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namesarehard

Horns

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House Celtigar is supposed to hold the Kraken Horn.

Euron has something he calls the Dragon Horn.

Stannis burned what was called the Horn of Winter.

Then there's the horn Jon found. Sam has it now if I'm not mistaken. That's probably the real Horn of Winter.

Are they all related? Are there any more?

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Assuming there really are unicorns on Skagos, maybe Osha and Rickon will bring us something fun in the horn department.

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On 6/27/2019 at 3:07 PM, namesarehard said:

House Celtigar is supposed to hold the Kraken Horn.

Euron has something he calls the Dragon Horn.

Stannis burned what was called the Horn of Winter.

Then there's the horn Jon found. Sam has it now if I'm not mistaken. That's probably the real Horn of Winter.

Are they all related? Are there any more?

Horn of Winter and Dragon Horns are (IMO) red herrings. 

FAB gives us detailed historical accounts of Targaryen and Velaryon dragon riders. Bugger all mention of using Horns to control or bond with a dragon, whether a hatchling or a full grown monster like Vhagar or Balerion. 

The Horn that Mance found in the Frostfangs was a total dud. Probably no real Horn of Winter either. 

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Yeah, the Valaryians didn't use a horn to control the dragons but that doesn't mean there isn't a horn like that. That horn scorched a guy's lungs.

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The horn Mance found and Melisandre burned is probably a fake. IMO Mance only pretended to have the Horn of Winter.

The horn Ghost found was probably set there by Coldhands and Bloodraven. Maybe not the Horn of Joramun. But something important still.

Euron's horn does things. Moqorro also believes the horn can bind dragons. So I expect it can and it will.

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Not to mention that Tormund laughed at Jon when he said they burned the Horn of Joramun and stated that Mance was just bluffing (not that Tormund isn’t capable of lying but I doubt anybody but the most serious of crackpots doesn’t believe him on this). I assume its Sam’s horn (like many other readers do).

And I don’t think there’s any chance Dragonbinder is just a red herring. I mean it did burn that guys’ insides up. It might not work how expected (at least not how Victarion expects), but if George just up and made all of the horns red herrings I think that’d be pretty lame.

Also I’m fairly certain a red herring has be distracting from something else to be a red herring by definition, so what do you think the horns are distracting us from?

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8 hours ago, Likely Luke Strong said:

 

Also I’m fairly certain a red herring has be distracting from something else to be a red herring by definition, so what do you think the horns are distracting us from?

Good question!! 

 

I just hope they aren't further examples of GRRM writing himself into a corner with his "gardening" approach and no clear way to resolve them in final books...

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I think there’s two possibilities:

1 - The Dragon horn isn’t meant to bind dragons. It calls wild dragons to a location and then causes them to destroy anything in the area. So the Valyrians wheel one up in a siege and goodbye fortress. Also goodbye Meereen unless somebody tames or kills those two. Or it could just be a big old dog whistle. Assuming that only a Valyrian capable of bonding the dragon would sound it.

2 - The horn actually binds people to dragons; not dragons to people. In other words giving them the blood of the dragon. So in theory Vic could tame a dragon but it also could make him insane and the spell could be corrupted by Euron. 

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On 7/14/2019 at 12:15 PM, namesarehard said:

Yeah, the Valaryians didn't use a horn to control the dragons but that doesn't mean there isn't a horn like that. That horn scorched a guy's lungs.

Could be a trap to play a bad joke on dragon thieves.

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Expect the unexpected if the horn makers are playing a bad joke.  The prettiest horn is probably a dud.  It's the homely one that has the real power.  

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2 hours ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

Could be a trap to play a bad joke on dragon thieves.

Could be.

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Posted (edited)

We all expect something nasty. But if Victarion dies, the horn is lost to Euron. I believe he expects Victarion will succeed. Then kill him to get the dragon for himself. Once bound to his blood. I also feel Moqorro is expecting to use Victarion against his brother. So I don't think anyone want Victarion dead right now. I don't think his Meereen's expedition will end like Quentyn's. The IB have no Gerris or Archibald to continue after his death.

On 7/15/2019 at 3:24 AM, Likely Luke Strong said:

Also I’m fairly certain a red herring has be distracting from something else

BTW, do we have examples of red herrings by GRRM?

I was convinced all ADWD that Tyrion would come to Daenerys' help. But it didn't. With her coming back to the Dothrakis, the IB and the Red Priests seeking her, and the rise of Aegon, I'm not even sure it will ever happen.

Here, the he dusky woman could be just that distraction.

Edited by BalerionTheCat

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1 hour ago, BalerionTheCat said:

 

BTW, do we have examples of red herrings by GRRM?

The stories of Jon's parentage, e.g Ned Dayne telling Arya, Borrell to Davos, even the story of Bael the bard had me convinced on first read that Mance was Jon's father...

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13 hours ago, Ser Uncle P said:

The stories of Jon's parentage, e.g Ned Dayne telling Arya, Borrell to Davos, even the story of Bael the bard had me convinced on first read that Mance was Jon's father...

OK. One could call red herring the stories about Jon's mother, Wylla, Ashara, the fisherman's daughter. But R+L=J is so much a "fact" for me :), that I just see these stories as "talk of ignorant people about what they don't know".

But how do you come to think Mance is Jon's father? Did Ned find a baby somewhere and claimed him for his own? Or was Mance at the ToJ with Lyanna? With Rhaegar's guards? Or are you of the "Mance is Rhaegar"?

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16 hours ago, BalerionTheCat said:

OK. One could call red herring the stories about Jon's mother, Wylla, Ashara, the fisherman's daughter. But R+L=J is so much a "fact" for me :), that I just see these stories as "talk of ignorant people about what they don't know".

But how do you come to think Mance is Jon's father? Did Ned find a baby somewhere and claimed him for his own? Or was Mance at the ToJ with Lyanna? With Rhaegar's guards? Or are you of the "Mance is Rhaegar"?

I don't think Mance is Jon's father...I said "on first read" ie nearly ten years ago when I first read the books, I thought Mance might be, based on the Bael story...I later re read AGOT and caught the Tower of Joy flashback properly the second time.  

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The Night's Watch could very well be a horn too.

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come.

 

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Posted (edited)

Euron's horn will kill the person who blows and set their soul on fire. It seems it kills the person who blows it by burning them inside out.

So if there is a connected pattern to the horns, then logically the others should do the following.

The horn of winter should freeze the person who blows it from inside to out and turn their soul to ice.

The Kraken horn of lord Celitigar should cause the person who blows it to suffocate/drown but turn their soul to water.

 

In practice Euron's horn allows a person to second life a dragon. If someone were to attempt to second life a dragon without the horn having set their soul on fire their soul would simply burn and they'd be forced out (what happened to Varamyr in his eagle) or simply consumed.

Similarly the horn of winter probably allows a person to second life/become an ice dragon or Other.

And the kraken horn probably allows a person to second life a kraken (and other underwater life), whereas someone's soul who hadn't been made water by the horn would simply drown.

 

That said the horns are not the only way to do these things, they're just a tool created to streamline the magic process. Drogo second lifed Drogon and Aeron will second life a leviathan without any horns.

Edited by chrisdaw

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