Tyrion to be around 16, he seems to lack patience and maturity. This is again emphasized when Aegon takes on Tyrion's suggestion and goes to Westeros without Dany, later even deciding to attack Storm's End with himself as the lead. Though his (presumed) success speaks for his abilities, it was a courageous yet unintelligent move due to the high risks.

In total, he appears to be a rather simple young man, impatient, hungry for glory, fully believing and depending on his presumed birthright. I'm not seeing a very deep soul here and no real traces of Rhaegar's personality. My prediction is that he will act unwisely and push too much, consequently losing in one of the major battles.

What are your thoughts so far?

I might increase  his chances of beating Cersei if his future partner is somebody besides Arianne.  Her nature doesn't compliment his in a positive way.  But it does mean he will die.  He always has the option to run back to Tyrosh. 

[nyser1]

While I agree that Aegon is showing signs that he does not need Dany/need to share power with her, none of the other monarchs/pretenders show (or showed) a desire to share power.

[Br16]

On 6/30/2019 at 2:39 AM, Platypus Rex said:

The metaphor, as you interpret it, does not work.  You have to have a dragon, before you make the strategic mistake of bringing it out too soon (this is a clear reference to a common mistake in Chess, as applied to its most powerful piece, the Queen).

But this could foreshadow his gaining control of a dragon, using it too often, too soon, and too eagerly, and losing the war because of it.

Where would he get a dragon from?  Dunno.  But we have all these blood mages running around, and all this foreshadowing regarding human sacrifice with kingsblood babies awaking stone dragons (presumably dragons with advanced greyscale).

Jeyne Westerling, per the rumours, will be in the prologue of Winds, which will also concern the taking of Storms End.   But what does Jeyne have to do with the taking of Storms End?  Dunno.  But King Robb may have left a baby in her belly, and Jeyne's mother Sybil is a blood mage.  Young Griff might be able to take Storm's End, if he had a dragon.

I feel that as a metaphor, it does work. He possessed a chance to woo Dany and get dragons, he gave up that chance. 

However, I like your theory that Faegon might get a dragon by other means. Personally, I doubt the advanced greyscale theory since imo, greyscale (Garin's curse) is water/disease/poison magic, while dragons are creatures of fire magic. I feel Fire can burn disease away. This is why No Dragonlord or Dragon were recorded to have been infected during  that greyscale epidemic during the end of Rhoynar wars, but the entire regular Valyrian host was afflicted. I feel their fiery blood protected them.

Perhaps he manages to resurrect a fossilized dragon with the blood magic you suggest?

[The Sleeper]

In the few scenes he has on page are included him choking in battle and a fit of petulant rage. Martin did not include those to show us just how awesome he is. 

[Aldarion]

1 hour ago, The Sleeper said:

In the few scenes he has on page are included him choking in battle and a fit of petulant rage. Martin did not include those to show us just how awesome he is. 

He doesn't need to be awesome to be a good leader. Many excellent knights/fighters would have made terrible leaders; and many of more capable leaders in the series do not seem to be very good fighters (Wyman Manderly, for example). Problem is, Aegon doesn't have experience and does not seem to be good at managing his temper. Unless he learns quickly, or else surrounds himself with good advisors he trusts and listens to, he may end up making cardinal mistake(s), much like Robb Stark.

[The Sleeper]

8 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

He doesn't need to be awesome to be a good leader. Many excellent knights/fighters would have made terrible leaders; and many of more capable leaders in the series do not seem to be very good fighters (Wyman Manderly, for example). Problem is, Aegon doesn't have experience and does not seem to be good at managing his temper. Unless he learns quickly, or else surrounds himself with good advisors he trusts and listens to, he may end up making cardinal mistake(s), much like Robb Stark.

I am talking about his character not his fighting skills. 

[Aldarion]

2 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

 I am talking about his character not his fighting skills. 

I am aware; but freezing under threat of immediate death does not mean he will be incompetent leader. Assuming, of course, he acts more like Stannis than Robert, and commands from the rear as opposed to going into thick of fighting (which, for a leader/commander is a profoundly stupid course of action).

[The Sleeper]

4 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

I am aware; but freezing under threat of immediate death does not mean he will be incompetent leader. Assuming, of course, he acts more like Stannis than Robert, and commands from the rear as opposed to going into thick of fighting (which, for a leader/commander is a profoundly stupid course of action).

Combined with his tantrum it shows that composure under stress is not his strong suit. You think his endeavour will be relaxing and stress free?

[Aldarion]

6 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

 Combined with his tantrum it shows that composure under stress is not his strong suit. You think his endeavour will be relaxing and stress free?

Consider that Tyrion was intentionally provoking him. Stress response may vary depending on nature of stress. Also, I did mention that:

"Problem is, Aegon doesn't have experience and does not seem to be good at managing his temper. "

Thing is, he does have competent people surrounding him. As long as he resists impulse to micromanage things, he should be fine.

[The Sleeper]

1 hour ago, Aldarion said:

Consider that Tyrion was intentionally provoking him. Stress response may vary depending on nature of stress. Also, I did mention that:

"Problem is, Aegon doesn't have experience and does not seem to be good at managing his temper. "

Thing is, he does have competent people surrounding him. As long as he resists impulse to micromanage things, he should be fine.

The nature of the stress is that he was made a fool off over a game. And he blew up. What would happen if it was something actually serious? 

As for his councilors he is already dismissing them. 

Martin put that scene there for a reason. Tyrion introduced to Aegon the concept that other people may not automatically do everything he likes and as a result he threw a temper tantrum. Martin was establishing Aegon's character at that moment. 

[Aldarion]

1 minute ago, The Sleeper said:

The nature of the stress is that he was made a fool off over a game. And he blew up. What would happen if it was something actually serious? 

As for his councilors he is already dismissing them. 

Martin put that scene there for a reason. Tyrion introduced to Aegon the concept that other people may not automatically do everything he likes and as a result he threw a temper tantrum. Martin was establishing Aegon's character at that moment. 

Unless I am seriously misremembering the scene, the nature of the stress is that he was mocked. To use myself for an example, I have a tendency to blow up if I think people are not taking me seriously or making a fool out of me, yet I have never blown up because somebody did not do something I do not like, or because I have lost a game. These are completely different things. Basically, fact that he blew up over being mocked does not mean that he will blow up over something actually serious.

Martin is showing that Aegon may well be a Targaryen for real (they are known for their temper), which I believe will play out later when Daenerys arrives; that he is ready to take risks, is bold and aggressive. Now, it is true that all of that may lead him to make a lethal mistake - or a bunch of them - but it may also allow him to reach accord with Daenerys - who, if her choice of paramours is anything to go by, does seem drawn to reckless types.

[Platypus Rex]

On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 12:06 AM, Br16 said:

sI feel that as a metaphor, it does work. He possessed a chance to woo Dany and get dragons, he gave up that chance. 

However, I like your theory that Faegon might get a dragon by other means. Personally, I doubt the advanced greyscale theory since imo, greyscale (Garin's curse) is water/disease/poison magic, while dragons are creatures of fire magic. I feel Fire can burn disease away. This is why No Dragonlord or Dragon were recorded to have been infected during  that greyscale epidemic during the end of Rhoynar wars, but the entire regular Valyrian host was afflicted. I feel their fiery blood protected them.

Perhaps he manages to resurrect a fossilized dragon with the blood magic you suggest?

I just noticed that Arianne has the same problem in chess as Young Griff.  Daemon mocks her for relying too much on her dragon, ignoring her other pieces.  Maybe the blood mages will reanimate two greyscale dragons; or three.  There are certainly enough potential kingsbloods running around (Mance's baby, who just fell into the hands of the cabal at Oldtown; Edric Storm;  Jeyne Westerling's baby, if she has one; Shireen; not to mention Aemon's preserved kingsblood corpse on the Cinnamon Wind). 

[The Lord of the Crossing]

On 6/22/2019 at 4:41 PM, LadyOfCastamere said:

What are your thoughts so far?

Being too cautious is almost as bad as being hasty.  He has to take the risk in order to advance in the game.  I will have to say, he has the potential to be better than Robb and Jon in his leadership.  

[The Lord of the Crossing]

On 7/4/2019 at 12:40 PM, Aldarion said:

Unless I am seriously misremembering the scene, the nature of the stress is that he was mocked. To use myself for an example, I have a tendency to blow up if I think people are not taking me seriously or making a fool out of me, yet I have never blown up because somebody did not do something I do not like, or because I have lost a game. These are completely different things. Basically, fact that he blew up over being mocked does not mean that he will blow up over something actually serious.

Martin is showing that Aegon may well be a Targaryen for real (they are known for their temper), which I believe will play out later when Daenerys arrives; that he is ready to take risks, is bold and aggressive. Now, it is true that all of that may lead him to make a lethal mistake - or a bunch of them - but it may also allow him to reach accord with Daenerys - who, if her choice of paramours is anything to go by, does seem drawn to reckless types.

No.  Not this.  Khal Drogo was not reckless.  He was very measured.  She has good taste in men.  Daario was just a plaything that she was able to set aside when the need arose.  Her taste in men is better than Sansa's.  

[Br16]

4 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

There are certainly enough potential kingsbloods running around (Mance's baby, who just fell into the hands of the cabal at Oldtown; Edric Storm;  Jeyne Westerling's baby, if she has one; Shireen; not to mention Aemon's preserved kingsblood corpse on the Cinnamon Wind). 

On another note, perhaps the main members of some of the Great Houses also count as kings blood. It was not so long ago that they were Kings of the Rock, Winter Kings, Sovereign Princes of Dorne etc. 

[Aldarion]

2 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

No.  Not this.  Khal Drogo was not reckless.  He was very measured.  She has good taste in men.  Daario was just a plaything that she was able to set aside when the need arose.  Her taste in men is better than Sansa's.  

Khal Drogo was also not her choice. I was referring to Daario. And if she wasn't drawn to him at some level, she wouldn't have had any relationship with Daario.

[Platypus Rex]

50 minutes ago, Br16 said:

On another note, perhaps the main members of some of the Great Houses also count as kings blood. It was not so long ago that they were Kings of the Rock, Winter Kings, Sovereign Princes of Dorne etc. 

Insofar as I can follow the logic of the magicians, and the examples they use, they seem to be looking for actual progeny of people who were actually serving as kings in some capacity, at the time they sired said offspring.  Genetic makeup seems to be irrelevant.

Similarly, Euron collects priests for certain of his blood-magic rituals, and seems to care neither for their genetic heritage, or precisely what gods they worship.

[Br16]

 

2 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

Insofar as I can follow the logic of the magicians, and the examples they use, they seem to be looking for actual progeny of people who were actually serving as kings in some capacity, at the time they sired said offspring.  Genetic makeup seems to be irrelevant.

Similarly, Euron collects priests for certain of his blood-magic rituals, and seems to care neither for their genetic heritage, or precisely what gods they worship.

What I'm interested is if say, the Hightowers declared themselves Kings of the Tower tomorrow, would they qualify as Kingsblood? If simply wearing a crown is all that is required, seems overly reliant on a technicality to me. For example, if Robb did not accept KitN, is suddenly his blood is not good enough despite his control of the North and unbroken descent from Winter Kings?

[Rose of Red Lake]

I think raising him as a Targaryen heir is the inverse to Ned raising Jon as a Stark bastard, and that is the main foil that Martin is going for. What happens when people are raised to think that they are owed a title and are never checked on it? He has a sense of Targaryen entitlement that isn't very becoming. At the same time, he's not exactly someone you want to see killed in a brutal way like Dany probably will do to him. He's just a kid who got the unfortunate hand in life to be Varys' lab rat. 

[Aldarion]

I think Aegon, as (likely) a false Targaryen, is a foil for both Jon and Daenerys. Here is an interesting read I found about him and Daenerys:

https://orangedodge.tumblr.com/post/185937406933/ive-always-felt-like-aegon-contrasted-dany-much

I actually agree with most or all of the above. I just don't agree with view that it means Aegon will necessarily be a bad king, or Daenerys necessarily a good queen. I know that Martin is more to the Left, politically, but he also has done a lot of research on history - and in real world, heirs to the throne were apparently often brought up in isolation.

And apparently, Daenerys may never come to Westeros at all.

EDIT: Regarding his personality:

https://www.16personalities.com/enfp-strengths-and-weaknesses