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Police - a thin blue line, a wad of cash and scary guns


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I also suspect that police work is not valued in the same way that it was in the past. Corruption scandals, Stephen Lawrence etc have all pushed the publics opinion of the police down well below where it was. There doesn't seem to be much social value being a police officer now. 

My mate became a community officer a few years ago (I know.. hardly the same thing) because he wanted to help people, but also because he thought it was cool. But it became something he wouldn't talk about or tell anyone he did. I found that a bit sad. 

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17 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I also suspect that police work is not valued in the same way that it was in the past. Corruption scandals, Stephen Lawrence etc have all pushed the publics opinion of the police down well below where it was. There doesn't seem to be much social value being a police officer now. 

 

Yeah. The Lawrence thing has really hung around (not without justification), but most of my officers were about 6 when it happened, how the fuck were they supposed to do anything about Institutional racism?

 

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Judging by polling, the police still rate quite highly (lower than teachers and doctors, but higher than clergy and business owners, and way higher than occupations like journalists, MP's, or estate agents.).  Generally, junior police are rated higher than senior police, which is encouraging, as people will generally come into contact with the junior police/

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In other police news, my husband and I got pulled over for expired tags.  I swear, ossifer, we didn't realize it!  (New lease car and were assured we were good to go re: tags.  We weren't and stupidly didn't double-check it.)

They let us go with a warning.  I can see how others might not have the same experience.

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Yes there are bad police officers but there are also good ones.  I'll bet there are far more good ones than Bad ones.  There have also been several high profile events that have helped make the police to be seen as corrupt and the enemy.  Hillsborough, Stephen Lawrence, Some of the handling of paedophile rings, and police sending abused children back to their care homes.  They time when they shot a guy (on the terror watch list) wearing a backpack on the tube.  These things don't help their image, but I think they are rare and most happened a long time ago.

One of the biggest problems the police have with their public standing is the 24hr news and social media.  Think about it the majority of people who have interactions with the police normally have a reason to be a little biased in the first place.  If you have just been arrested for something you might not feel like telling everyone how wonderful that another criminal is now safely off the streets.  You might instead say how you where roughly manhandled, how the cuffs where too tight  and how you where shoved into a tiny cell with no food or water for several days, how you kids where they left alone without any supervision (or maybe stolen by CPS).

Other people they deal with have often just committed a traffic offence.  These are often considered not real crimes (ok they are not criminal crimes) thus not something the police should be wasting their time over.  I was only just doing "31 in a 30"  caught on speedgun doing 45.  so possibly not normally the best people to give reviews.  Although I'm sure there are some people who tell others about how they got let off, not sure such antciodes are shared that many times.  people only really care about traffic crimes when its other people doing them or driving illegally without insurance or very badly - in which case its the police's fault for not stopping them earlier.    Oh and if you are stopped for not having tax and you can't pay on the spot your car is then taken away.  so another negative story to tell one sided how you where left stranded and exaggerated with your kids on the side of a motorway.

then there are people who are victims of crime.  these people are I imagine often upset and emotional and angry.  Why couldn't the police stop this crime.  why are they letting all these criminals out so early, or just giving the a slap on the wrist and letting them go?  A lot of this has to do with police cuts and the criminal courts, not stuff directly any policeman can do anything about.

So while there are problems with some of members of the police, I think its important to look at who is making the report and why,  you may not be getting the full story.  remember more sensational news is shared more often than positive stuff.

 

For myself I've only really had positive interactions with the police apart from 1, maybe 2.

When I first started driving I was stopped all the time for "a routine check"  this was just a check to see if I was not a 12 year old and actually had a licence.  The very first time I was stopped was the day I passed my test.  And I would be stopped at least once a month for a couple of years,  then gradually less often.  I didn't mind, I knew I looked like a child out for a joyride.  and I'd be seriously pissed if some child stole my car, was seen by the police but they didn't stop them cos maybe she just looks young for her age.  I only objected the one time when the officer doubted my license was mine, he did not appreciate my sarcastic answer.

The only Bad encounter, and even then it wasn't that bad considering the circumstances.  (If this had been the US and not white I've no doubt I'd have been shot)  There had been an armed robbery and the getaway vechical was a clone of my car.  I was even wearing a coat of the same colour, so I can't really blame them when me and my car was spotted.   I had noticed that I was being tailed by an unmarked police car,  I thought they where trying to make their mind up as to stop me for looking like a child, or waiting for a safe place to stop me.  They where waiting for re-informants and the armed police to arrive.  Which they did.  The police managed to stop me without causing any damage and other than giving me a bit of a fright no harm was done.  Once I was out of the car I was quickly identified as not the person they where looking for.

 

The only time I've personally witnessed a hostility to the police from a crowd, was several years ago, In Tesco's Pitsea.  When I arrived there was a massive crowd filming about 8 police handle one person.  this person was on the ground and struggling, kicking and biting as best as he could, which was not very as there where 8 police to hold him down.   It was the comments from the crowd I kept hearing, about how the police where giving him a good kicking and how they where recording it as proof of police brutality.  From what I saw the police where doing only what was necessary to keep hold of the guy and not get injured.  Outnumbering the guy is apparently bad form and very unfair.  When the guy stopped struggling and calmed down they let him get up, only for him to then try and break free and start fighting again.  The mood of the crowd was very ugly.  they where all on the side of the suspect, I didn't stick around to watch, I wanted not to be part of the hostile crowd.  Inside the store I learnt that the suspect had tried to steal several bottles of wine, and had been confronted by store security, one of whom got bashed with one of the wine bottles.

 

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28 minutes ago, Pebble said:

One of the biggest problems the police have with their public standing is the 24hr news and social media.  Think about it the majority of people who have interactions with the police normally have a reason to be a little biased in the first place.  If you have just been arrested for something you might not feel like telling everyone how wonderful that another criminal is now safely off the streets.  You might instead say how you where roughly manhandled, how the cuffs where too tight  and how you where shoved into a tiny cell with no food or water for several days, how you kids where they left alone without any supervision (or maybe stolen by CPS).

Spend any time watching those Police Interceptor programs on TV and you'll probably end up with a much higher opinion of the police than if you just watched the news. Just seeing some of the people they have to deal with on a daily basis makes you wonder how anyone could handle that without crossing over to the dark side.

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49 minutes ago, Pebble said:

 

The only time I've personally witnessed a hostility to the police from a crowd, was several years ago, In Tesco's Pitsea.  When I arrived there was a massive crowd filming about 8 police handle one person.  this person was on the ground and struggling, kicking and biting as best as he could, which was not very as there where 8 police to hold him down.   It was the comments from the crowd I kept hearing, about how the police where giving him a good kicking and how they where recording it as proof of police brutality.  From what I saw the police where doing only what was necessary to keep hold of the guy and not get injured.  Outnumbering the guy is apparently bad form and very unfair.  When the guy stopped struggling and calmed down they let him get up, only for him to then try and break free and start fighting again.  The mood of the crowd was very ugly.  they where all on the side of the suspect, I didn't stick around to watch, I wanted not to be part of the hostile crowd.  Inside the store I learnt that the suspect had tried to steal several bottles of wine, and had been confronted by store security, one of whom got bashed with one of the wine bottles.

 

That is one of our biggest problems. It takes 5-6 people to safely detain someone I could handle by myself if I was allowed to punch them. But the optics of 6 people pinning someone down is terrible. 

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32 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

That is one of our biggest problems. It takes 5-6 people to safely detain someone I could handle by myself if I was allowed to punch them. But the optics of 6 people pinning someone down is terrible. 

I think its the general principle of many against one is inherently unfair, which makes people automatically cheer for the one.

But I'll always remember the feeling in the crowd.  It was unthinking hatred and disgust.  I think if anyone of those police did anything other than just held him down.  say punched him I really don't think the crowd would have just filmed it.  after all we outnumbered the police by a lot, it only need some spark to turn that crowd into a mob.

 

You have a very difficult job, and I admire anyone who does it and stays a good officer.

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17 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I also suspect that police work is not valued in the same way that it was in the past. Corruption scandals, Stephen Lawrence etc have all pushed the publics opinion of the police down well below where it was. There doesn't seem to be much social value being a police officer now. 

My mate became a community officer a few years ago (I know.. hardly the same thing) because he wanted to help people, but also because he thought it was cool. But it became something he wouldn't talk about or tell anyone he did. I found that a bit sad. 

I also wonder how much the image of the British Police is tarnished by consumption of American media and news, where it's a whole different story.
When British papers/news are covering stories of yet another person being shot for being black in the US; then it must be prety easy for the general public to think ours might have the same attitude, just not the guns - especially with the Stephen Lawrence case popping back into the public conscience every few years.

 

Personally, I think of our police similialy to how I think of our nurses - not doing as good a job as they should be, but mostly doing the best they can with one hand tied behind their backs and the inevitable few bad apples.
I'm sad to say that I've had to have a few direct dealings with the police - I'm happy to say that I've yet to have a bad experience, or been treated unfairly.

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My specific example here stateside, I don't know how many heard about this, the police officer in Phoenix, AZ who threatens a mom and her little girl because she "shoplifted" a Barbie doll at a dollar store. Police were issuing threats like "I'll bust a cap in you!" and such and it were civilians taking on the role that should be from "peace" officers trying to calm the situation. One woman asked to take the kids away from the situation, the mom didn't know her but was ready to just hand her children over to a stranger to get her away from danger. No way should she have had to consider the police a danger to her children!!!

Trevor Noah had a really good commentary on it:

 

Also this Youtube journalist, I absolutely adore, Beau of the Fifth Column, who looks like he should belong on Duck Dynasty or Swamp People but talks like he could be part of the not radical left but bringing-sense-back-to-America left. He had been in the military and former trainer of police in tactics, he quit that job because of how he saw their behavior becoming.

 

 

Another great piece he did on police:

 

 

I know there are good cops out there. More good ones than bad ones. I know there needs to be serious institutional reform too. I'll still allow that there are good cops even if they aren't publicly speaking for said reform though. I get it that they really do want to help people and enjoy having a job that allows them that, and feeling that speaking out would do nothing but get them ostracized, pressured to quit, or reasons found to be fired. I get that there are good cops out there that feel they can do more good by being what they think a police officer should be and setting that as an example instead of getting themselves thrown out of a job. However, the time has come, has come a while ago, that those good cops need to start speaking out for institutional reform no matter what.

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27 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

I also wonder how much the image of the British Police is tarnished by consumption of American media and news, where it's a whole different story.
When British papers/news are covering stories of yet another person being shot for being black in the US; then it must be prety easy for the general public to think ours might have the same attitude, just not the guns - especially with the Stephen Lawrence case popping back into the public conscience every few years.

I suspect it plays a role in the public perception. I think we have tended to borrow a sort of anti-authoritarian streak as well, where the police are the enemy and you need to resist them. That all seems a bit daft when in reality I think most police officers I've met, some my friends too, are generally pretty average, nice people. They also have to do a very difficult job and almost never get any credit or recognition for doing it. 

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2 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

I also wonder how much the image of the British Police is tarnished by consumption of American media and news, where it's a whole different story.
When British papers/news are covering stories of yet another person being shot for being black in the US; then it must be prety easy for the general public to think ours might have the same attitude, just not the guns - especially with the Stephen Lawrence case popping back into the public conscience every few years.

 

Personally, I think of our police similialy to how I think of our nurses - not doing as good a job as they should be, but mostly doing the best they can with one hand tied behind their backs and the inevitable few bad apples.
I'm sad to say that I've had to have a few direct dealings with the police - I'm happy to say that I've yet to have a bad experience, or been treated unfairly.

Without doubt.  Deaths at police hands are rare in the UK and are thoroughly investigated when they occur.

But, I remember at the time of the 2011 riots, you had a bunch of scrotes who just wanted to steal and burn, all mouthing off about how the "Feds" mistreated them.

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On 6/24/2019 at 12:28 PM, BigFatCoward said:

73 mps officers in 2 years is a phenomenally small number as a %, the rest makes pretty grim reading. 

There is a school of thought that constant erosion of pay and working conditions leads to corruption but I'm not sure I buy that, you are either a scumbag or you aren't, money doesn't come into it. 

That's not to say every day at work I dont consider how much less I'm paid due to austerity than I would be if inflationary pay rises had been in place. 

But I think it's the growing contempt we feel from society as a whole which is more likely driving people to corruption 'they fucking hate us, why should we give a shit about them' sort of mindset. 

So then what explained it historically?

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  • 2 weeks later...

how about portland police bureau tweeting out the completely baseless and unsubstantiated claim that milkshakes present at the june 29 demonstration against the proud boys/patriot prayer contained quick drying cement, a lie that has been picked up and spread by brett art and fox news, with no correction or retraction, and is being used by right wing agitators to justify the potential use of deadly force against anti fascist activists in the future... just another in a long line of examples of ppb carrying water for and protecting far right white nationalist groups. crazy how folks could have trouble trusting such an institution

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Just some Proud Boy walking about town, fist-bumping a stogie-crunching DC cop as he walks by.

Serving and protecting white nationalists in Chocolate City. NBD.

 

It may not be 'ACAB' but entirely too many are. So where does the change come from? If the job is about pay and security more than serving and protecting citizens, then it never ends. Authority + bigotry + racism + misogyny + homophobia + weapons = What could go wrong?

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11 hours ago, a good and nice guy said:

how about portland police bureau tweeting out the completely baseless and unsubstantiated claim that milkshakes present at the june 29 demonstration against the proud boys/patriot prayer contained quick drying cement, a lie that has been picked up and spread by brett art and fox news, with no correction or retraction, and is being used by right wing agitators to justify the potential use of deadly force against anti fascist activists in the future... just another in a long line of examples of ppb carrying water for and protecting far right white nationalist groups. crazy how folks could have trouble trusting such an institution

What did the police do while Antifa was beating up that Quilette guy?

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14 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

That's an odd way to try and hand wave cops reciting fascist propaganda.

More hand wavey than ignoring antifa beating up a journalist, pulling old men out of cars while waving crowbars.. all the while the police are under instructions to  not intervene. 

Its interesting all you home in on is a tweet by police warning of reports of substances in a milkshake?

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ngo got egged and punch in the middle of a crowd hundreds of yards away from any cops because he was deliberately provocative and looking for a reaction. he wanted a response like that and went out of his way to get it. and the cops weren’t “not interfereing” they were actively protecting the proud boys and patriot prayer. like, literally standing behind them

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