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THE WHEEL OF TIME TV Show: The braid tugs, as the writing wills [BOOK SPOILERS]


Corvinus85

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23 minutes ago, dooog said:

I used to love these books as a kid. Reread book 1 not so long ago and let's just say some things are best left in the past,. Overall I think there's tonnes of potential for a good show but it'd mean gutting an awful lot of the shit too.

My main concern would be the casting. WoT has an absolutely enormous number of characters and most of them are very young so will need to be actors in their early 20s or younger. The likes of Arya, Sansa and Bran's actors were fine for the first few seasons of GoT when they were children but their poor acting was very evident for the latter seasons. It's hard to find good talent with actors aged 16-22

Really looking forward to seeing how these books translate to television but the pessimist in me is saying this won't be a great success.

There is stuff that can be cut that will make the show better than the books in a lot of places, and I'm sure the producers are well aware of that. One thing I could do with less of is the women always saying "men are always doing such and such" and the men saying the same of women. I realize that even in our more "enlightened" age, we still do that, but it is excessive in this series.

I would say that most of the cast are very young is an overstatement. That is really only true of the super boys and girls. The Aes Sedai can't be old, certainly, but professional make up artists can do miracles, so I'm not concerned about that.

You can't compare it directly to GoT. Sansa was only 12 or 13 at the beginning of the series, whereas the super boys and girls in WoT are about 18 and 16, respectively. That's a big difference when you're talking about development of acting ability. Of course, they could always just age everything up about 3-5 years, such as the age people begin to channel. That would allow them more flexibility with casting the younger actors.

25 minutes ago, dooog said:

Also I have to completely agree with SansaJonRule in all of the above.  She's already answered most of it but I will go back to Min. How does casting a black actress for Min make any sense whatsoever? This is never how she's described, it's not how she is imagined, it's not how any fan art depicts her. It makes no fucking sense.

A lot of people seem overly concerned with racial diversity in the WoT tv, or more specifically, the lack of it. There is SO much diversity in Jordan's world, there is room for all. In season one, they'll be in Shienar. I don't know what the Companion book says, but I don't see why they can't be Asian or Eurasian. And I know that just because Tear is supposed to be influenced by Spain doesn't mean the people there have to be Latina, but it would fit well. (I have a Cuban friend who is very dark when she's tan.) I think there should be more difference between Tairens and the Sea Folk than just their clothes.

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8 minutes ago, Risto said:

Yes, I have seen him in "The Tudors". Overall, Cavill can act. The entire Superman business is someone else's fault.

:lol:  I only saw him in the subsequent one when they bring Superman back to life, so I can't judge that. But in "The Tudors" his character went from careless playboy to responsible lord to pathetic loser and he played it all well.

15 minutes ago, Risto said:

That said, I am with you. Unfortunately, Jordan's world is not easy because his mix of cultures in creative process makes a lot of roles borderline impossible to cast. We have such vast differences in perception of the same character - and we are not talking about actions or psyche, we are talking about the looks :D

Some are very distinctive, so much so that they are always described the same way, like copper skinned Domani, Saldleans with their slanted eyes and bold noses, short and fair Cairhien, and then the Aiel of course, dark skinned Sea Folk. Then others have a mixture like Andor and Tear. It is such a big, diverse world, much more so than Westeros was. I hope they can pull it off. What I don't want to see is little distinction between the countries because Jordan put so much into making most of them unique. I think some people want it to be treated like one big melting pot, like the U.S.

23 minutes ago, Risto said:

Ideally, the producers should use the already existing fanbase and expand it,

I know ASOIAF books have outsold WoT (since the tv show began), but WoT has been around longer and fans have had a lot more time to become immersed in it. We are almost like a cult!!

25 minutes ago, Risto said:

Jordan's world is so vibrant, so full of colors, full of magic and I hope they'll represent that accordingly. 

Except purple. I don't think there is ever purple, and the only pink is Ila's curtains (the Tinker) and Tylin's (or should I say Mat's) ribbons. I find that odd.

27 minutes ago, Risto said:

As for Harry Potter... The messy hair and the eyes :D Two things Radcliffe was never able to pull off. It was especially jarring during the 8th movie when Snape tells him "you have your mother's eyes." It is a small thing, but it is immensely important. 

YES!! I'm glad someone finds such details as important as I do. (As for his hair, it depended how long it was. It was messier when it was longer, esp in Goblet of Fire. But that's the hair stylist's fault, not Radcliffe's. :))

I actually am a little bugged that they couldn't find someone shorter to play Moiraine, because that is actually important to her personality. Her presence is commanding, NOT to be ignored, in spite of how short she is and it is remarked often in the books that she appears to be taller than she is because of air of complete command. It's like her short height actually amplifies that fact. Well, we can't have everything.

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3 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

The reason I said it seems to me to be PC is because you're wanting to change a character's description just for the sake of including a  very dark skinned person in the first season, no other reason. It doesn't enhance the story in any way. Jordan's world is quite diverse as it is, and we will see that by the second season (indications are that the first season will be books one and two, so they'll be in Tear by season 2). I like adaptations to stick to the books as closely as possible.

Except we can bet right now that there is no way that the Two Rivers characters are going to be cast as all non-white characters, except for Rand. If that is fine, I see no reason Siuan being cast to be played by a black actor isn't, either. I care very little for how closely the race of a fantasy character matches with the real world. WoT, especially, is a world where our racial divisions make no sense at all, since the Breaking just displaced all kinds of people who ended up living in locations far from where they started. Honestly, more than anything, I'd love if they do a completely race-blind casting for the roles, but I haven't seen any indication of that. So I'll hope for whatever I'd like to see.

...

Based on what I'm reading here, there's going to be some definite teeth gnashing and wailing as we get more casting news. For those not in the know, this is what Rafe Judkins has tweeted about race in WoT:

Quote

[A QUICK NOTE: race in the world of Wheel of Time is much less defined than in our world.

As much as possible, our cast should look like America will in a few hundred years—a beautiful mix of white, brown, black and everything in between]

I find it hilarious that people are concerned about the various WoT countries not being represented by the right racial groups. Some of the countries we spend most time in, like Andor, Altara and Tear, are very multi-ethnic in terms of character descriptions. Cairheing less so, and the Aiel the least, but there's literally no way they're going to find many 6 feet plus men and women redheads who are also deeply tanned and incredibly physically fit.

Aiel racial homogeneity never made much sense anyway. Yes, a subset of the Dashain made it to the Waste, but why would they be an ethnically homogenous subset anyway? I'm almost a 100% certain they're going to have the Aiel be multi-ethnic. I'm going to enjoy seeing all the rage and butthurt THAT causes.

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4 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

Jon Hamm could work for Gareth. I don't think he will be hard to cast though. He just needs to look like a hardened soldier and fairly tall.

Agreed. I’m just trying to get him in this show. There are so many great minor parts that could lift the quality of the series if done well. I’m also searching for a character that Matt Smith could play ;)

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2 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

It doesn't enhance the story in any way. Jordan's world is quite diverse as it is, and we will see that by the second season (indications are that the first season will be books one and two, so they'll be in Tear by season 2). I like adaptations to stick to the books as closely as possible.

Looking at this from the POV of Hollywood, there is certainly no guarantee of a second season. I hear you when it comes to being as true to the books as possible. That being said, from a production/show runner perspective if some small changes to character appearance can help garner a wider initial audience and thus lead to a second (and third and fourth) season then I get it. Especially if those changes are representative of today’s world and don’t necessarily alter the story in any meaningful way. 

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1 hour ago, Darth Richard II said:

Ugh no, Matt Smith is poison.

Hmm. I’ll admit I’m not an expert on his career but from what I know, Doctor Who and The Crown, he’s been great and his shows are highly rated and popular. What am I missing?

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3 hours ago, Joey Crows said:

Looking at this from the POV of Hollywood, there is certainly no guarantee of a second season. I hear you when it comes to being as true to the books as possible. That being said, from a production/show runner perspective if some small changes to character appearance can help garner a wider initial audience and thus lead to a second (and third and fourth) season then I get it. Especially if those changes are representative of today’s world and don’t necessarily alter the story in any meaningful way. 

Oh, it hurts my heart to even think there may not be a second season!

I get what you're saying, but Siuan won't even show up until Episode 6, and she's only one person. I can't see that making any real difference. I think the best opportunity for significant ethnic diversity in Season 1 is with the Shienarans.

I think it would be really cool to have Domani played by Native American actors (but how many are there?)`. And light skinned Black people too. They would both work well for the "coppery skinned" Domani. And we would see them in Falme since it is between Arad Doman and Tarabon, wouldn't we?

Personally, I would like to see the Sea Folk played by Black actors/actresses because they always seemed to me to be a different ethnicity from any people on the Randland continent. But maybe that's only my perception.

I wonder if in the tv show they will actually give the continent a name?

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6 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Did Asoiaf finally outsell WoT? I guess that’s a wert question since he’s the sales expert.

I doubt it. Individually, yes, as a series, not. The last info was that ASOIAF is on 60 million, and that WOT is on 100. 

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1 hour ago, Ran said:

I think the Sea Folk are probably more South Indian than African in terms of ethnicity. Sharans appear to be more like Africans, OTOH.

I always pictured Sharans as Chinese, but that's probably more because of the cultural similarities than any physical description in the text.

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44 minutes ago, Maltaran said:

I always pictured Sharans as Chinese, but that's probably more because of the cultural similarities than any physical description in the text.

I must admit, dark skinned sea-fairers always screamed Melanesian (/ Polynesian / Micronesian) to my mind's eye

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11 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

whereas the super boys and girls in WoT are about 18 and 16, respectively. That's a big difference when you're talking about development of acting ability. Of course, they could always just age everything up about 3-5 years, such as the age people begin to channel. That would allow them more flexibility with casting the younger actors.

Eh? Rand, Perrin, and Matt start off the series in their 20’s. Egwene and Elayne are 18. Nynaeve is 25 give or take a year. Min is 23 or 24. (I’m guessing with her. She complains a couple times about Rand being younger than her)

Or my mind is melting down faster than I thought it would. 

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17 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

I know ASOIAF books have outsold WoT (since the tv show began), but WoT has been around longer and fans have had a lot more time to become immersed in it. We are almost like a cult!!

I know that. The fanbase in Serbia has been one of the most loyal I have ever known. When the publisher had issues with translations, they organized and translated the books. There is a translation of "The New Spring" online. WoT fans are rather loyal to Jordan and his creations.

17 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

Except purple. I don't think there is ever purple, and the only pink is Ila's curtains (the Tinker) and Tylin's (or should I say Mat's) ribbons. I find that odd.

Well, there was a theory about Purple Ajah, wasn't there?

17 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

YES!! I'm glad someone finds such details as important as I do. (As for his hair, it depended how long it was. It was messier when it was longer, esp in Goblet of Fire. But that's the hair stylist's fault, not Radcliffe's. :))

Yeah, his hair was only messy in Movie 4. I also had issue with Hermione, which was considerably more beautiful (Miss Watson is a beautiful woman) than book version is. 

 

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Judkin’s comment about diversity in Randland (like how America would looks in hundreds of years) made me wonder if he’s saying that it is America of the future.  I’d always thought it was future Europe with Seanchan being America.  But maybe the breaking of the world switched them around.  Or it was just a random comment.

In any case, the idea that there’s going to be no minority ethnicities in the main cast, in current tv times, is just not going to fly.  At least one of the main guys or girls is going to be darker skinned than in the books.

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