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THE WHEEL OF TIME TV Show: The braid tugs, as the writing wills [BOOK SPOILERS]


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2 hours ago, David Selig said:

Rafe Judkins answered some questions about the Rosamund Pike's casting on Twitter today - http://www.thedailytrolloc.com/2019/07/rafes-rosamund-casting-q.html

Probably the most interesting answer was:

 

 

2 hours ago, Rhom said:

It’s like he’s been reading our Fox X-men thread for the last few weeks! :lol: 

That's a bit weak, though I don't want to get into it too much. However suffice it to say, Tom Cruise won't be cast as Loial without a helluva lot of SFX, and Jackman would not be cast as a Dwarf in a DnD / Warhammer movie without a lot of SFX. Physicality does matter in some situations. Arguably not for Cairhenen, I do agree with that. They are known to be a short people, but does it really play a significant role in the story or thematically?

The answer does sound like they are going to try to go for the ageless look for channelers.

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5 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

 

That's a bit weak, though I don't want to get into it too much. However suffice it to say, Tom Cruise won't be cast as Loial without a helluva lot of SFX, and Jackman would not be cast as a Dwarf in a DnD / Warhammer movie without a lot of SFX. Physicality does matter in some situations. Arguably not for Cairhenen, I do agree with that. They are known to be a short people, but does it really play a significant role in the story or thematically?

The answer does sound like they are going to try to go for the ageless look for channelers.

Just like Cruise would never be cast for a role like oh... say... Jack Reacher. :rolleyes:

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3 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Just like Cruise would never be cast for a role like oh... say... Jack Reacher. :rolleyes:

Jack Reacher casting is more like the inverse of the Moirane casting, not at all comparable to Loial. Since I don't really want to get a full on discussion going here I'll leave it at that.

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On 7/4/2019 at 2:24 AM, Werthead said:

Not sure what you mean here. RJ said - with affection - that the Land of the Madmen continent is a post-breaking Australia, and the continent least adversely transformed by the Breaking (which doesn't entirely make sense because male channellers still live there, but whatever).

Sorry, I let the tone and nuance get lost in that one. I was just joking that in the present time Australia is not entirely peopled with mad men. We're entirely peopled with criminals.

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Was a big fan of these books growing up. Some casting thoughts:

  • Ruby Rose as Min (just dial down the punk attitude slightly)
  • Krystin Ritter as Lanfear
  • Liam Hemsworth as Perrin (Gendry was pretty lean for a blacksmith so is plausible)
  • Dane DeHaan as Fain (might be too young)
  • Andrew Garfield as Mat
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On 7/3/2019 at 3:07 PM, Rhom said:

It’s like he’s been reading our Fox X-men thread for the last few weeks! :lol: 

/Looks around the thread suspiciously.... Who's Rafe....

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On 7/1/2019 at 12:06 PM, Werthead said:

Hell no, if you're going to get Thompson, you get her to play Cadsuane

That's what I thought at first, but there have been a couple other suggestions for Cadsuane that are even better. Meryl Streep for one, and I can't remember who the other is.

And I would like to see Thompson play an Aes Sedai whose character is more multi faceted. Don't get me wrong, Cadsuane is all kinds of awesome, but her personality is STERN, and that 's pretty much it IIRC. Adeleas is a Brown, and they're known for being kind of spacey, but Moiraine notes that she possesses much of a Green's personality as well. I think Adeleas is more suited to Thompson's talents, the greatest of which IMO is her facial expressions. Of course all this is mute since she is doing "Prime Time" :(

I haven't watched "Prime Time" yet, but I love her even in the previews! Has anyone seen it? My favorite Emma Thompson movie is "Much Ado about Nothing". LOVE it!

I wonder if even one of the actors/actresses we want will end up in the show. Not likely.

On 7/1/2019 at 11:44 PM, The Anti-Targ said:

I was 30-something, so to me Nynaeve was more like my idle fantasy, with woman roughly my age. I don't think I thought of her being in her 20s though. And of course in pre-industrial "European" village times if you were 25 and not married with at least a couple of kids you were an old maid and well past your prime.

Nyaneave was your fantasy? You liked controlling, bad tempered women when you were in your 30s? :lol:

On 6/30/2019 at 11:37 PM, dooog said:

Aging up everyone could work but it breaks down a lot of things too, particularly book 1. Couple of examples.  Egwene and Rand having their young fleeting love thing, if they were older they'd likely be married in that world. Or the justification of Nynaeve tagging along when the group leave Emond's Field in the first place, she's this young matriarch concerned over a bunch of teenagers under her care leaving with a couple of strangers... if Rand etc were all fully grown adults that makes no sense

I thought of that. The customs would have to be "aged up" a little bit too. I think they could age them up just 2-3 years and it would still work. It would just make the Two Rivers more like 19th century Europe and America than medieval. And it would make casting easier. The biggest problem is that if the show runs 8 years or so (which probably means 10 years in terms of production time), and the books only cover 3 years, so at the end the youngsters would be about 7 years older than their characters. But that's not insurmountable.

No offense to those of you in this age group, but early to mid-twenties are not fully grown adults. Physically, but not mentally ad emotionally. They are still quite young. That is backed up by scientific evidence as well as observation.

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3 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

That's what I thought at first, but there have been a couple other suggestions for Cadsuane that are even better. Meryl Streep for one, and I can't remember who the other is.

And I would like to see Thompson play an Aes Sedai whose character is more multi faceted. Don't get me wrong, Cadsuane is all kinds of awesome, but her personality is STERN, and that 's pretty much it IIRC. Adeleas is a Brown, and they're known for being kind of spacey, but Moiraine notes that she possesses much of a Green's personality as well. I think Adeleas is more suited to Thompson's talents, the greatest of which IMO is her facial expressions. Of course all this is mute since she is doing "Prime Time" :(.

Emma Thompson is "gettable" for the project though (she just did a TV show for Russell T. Davis here in the UK), Meryl Streep is not really "gettable". HBO were very lucky to have her for one season of that show, but that's Prestige City HBO and some of Streep's friends were already on it.

If you are going to get Thompson, then Adeleas is way, way too tiny a role for her. Even if you combined her and Vandene into one character, they still have about thirty lines of dialogue combined across the entire series and sometimes entire books pass without either of them doing very much. If you're going to get Thompson to play an Aes Sedai, it really has to be Cadsuane, Verin or Elaida, regularly-appearing characters with a lot going on.

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2 hours ago, Werthead said:

Emma Thompson is "gettable" for the project though (she just did a TV show for Russell T. Davis here in the UK), Meryl Streep is not really "gettable". HBO were very lucky to have her for one season of that show, but that's Prestige City HBO and some of Streep's friends were already on it.

If you are going to get Thompson, then Adeleas is way, way too tiny a role for her. Even if you combined her and Vandene into one character, they still have about thirty lines of dialogue combined across the entire series and sometimes entire books pass without either of them doing very much. If you're going to get Thompson to play an Aes Sedai, it really has to be Cadsuane, Verin or Elaida, regularly-appearing characters with a lot going on.

I know Adeleas is not near as big a character as Cadsuane, but I thought she had more than what you say. She was very prominent among the sisters in Camelyn who are dealing with the Kin. She'd be great as Elaida, but Elaida (and Verin) will both appear beginning in season 1 and Thompson is currently doing "Prime Time" for Amazon. Production could overlap.

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Vandene and Adeleas are barely characters. We know very little about them, and they really so so little that there's every chance they'll be cut from the show, and if not, will be tertiary characters played by relatively unknown actors.

Emma Thompson would be an excellent Verin too, by the way. She isn't plump, but the way she played Trelawny in Harry Potter would fit perfectly for Verin when she's pretending to be a prime example of the Brown Ajah. And then take in those usually thrilling moments when the intelligence and patient cunning shine through... I think Thompson absolutely has the range to pull that off.

 

Verin is a prime example of a character who they could easily expand, like they plan to with Logain. Her triple agent shenanigans require quite a bit of acting range, and make it a meaty enough role and I think they could get Thompson to bite.

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50 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said:

Verin is a prime example of a character who they could easily expand, like they plan to with Logain. Her triple agent shenanigans require quite a bit of acting range, and make it a meaty enough role and I think they could get Thompson to bite.

Agreed that Verin could def be expanded. I think I'd prefer Thompson in that role. And for Cadsuane, bare with me here, maybe someone like Patricia Clarkson.

Also, are they planning to expand Logain's role? I hadn't heard that.

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15 hours ago, SansaJonRule said:

Nyaneave was your fantasy? You liked controlling, bad tempered women when you were in your 30s? :lol:

 

I was already married with children, so I guess I was fantasizing about my wife in the end? Ugh, boring.

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On 7/5/2019 at 2:32 PM, Vels said:

Was a big fan of these books growing up. Some casting thoughts:

  • Ruby Rose as Min (just dial down the punk attitude slightly)
  • Krystin Ritter as Lanfear
  • Liam Hemsworth as Perrin (Gendry was pretty lean for a blacksmith so is plausible)
  • Dane DeHaan as Fain (might be too young)
  • Andrew Garfield as Mat

I feel like Krysten Ritter could be a red who hasn't gone bad. Perhaps one of the Reds that go and watchdog the Black Tower. She suits being someone who is pretty sharp edged and hard of heart, but still with her head in the right place.

Does Ruby Rose play non-lesbian characters? I think everything I've seen her in her character is a lesbian. Who are some significant tower characters who have pillow friends? Ugh, that's one thing I think they need to get a bit more woke about. Lesbian relationships in the Tower being out and proud, not talked in hushed tones using euphemisms.

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1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I feel like Krysten Ritter could be a red who hasn't gone bad. Perhaps one of the Reds that go and watchdog the Black Tower. She suits being someone who is pretty sharp edged and hard of heart, but still with her head in the right place.

Does Ruby Rose play non-lesbian characters? I think everything I've seen her in her character is a lesbian. Who are some significant tower characters who have pillow friends? Ugh, that's one thing I think they need to get a bit more woke about. Lesbian relationships in the Tower being out and proud, not talked in hushed tones using euphemisms.

Galina Casban is definitely gay, though she doesn't have that much time in the story, though her role in book 6 is significant.

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Obviously they can't include every character, so the writers are going to have to plan out the arc for each major thread and make sure they populate each of those with the minimum number of characters to tell the story.

The Black Ajah arc for instance needs:

  • Verin
  • A leader of the Black Ajah in the Tower
  • a few lieutenants and foot soldiers of the BA who interact with the main characters storylines, as well as the Asha'man.
  • A few non-BA to try to uncover them in the Tower, including some who get forceably turned.

At minimum they need a Black coming from every Ajah, to show how widespread it is, so seven is a good number for the lieutenants and foot soldiers, in terms of named characters.  The rest can be extras.

For the Forsaken there is no way around casting all 13.

For the Whitecloaks, they need Pedron Niall, at least one Bornhald, Valda, Carridin, maybe Byars and some extras.

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18 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

Obviously they can't include every character, so the writers are going to have to plan out the arc for each major thread and make sure they populate each of those with the minimum number of characters to tell the story.

The Black Ajah arc for instance needs:

  • Verin
  • A leader of the Black Ajah in the Tower
  • a few lieutenants and foot soldiers of the BA who interact with the main characters storylines, as well as the Asha'man.
  • A few non-BA to try to uncover them in the Tower, including some who get forceably turned.

At minimum they need a Black coming from every Ajah, to show how widespread it is, so seven is a good number for the lieutenants and foot soldiers, in terms of named characters.  The rest can be extras.

For the Forsaken there is no way around casting all 13.

For the Whitecloaks, they need Pedron Niall, at least one Bornhald, Valda, Carridin, maybe Byars and some extras.

I'd say you definitely need Liandrin, as the fairly prominent face of the Black Ajah for their first few appearances.

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34 minutes ago, Werthead said:

I'd say you definitely need Liandrin, as the fairly prominent face of the Black Ajah for their first few appearances.

Yes, but they may need to keep her around a lot longer than Liandrin was in the books, just to avoid having to introduce new characters to play the same part in the arc.  Too many characters and viewers will will start to notice a lot of them are basically the same personality-wise.

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4 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

Yes, but they may need to keep her around a lot longer than Liandrin was in the books, just to avoid having to introduce new characters to play the same part in the arc.  Too many characters and viewers will will start to notice a lot of them are basically the same personality-wise.

Which is why they could and should give more time to the Forsaken. They'll likely have a lot of time for Lanfear and Moghedien. But Semirhage, Graendal, and Mesaana could be given more. For example, I think Mesaana could take Alviarin's place. She takes controls of the BA in the Tower, and rises through the non-suspicious ranks of the Aes Sedai, becoming Elaida's Keeper and true power in the Tower, making her eventual defeat by Egwene that much grander and more satisfying. 

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