Elemental symbolism

[Aldarion]

I had been doing research for my writing project (fantasy) when I came across this:

https://www.learnreligions.com/elemental-symbols-4122788

It seems that elements and elemental magic are important in Martin's world. So, to sum up what I took from the above link:

Elemental magic is based on four primary elements: fire, water, air and earth. Secondary elements are ice (water + air, cold and moist) and lava (fire + earth, warm and dry). Lava covers vulcanic activity and its products, such as obsidian.

Fifth element is aether, or immaterium. It is a realm of spiritual, and does not usually interact with material world.

Warm elements point upwards, ascending towards the spiritual realm, and are masculine, associated with light, warmth and activity (life). Cold elements point downwards, descending towards the material realm, and are feminine, associated with darkness, cold and passivity (death). Elements can also be moist and dry.

Air is moist like water and warm like fire, but has nothing in common with earth. Air and earth are thus opposites, as are water and fire. Likewise, ice and lava are in direct opposition and destroy each other.

Elements are hierarchical, going from earth to heaven. Earth is the lowest of elements, most material of them and associated with death. Spirit is the highest element, followed hierarchically by fire, air, water and earth.

Elements are represented by the pentagram. Point-up pentagram symbolizes spirit ruling over other four elements, and is thus associated with life and God. Point-down pentagram symbolizes dominance of the material, and is thus associated with death and Devil.

Geographically, North is associated with earth, new moon, winter and midnight. South is associated with fire, full moon, summer and noon. West is associated with water, waning moon, autumn and sunset. East is associated with air, waxing moon, spring and sunrise.

Fire is element of fullness and life, and is associated with Sun. Earth corresponds with midnight, winter and new moon; thus with potential and transformation, introduction of the new. Air is the element of new beginnings, youth, increase and creativity; it is associated with spring, waxing moon and sunrise. Water is the element of emotion and wisdom, and represents the time past the peak of livelihood.

Fire is associated with strength, activity, blood and life-force. It is highly purifying and protective, consuming impurities and driving back the darkness. It is most rarified and spiritual of elements, lacks physical existence, produces light and has transformative power. It is warm and dry, masculine (active). Its elemental is salamander, direction South, color red, magical tools are sword, athame and dagger, planets Sun and Mars, season Summer and time Noon.

Air is the element of intelligence, creativity and beginnings. Intangible and without permanent form, it is an active, masculine element, superior to material elements of water and earth. It is warm and moist, masculine (active). Its elementals are sylphs (invisible beings), direction East, color yellow, magical tools are wand, sword, dagger and athame, planet Jupiter, season Spring and time Sunrise.

Water is the element of emotion and unconscious, opposed to conscious intellectuallism of air. It is less material, and thus superior, to earth, and one of two elements that can interact with all physical senses. It is cold and moist, feminine (passive). Its elementals are undines (water-based nymphs), direction West, color blue, magical tool cup, planets Moon and Venus, season Fall and time Sunset.

Earth is the element of stability, groundedness, fertility, materiality, potential and stillness. It is also an element of beginnings and endings, death and rebirth. It is cold and dry, feminine (passive). Its elementals are gnomes, direction North, color green, magical tool Pentacle, planets Saturn, season Winter and time of day Midnight.

Spirit has no classical associations. It is a bridge between the physical and spiritual, between body and the soul.

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Now, to go with Martin:

Starks are associated with ice, cold and North. Association with North (earth, new moon, Winter and midnight) points to their dual association with Ice and Earth. Ice itself is, in fact, a combination of properties of elements of Water (cold, passive) and Earth (cold, dry). They are thus stable, grounded and still, but also very hard to kill (beginnings and endings, death and rebirth). Likewise, in opposition to their groundedness (from Earth) stands their propensity towards unconscious emotion (from Water), shown in quite few rash actions (Brandon challenging the Mad King, Ned going South, Robb marrying Jeyne etc.). Association with Winter is clear in already noted ice and cold, and from title of Kings of Winter; but it also points towards readiness for hardships.

Targaryens are associated with fire, warmth and South, and maybe also air. Their association with South, Fire and Air stands in opposition to Stark association with North, Ice and Earth. Fire definitely points towards strength, activity and passion, all of which appear to be Targaryen hallmarks (Rhaegar lost his life for it). Air likewise points to intelligence, creativity and beginnings, much like Targaryens creating the Seven Kingdoms. Association with South - fire, full moon, Summer and noon - again points to activity, creation and growth, but also to destruction.

The Others are associated with ice, cold and North. As noted, Ice is a combination of Water and Earth. From them they take properties of cold, passivity, but also stability and stillness. Earth is an element of death and rebirth, which can be seen in how Others kill people and then raise them again as Wights.

Children of the Forest are associated with earth, life and North. Element of earth can be seen in their association with Weirwoods: they are symbols of life - and due to their ability to communicate, they symbolize life through Westeros.

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I tried to find associations in Lannisters (West), but they did not hold strongly. It seems that Starks and Targaryens are ones which matter in mythological sense.

Thoughts?

[It_spelt_Magalhaes]

I hope it's ok but I totally pulled your thread into a discussion of Arya's character by @Lady Dacey. 

Maybe the West and autumn associations are more to the Reach houses as they're more connected to the harvest? The Lannisters' political position as wardens and even lords of Casterly Rock are the result of Lann the Clever tricking the original Kings out of the Rock. 

Same way it might just be me and confirmation bias to make things fit, but the Durrandon kings as Baratheon ancestors would be prime representatives for most of the traits you described for air? But their Targaryen connection would fit very well to add the worst traits of the Baratheon line?

[Lady Dacey]

Hey there. There are lots to explore here of course.

Unraleted to my thread but maybe relevant to this one, maybe the OP will like these:

 

• Very intellectual and high in the air would be the Arryn's of the Vale, to the east, As High as Honor. Blue and white. Moon and falcon.

 

• To the west and very watery indeed are the Iron Islanders. Although not 'passive' one could argue they are not the most rational of peoples, being driven instead by emotions, which is a 'feminine' trait according to the classical associations (gods I hate this gender-coding). 

[It_spelt_Magalhaes]

5 minutes ago, Lady Dacey said:

Hey there. There are lots to explore here of course.

Unraleted to my thread but maybe relevant to this one, maybe the OP will like these:

 

• Very intellectual and high in the air would be the Arryn's of the Vale, to the east, As High as Honor. Blue and white. Moon and falcon.

 

• To the west and very watery indeed are the Iron Islanders. Although not 'passive' one could argue they are not the most rational of peoples, being driven instead by emotions, which is a 'feminine' trait according to the classical associations (gods I hate this gender-coding). 

Ah, gender typing. Passivity as a female trait. How prosaic. 

Sorry about the melanging of threads, but I was just reading here when I caught the notification and my neurons sort of backfired?

[Aldarion]

2 hours ago, It_spelt_Magalhaes said:

I hope it's ok but I totally pulled your thread into a discussion of Arya's character by @Lady Dacey. 

Maybe the West and autumn associations are more to the Reach houses as they're more connected to the harvest? The Lannisters' political position as wardens and even lords of Casterly Rock are the result of Lann the Clever tricking the original Kings out of the Rock. 

Same way it might just be me and confirmation bias to make things fit, but the Durrandon kings as Baratheon ancestors would be prime representatives for most of the traits you described for air? But their Targaryen connection would fit very well to add the worst traits of the Baratheon line?

No problem, I like it when my work is appreciated.

I do not know/remember enough about Reach houses to either confirm or deny your suggestion, so feel free to write your own post about it.

Baratheons, in the present-day at least, are defined by anger. Ours is the fury. In fact, they are very much like Targaryens in that manner: their fury burns hot and intense. So essentially everything I wrote about Targaryens also applies to Baratheons; both houses would be defined by fire and air. It is often forgotten, but IIRC all three Baratheon siblings are described as intelligent; even Robert was smart, but he lacked patience to apply that intelligence to anything not related to combat. As for Durrandon kings, I do not know if or how different they were from present-day Baratheons, so I cannot comment on that; sorry.

EDIT:

@Lady DaceyRegarding Greyjoys, they are associated with water. They live on islands, which are - as it happens - located in the West. Greyjoys themselves are very clearly emotional and uncoscious, as you point out - see how quickly they rebel even when it brings them no long-term advantages, and in fact they quickly loose almost all their gains. Simply because Balon wanted revenge. Water being cold also brings it in association with death (cold as death), though nowhere as much as ice; see Greyjoy saying "What is dead may never die".

[Lady Dacey]

2 hours ago, It_spelt_Magalhaes said:

Sorry about the melanging of threads, but I was just reading here when I caught the notification and my neurons sort of backfired?

nothing to be sorry for! I enjoyed it.

[Lollygag]

@Aldarion

Great topic! I've noticed this, too but you've really fleshed it out with some added information I've not explored, so thanks!

I see where all of the major houses fit into elemental categorizations, some more debatable than others. Each seems to have a primary and then a more loosey-goosey secondary one, and then perhaps a third is prominent in some cases.

On the side, I think GRRM is writing the story where it needs to go, is taking the characters where they need to be, and is expressing themes as they need to be expressed. I don't think he's prioritize any arbitrary structures or categorizations (if there indeed are any) over of any of these more important things. So, I'm not sure that GRRM is doing anything too special here. Maybe it just became a frame work for laying out Westeros and the families so I tend to not see it as anything too rigid and more as a different way of exploring this world.

 

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Houses_of_Westeros

We have Westeros divided into 9 here and things work out nicely based off of this.

 

North – Stark (Earth, Water)

Iron Islands – Greyjoy (Water, Air)

Riverlands – Tully (Water, Fire)

Vale  - Arryn  (Air, Earth)

Westerlands  - Lannister (Earth, Fire)

Reach – Tyrell (see below)

Stormlands – Baratheon (Air, Water)

Dorne – Martell (Fire, Earth)

Crownlands – Targaryen (Dragonstone) (Fire, Air)

Earth

Primary – Lannister (The Rock, mines)

Primary – Stark (wierwood trees, underground, crypts, stone, it's been pointed out the forum by I wish I could recall that whenever a Stark tries to hide behind stone be it literal or a name (Alayne Stone, Stoneheart), they always find safety)

 

Secondary – Arryn (Mountains, stone)

Secondary – Martel (sand)

Fire

Primary – Martel (sun)

Primary – Targs (duh)

 

Secondary – Lannister (lion as sun, gold)

Secondary – Tully (Kissed by Fire)

Water

Primary – Tully (fish, rivers)

Primary – Greyjoy (What is dead may never die, Drowned God, ships)

 

Secondary – Stark (ice, snow)

Secondary – Baratheon (descended from Elenei, the daughter of the sea god, and the source of their black hair

Air

Primary – Baratheon (storm)

Primary – Arryn (Eyrie, as High as Honor)

 

Secondary – Targs (flight via dragon)

Secondary – Greyjoy (Sailing requires wind)

Tyrell

Initially, the Tyrells seem linked to Earth, but on reflection, they’re not about earth like the Starks (weirwoods, caves, crypts) or the Lannisters (caves, mines, gold) but about growth and the cycle of life. This is the origin of Garth Greenhand, the Three Singers, Oldtown, and the Citadel. All four elements are needed for a proper life cycle and it represents balance and this seems important in a story where balance is so out of whack.

Changing subjects, the elemental organization applies nicely to the 4 POV Stark kids. Four Stark kids, four elements. I'm intrigued by the find of a spirit element if it can be called that as that's a great fit for Robb/Greywind. Again, I'm not about trying to force these too much so much as just playing with them.

 

·         Bran is tied to Earth. He’s in a cave, tapped into trees.

·         Arya is possibly mastering water magic. The FM oppose fire. Their magic is about changeability and water is the most changeable of the four elements being able to take vapor, liquid or solid forms. Water’s shape changes to that of its container, so what the FM do might be a form of water magic as they put on a “container” in the form of a face and become no one, or let the container shape them. Now Nymeria’s name makes sense if Arya is in fact mastering a water magic from the the Rhoyne. Also, a lot of Syrio’s instruction to Arya can be summarized as “be like water”, and in fact, she was learning water dancing. It can be argued that Arya is a Bolton having been married by proxy via Jeyne Poole and the symbolism when Arya was escaping Roose leans heavily to Arya Bolton. The Boltons do skin like the FM, and seem rather different. Maybe Other-y. If the Boltons are in fact connected to the Others, and what they do sounds similar to what the FM do, then the Boltons performing a similar water magic and being connected to the Others makes sense.

·         Jon would be linked to fire if the story goes a certain direction but I wouldn't say that's the case now. Jon was pretty strongly linked to fire in AGOT, but since then it's been almost non-existent beyond kissed by fire and weirwoods, so who knows. But if we're looking at Starks proper, Shaggydog is repeated described as having wildfire eyes and Rickon has a scary, out-of-control temper (attacks Luwin, goes against Bran in showing the Freys the crypts which is a "Stark place", Shaggy has to be tied up). Rickon's a Burn it All! type of kid.

·         Sansa is left with air, and is already connected to air through the Eyrie and the “little bird” nickname. She’s often described as wearing sky blue, having her head in the clouds (dreams and fairy tales) and is perceived as a bit of an air-head. I’m not exactly sure how this could play out in the story, but if Sansa could warg Lady’s spirit who is obviously non-corporeal, then she could sort of warg air, or something like that. RL gods associated with death are often connected to air because that’s where spirits/souls are perceived to hang out. Lady’s death may have been necessary to connect Sansa to air.

 

 

[Melifeather]

I don't know if it fits, but I associate the Lannisters with water since Tywin drowned the Reynes and Cersei pushed her friend Melara down a well. 

On 6/30/2019 at 5:21 AM, Aldarion said:

Water is the element of emotion and unconscious, opposed to conscious intellectuallism of air. It is less material, and thus superior, to earth, and one of two elements that can interact with all physical senses. It is cold and moist, feminine (passive). Its elementals are undines (water-based nymphs), direction West, color blue, magical tool cup, planets Moon and Venus, season Fall and time Sunset.

 

Outwardly you may not associate Tywin with emotions, but he's very revenge oriented as is Cersei.

[It_spelt_Magalhaes]

@Lollygag pulled out the Storm aspect of the Baratheon ancestry, where they got their sigil and colors from much better than I would have. The Stormlands seem very connected to sea faring and from there I also got Air, a yellow banner and their constant activity and even aggressive, masculine aspect. The Storm Kings were a bit glory hounds,  But I'm with you that the Baratheons from the present seem more in tune with the Fire aspect of their Targaryen ancestry, near and far, like a violent thunderstorm.

As to the Reach, my idea was that the harvest aspect of the Water and Fall imagery would fit, water into wine and all that, but I def bow to yours and @Lady Dacey's characterization of the Iron Born. If there's a people who 'is' and 'lives' the Sea, it is them.

[Aldarion]

59 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

I don't know if it fits, but I associate the Lannisters with water since Tywin drowned the Reynes and Cersei pushed her friend Melara down a well. 

Outwardly you may not associate Tywin with emotions, but he's very revenge oriented as is Cersei.

Yes, that does work. As you point out, Lannisters' motivations are emotional: Tywin's motivation stems from his witnessing the humiliation of his father, while Cersei's motivation stems from her own (perceived) humiliation. Both seek to prevent humiliation, and get enraged and vengeful when they feel they are wronged. On the more base level, all three siblings are extremely emotion-driven: witness Jamie's and Cersei's incestuous relationship, Jamie pushing Bran out of the window, and Tyrion's whoring and hating of the whole world. All of this is associated with Water. And much like element of water is associated with West, Lannister power base is in the Westerlands. Further, waning moon, autumn and sunset point to an end of an age: Tywin Lannister brought end to Targaryen age, and Cersei Lannister brought end to Baratheon age.

-----

Now, Tullys are associated with water. Their sigil is fish above a stream, and their seat of power is Riverrun. Water being an element of emotion has very clear outlet in actions of Catelyn Stark nee Tully before the War of the Five Kings: her overemotional overreaction basically caused the war (again, end of an age). Later on, Edmure also shows himself to be emotional, allowing his pride to rule him and pull him into a battle that, as far as I am aware, was unnecessary (though that is not entirely clear). More clear is his response to Mountain's raiding - allowing all smallfolk shelter within Riverrun was wholly emotional and wholly impractical.

However, water is also an element of wisdom. This is shown in Brynden Tully (Blackfish), who serves as an advisor to Robb Stark, and is considered a very smart and dangerous commander. Him being old reinforces this connection, as water is particularly connected with wisdom of age, but also with time past the peak of the livelihood.

[Melifeather]

30 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

Yes, that does work. As you point out, Lannisters' motivations are emotional: Tywin's motivation stems from his witnessing the humiliation of his father, while Cersei's motivation stems from her own (perceived) humiliation. Both seek to prevent humiliation, and get enraged and vengeful when they feel they are wronged. On the more base level, all three siblings are extremely emotion-driven: witness Jamie's and Cersei's incestuous relationship, Jamie pushing Bran out of the window, and Tyrion's whoring and hating of the whole world. All of this is associated with Water. And much like element of water is associated with West, Lannister power base is in the Westerlands. Further, waning moon, autumn and sunset point to an end of an age: Tywin Lannister brought end to Targaryen age, and Cersei Lannister brought end to Baratheon age.

-----

Now, Tullys are associated with water. Their sigil is fish above a stream, and their seat of power is Riverrun. Water being an element of emotion has very clear outlet in actions of Catelyn Stark nee Tully before the War of the Five Kings: her overemotional overreaction basically caused the war (again, end of an age). Later on, Edmure also shows himself to be emotional, allowing his pride to rule him and pull him into a battle that, as far as I am aware, was unnecessary (though that is not entirely clear). More clear is his response to Mountain's raiding - allowing all smallfolk shelter within Riverrun was wholly emotional and wholly impractical.

However, water is also an element of wisdom. This is shown in Brynden Tully (Blackfish), who serves as an advisor to Robb Stark, and is considered a very smart and dangerous commander. Him being old reinforces this connection, as water is particularly connected with wisdom of age, but also with time past the peak of the livelihood.

I was going to include the Greyjoys as being associated with water also, but you specifically asked about the Lannisters.

The Greyjoys worship two gods: the Drowned God who is obviously a water diety, but they also recognize the Storm God which is a wind diety. Depending on temperature the combination of the two gods can be ice. Recall also that Duran Godsgrief's wife Elenei, was the daughter of two gods: the sea god (water) and the goddess of the wind (air), so mixing these two elements indicates "magic" and a connection to ether.

I think it's a mistake to to say that ice is simply a secondary or combination of two elements. In my opinion you should recognize any combinations as being magical, because a combination requires "ether" (magic). The Greyjoys and the Starks are both associated with the combined element of "ice", so they are both connected to magic.

I theorize that the Drowned God is actually imprisoned into the Wall, while the ether is being blown about upon the cold wind. It's what raises the wights and makes white walkers possible. Just look at the similarities between the Nights Watch and their men that die north of the Wall who rise as wights (harder and stronger) and the Greyjoy practice of drowning their believers and then resuscitating them by blowing air into their lungs. I suspect that this practice is in memory of an ancient ritual.

 

[Lady Dacey]

2 hours ago, Lollygag said:

Primary – Stark (wierwood trees, underground, crypts, stone, it's been pointed out the forum by I wish I could recall that whenever a Stark tries to hide behind stone be it literal or a name (Alayne Stone, Stoneheart), they always find safety)

@Lollygag thank you so very much for that! That ties very well with some stuff I just posted about Arya protecting both Nymeria and Needle using stones. I had thought the most important aspect of it was the rocks separating her from her loved ones, but safety makes as much sense or more. Well, I don't see why it can't be both. Since the two threads have been mingled already by @It_spelt_Magalhaes I felt it was ok to bring this up here. Sorry @Aldarion I don't mean to highjack. 

[Aldarion]

Tyrells are associated with roses; golden rose on green background. Green is associated with fertility and earth. Element of earth is associated stability, groundedness, fertility, materiality, potential, and stillness. This is shown in Tyrell tendency to advance their interests by peaceful means: specifically through marriage alliances (Renly, Joffrey, Tommen). Earth is an element of death and rebirth: and two of Margaery's husbands have died already.

Martell sigil is red sun pierced by a spear, on a yellow background. All these elements point to fire; fire is associated with sun, as well as colours red and yellow. This also leads to associations to noon and summer. Fire itself is associated with strength, activity, blood and life-force. This strength and passion are possibly even more associated with Martells than they are with Targaryens. Fire is also purifying and protective, thus paralleling Martell protectiveness of each other, but also their tendency to seek revenge in order to "purify" wrongs done. Fire is seen as active, and Martells are all about action; its geographical direction is south, like Dorne is.