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silverwolf22

how I believe brienne being a descendant of duncan the tall came to be

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https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/05/game-of-thrones-brienne-ser-duncan-the-tall-george-rr-martin

https://goodqueenaly.tumblr.com/post/143163889498/how-would-maekar-and-egg-have-managed-one-of-his#notes

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Well, I presume Dunk was hanging around King’s Landing for at least some time during the reign of Maekar. He wasn’t a Kingsguard yet, probably - the first mention we have of him as a knight of the Kingsguard is in 236 AC, during the Fourth Blackfyre Rebellion - but he was still Egg’s sworn shield. After he became king, I presume Maekar called his fourthborn son to court, to learn the business of government (perhaps realizing at this point that Daeron and Aerion were lost causes). Egg himself was married at this point, to Betha Blackwood, so there would be no more knight-and-squire adventures for the two, but Dunk was probably around at least for Egg naming his first son after his old friend (sometime between 220 and 224 AC). 

Now, it seems to me that Egg married Betha quietly, without first getting permission from Maekar; a Blackwood isn’t so low a match for a relatuvely low-ranking prince, but the marriage is emphasized for its unorthodox basis in love and the fact that it was only allowed because Aegon was not close to inheriting. If Princess Daella had been betrothed to Egg - and this might have been the case - she would have suddenly found herself short a fiance, with no apparent other prospects (save perhaps Aerion, if he wasn’t already married to Princess Daenora). In her early 20s - past the usual age for highborn maidens to be wed in Westeros - Daella might have been bored and frustrated at her lack of prospects. Dunk is never spoken of as handsome, but he is very tall (something I can personally attest to being very attractive) and has a way of charming ladies. Point being, it wouldn’t be the craziest thing to me to imagine the two of them having a clandestine affair while the two were living in the Red Keep - Dunk as Aegon’s sworn shield, Daella as a royal princess.

When King Maekar would have found out about it, however - especially if Daella revealed she was pregnant - he would certainly have been quite upset. A deflowered highborn girl loses a substantial amount of worth on the marriage market, and having it be revealed that his daughter had had an affair with a hedge knight would have been a scandal that grimly dutiful Maekar simply could not tolerate. He had already seen his sons becoming laughingstocks in the Targaryen dynasty; he would not suffer his daughter being mocked as no better than a whore. So I think he would have tried to hush up the affair by wedding her to the soonest available ranking lord - as it happened, the Lord of Tarth. Cersei comments on a seemingly similar (although factually different) situation:

“Also,” Lord Qyburn said, “the daughter of the Knight of Spottswood was betrothed quite unexpectedly to Lord Estermont, our friends in Dorne inform us. She was sent to Greenstone that very night, and it is said she and Estermont have already wed.”

“A bastard in the belly would explain that.” Cersei toyed with a lock of her hair.

The Tarths are not on face a bad match: from an ancient Stormlands family, proud and storied, with blood ties to the Durrandon kings and Baratheon lords, a Lord of Tarth is a perfectly acceptable match for a Targaryen princess. If two Targaryens could wed into the Baratheon vassal family of the Penroses, a princess could wed a Tarth without great comment. 

The Queen Regent (NFriel)

@Lord Varys

@James Steller

https://goodqueenaly.tumblr.com/post/151381380498/i-may-be-following-the-theory-incorrectly-but-i

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Dunk had a relationship (illicit?) with one of Egg’s sisters (I would suspect Daella, who was older than Aegon and thus closer to Dunk’s age; also Dunk/Daella is the sort of relationship alliteration GRRM enjoys https://nobodysuspectsthebutterfly.tumblr.com/post/97295140763/ive-had-a-look-through-your-tags-etc-and-didnt  ), and after she became pregnant, she was quickly married to the lord of Tarth to hush it up. (He may have known he was infertile, or was elderly and without heirs, and that plus the honor of marrying a Targaryen princess would be enough to seal the deal.)
I wonder … Could Dunk have gone with Princess Daella to serve as a (temporary) sworn shield upon her marriage to Lord Tarth? Perhaps Maekar, furious that his son would break his betrothal with his sister (what he hinted at in TSS) and secretly wed Betha Blackwood, decided to break up Dunk and Egg, keeping his son at court and sending Dunk away to watch over Daella (a little like Viserys I splitting up Harwin Strong and his daughter to end the rumors of the princes’ bastardy). Sometime before or after the wedding, Dunk knocks up Daella, with Lord Tarth none the wiser. That would explain why the shield is in the armory - a memory of the famed knight who served Lady Tarth - and still keep the Tarths unaware of the secret of Selwyn’s predecessor. Of course, how GRRM would write a Dunk and Egg tale with no Egg is a wholly different question, and I don’t know if it makes sense for Maekar to send a non-KG (presuming Dunk was not at this point, which is probably a fair guess) to watch his daughter.

 

or of course the likelihood that maekar didnt know it was duncan who knocked daella up and married daella  to the lord tarth to cover up her pregnancy with  duncan being sent with her  so his shield was left at the tarth ( duncan being at tarth is the only way duncans shield being at the armory makes sense  unless daella took it with her ) ( and it was stated that brienne does have some targ blood

Edited by silverwolf22

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22 minutes ago, silverwolf22 said:

or of course the likelihood that maekar didnt know it was duncan who knocked daella up and married daella  to the lord tarth to cover up her pregnancy with  duncan being sent with her  so his shield was left at the tarth ( duncan being at tarth is the only way duncans shield being at the armory makes sense  unless daella took it with her ) ( and it was stated that brienne does have some targ blood

Maekar's will in all that is pretty much secondary. Sure, it may have caused problems if the man had had issues with the people Egg or Daella wanted to marry - but Egg and Betha married in 220 AC, while King Aerys I still sat the Iron Throne. So the final decision in the matter - at least if we are talking about officially approved marriages (and Egg's marriage at least was one such) - would have been with the king, not Prince Maekar.

But the question whether Maekar would be opposed to such a marriage might not be all that clear, either. Chances are pretty high that Dunk enters his service, and if he saves Maekar's ass or does some other heroic deeds during the Third Blackfyre Rebellion that could easily buy him the hand of a Targaryen princess.

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You're all barking up the wrong tree.  Brienne is probably not Dunk's descendant, and GRRM certainly never confirmed that she was Dunk's descendant (pandering clickbait journalism notwithstanding).

GRRM did create a loose association between Dunk and Brienne when he had Brienne find Dunk's shield in her father's armory.  But to assume this somehow proves they are related is magical thinking, not logical thinking.

A better theory, IMHO, is that Bonifer Hasty, the very-tall, very honorable, ex-tournament knight, who is mysteriously effected by some tragedy dating back to around the time of Summerhall, is Dunk's descendant.  As would be any descendants of Bonifer (Rhaegar and any descendants of Rhaegar).

 

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4 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

You're all barking up the wrong tree.  Brienne is probably not Dunk's descendant, and GRRM certainly never confirmed that she was Dunk's descendant (pandering clickbait journalism notwithstanding).

I'm not sure what you mean here?

4 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

GRRM did create a loose association between Dunk and Brienne when he had Brienne find Dunk's shield in her father's armory.  But to assume this somehow proves they are related is magical thinking, not logical thinking.

You say it's a "loose association", I say it's a clue, and a pretty significant one. Brienne not only finds Dunk's shield in her father's armory, it also served as her inspiration when has her own shield repainted. 

IRT the bold, I don't think I've ever seen anyone saying that Brienne finding the shield alone proves anything, so as far as I can tell you're attacking a straw man here. 

 

4 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

A better theory, IMHO, is that Bonifer Hasty, the very-tall, very honorable, ex-tournament knight, who is mysteriously effected by some tragedy dating back to around the time of Summerhall, is Dunk's descendant.

How is that a better theory? I can understand if you say, "it's a theory I like/prefer", but "better" is slightly ludicrous. Hasty is tall, yes. And that's basically it. :dunno:

The tragedy in his past is his failed romance w/ Rhaella. 

On the other hand, we have Brienne who...

- finds Dunk's shield in her father's castle

- uses said shield as inspiration when she has her own shield repainted

- is truly the embodiment of true chivalry w/o being an actual knight 

- I get it that in your opinion Martin hasn't confirmed anything, but I disagree; at this point I do take his reply as confirmation. 

4 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

As would be any descendants of Bonifer (Rhaegar and any descendants of Rhaegar).

As in Rhaegar was Hasty's son w/ Rhaella? If so, again, I disagree. And I don't recall anything pointing to it at all. Care to share anything in particular that has convinced you? 

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4 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

You're all barking up the wrong tree.  Brienne is probably not Dunk's descendant, and GRRM certainly never confirmed that she was Dunk's descendant (pandering clickbait journalism notwithstanding).

Just so I am clear with your statement, you are claiming GRRM is a clickbait shytetalker? 

4 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

GRRM did create a loose association between Dunk and Brienne when he had Brienne find Dunk's shield in her father's armory.  But to assume this somehow proves they are related is magical thinking, not logical thinking.

It has far more to do with just the shield. 

4 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

A better theory, IMHO, is that Bonifer Hasty, the very-tall, very honorable, ex-tournament knight, who is mysteriously effected by some tragedy dating back to around the time of Summerhall, is Dunk's descendant.  As would be any descendants of Bonifer (Rhaegar and any descendants of Rhaegar).

 

That’s your theory, not necessarily a better one. Probs should differentiate. 

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17 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Just so I am clear with your statement, you are claiming GRRM is a clickbait shytetalker? 

No.   I'm saying the many media reports that GRRM had confirmed anything, is clickbait shytetalking.  

News is slow.  So clickbait shytetalkers will try to create news, even when there is none to see.

GRRM did not confirm anything.  The reports are false.

Edited by Platypus Rex

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1 minute ago, Platypus Rex said:

No.   I'm saying the many media reports that GRRM had confirmed anything, is clickbait shytetalking.  

News is slow.  So clickbait shytetalkers will try to create news, even when there is none to see.

GRRM did not confirm anything.  The reports are false.

They aren’t. GRRM said this. The article was spreading GRRM words, but GRRM said Brienne is a descendant if Dunk. 

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2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I'm not sure what you mean here?

You say it's a "loose association", I say it's a clue, and a pretty significant one.

I call it magical thinking.  Call it a clue, if you like, but I've yet to see a good nonmagical explanation for the logic behind it. 

What do you suppose it signifies? 

Perhaps, one day, the honorable Dunk was busy cuckolding the Lord of Tarth, but had to flee when the Lord of Tarth came home early, leaving his shield behind.  So the Lord of Tarth says, "Honey, what's that shield doing here?"  "I don't know, darling," she says, "I thought you put it there for some reason."  "Well, I didn't," he replies.  "I'm going to put it in the armory."  And ever since then, all the Lords of Tarth have been descended from Duncan the Tall.

Maybe.  Maybe.  But I can think of far more likely ways for Dunk's shield to get in the Lord of Tarth's armory.

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Brienne not only finds Dunk's shield in her father's armory, it also served as her inspiration when has her own shield repainted. 

More magical thinking.  I guess your theory is that Brienne's psychic connection with the spirit of her great great great great grandfather caused her like the shield, and copy it when she needed to hide her identity by using a shield that was NOT her own family coat of arms.

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IRT the bold, I don't think I've ever seen anyone saying that Brienne finding the shield alone proves anything, so as far as I can tell you're attacking a straw man here. 

As far as I know, Brienne's finding the shield in the family armory is the closest thing to a direct logical connection anyone has been able to cite.  And it is not very logical when you think about it.  Everything else, is even more magical.  

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How is that a better theory? I can understand if you say, "it's a theory I like/prefer", but "better" is slightly ludicrous. Hasty is tall, yes. And that's basically it. :dunno:

He's tall.  He's a tournament knight like his father/grandfather.  He's a landed knight, which is pretty much the highest rank that Dunk and Egg could reasonably bestow on a man of humble birth.  He is honorable, like his father/grandfather.  He has some connection with the court of Egg, at the time Dunk was Lord Commander.  There is some mystery around him.  And he is old enough that we can construct a theory tracing trace the descendants of Duncan the Tall without too many gaps and speculations.  He is old enough to have actually known Duncan the tall and perhaps learned the skills and ideals of knighthood from him (magical thinking not required).

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The tragedy in his past is his failed romance w/ Rhaella. 

Sure.  And that provides the connection to the present.   Because from that romance came Rhaegar, and any descendants of Rhaegar, whoever you might think they are.  

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On the other hand, we have Brienne who...

- finds Dunk's shield in her father's castle

Again, no-one has explained the logic of this.

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- uses said shield as inspiration when she has her own shield repainted

Magical inspiration?  Like I said, magical thinking.

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- is truly the embodiment of true chivalry w/o being an actual knight 

Is this more magical thinking?  Because I think that Dunk would prefer that his children or grandchildren would actually be knights.  Or do you think that Dunk has a "fake knight" gene that he passes on to his descendants, along with his height.

As for being the embodiment of true chivalry, Ser Bonfer seems to have a pretty good record as well.  He is evidently the leader of the only military force in Westeros that does not rape.  And he is old enough to have actually known Duncan the Tall, and been trained with Duncan's ideals.  So in his case, this connection is not necessarily "magical".

Of course, Brienne is tall.  But Bonifer is tall as well.  And Bonifer, unlike Brienne, is not 4 generations removed from Dunk, but maybe only 1 or 2 generations removed.  So this clue has a greater (logical) chance of actually being meaningful.

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- I get it that in your opinion Martin hasn't confirmed anything, but I disagree; at this point I do take his reply as confirmation. 

GRRM said " … eventually all will be revealed in time …" during a busy book signing, when nobody was supposed to be asking him any questions at all.  To take that as confirmation, is confirmation bias on steroids.

Because the question (that should not have been asked at all) was a loaded question, which assumed (without asking) that Brienne was Dunk's descendant, you take that as confirmation.  Had the rude question assumed that Bonifer was Dunk's descendant, you would view the situation more logically.  That's how confirmation bias works.  Anything and everything is absolute proof of what you already believe.

Edited by Platypus Rex

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40 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

They aren’t. GRRM said this. The article was spreading GRRM words, but GRRM said Brienne is a descendant if Dunk. 

Nope.  GRRM never said "Brienne is a descendant of Dunk".  The words GRRM actually said were "... eventually all will be revealed in time …"  That, at least, was what was originally reported by those who claimed to be there.

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19 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

Nope.  GRRM never said "Brienne is a descendant of Dunk".  The words GRRM actually said were "... eventually all will be revealed in time …"  That, at least, was what was originally reported by those who claimed to be there.

Nope. GRRM confirmed this at Balticon. 

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1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Nope. GRRM confirmed this at Balticon. 

What GRRM said at Balticon was "eventually all will be revealed in time" (that is, those are the words he is alleged to have said by the person or persons actually present -- there is no recording).  And he did not say it to a crowd either (Vanity Fair made that part up).  He was responding to a question put to him by a fan at a book signing.  Vanity Fair's source, which they actually link to, was a reddit post,   The reddit post is a second hand repetition of someone's interpretation of what actually happened.  This is standard clickbait journalism.  Someone said it on the internet so it must be true.  And of course, Vanity Fair has to spice it up a bit to make it sound even better.  It becomes a game of telephone.

The question asked by the fan was a loaded one (something like "Will we find out how Brienne is descended from Dunk).  So the fan chose to interpret the word "eventually" (which he claims GRRM used) as "Yes, eventually you will find out how Brienne is descended from Dunk", which he further chose to interpret as "Yes, Brienne is indeed Dunk's descendant". 

Edited by Platypus Rex

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2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

That’s your theory, not necessarily a better one. Probs should differentiate. 

"IMHO" not good enough for you, eh?

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1 hour ago, Platypus Rex said:

I call it magical thinking.  Call it a clue, if you like, but I've yet to see a good nonmagical explanation for the logic behind it. 

I'm once more at a loss, I don't understand what you mean by "magical thinking". Martin had x castles where he could have put Dunk's shield, but he put it in Brienne's father's armory. Alternatively, he might not have ever brought up this shield again outside of the D&E novellas, and, again, he chose to put it in Brienne's home. That's either a clue or a red herring, and "magical thinking" - whatever that is - has fuck all to do w/ it. IMO.

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What do you suppose it signifies? 

Perhaps, one day, the honorable Dunk was busy cuckolding the Lord of Tarth, but had to flee when the Lord of Tarth came home early, leaving his shield behind.  So the Lord of Tarth says, "Honey, what's that shield doing here?"  "I don't know, darling," she says, "I thought you put it there for some reason."  "Well, I didn't," he replies.  "I'm going to put it in the armory."  And ever since then, all the Lords of Tarth have been descended from Duncan the Tall.

Huh? I suppose that's one way it could have happened, but seems a bit silly for my taste. But it certainly isn't the only possibility. 

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Maybe.  Maybe.  But I can think of far more likely ways for Dunk's shield to get in the Lord of Tarth's armory.

I'll bite. Give me a "far more likely" way that isn't "because I said so" or a variation on that.

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More magical thinking.  I guess your theory is that Brienne's psychic connection with the spirit of her great great great great grandfather caused her like the shield, and copy it when she needed to hide her identity by using a shield that was NOT her own family coat of arms.

Erhm... what psychic connection are you talking about? I'm pretty certain I didn't say anything about psychic connections or spirits

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As far as I know, Brienne's finding the shield in the family armory is the closest thing to a direct logical connection anyone has been able to cite. 

Direct logical connection, but also magical thinking? Confusing. And no, it isn't the only connection/clue/hint.

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And it is not very logical when you think about it.  Everything else, is even more magical.  

See above re magical thinking.

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He's tall.  He's a tournament knight like his father/grandfather.  He's a landed knight, which is pretty much the highest rank that Dunk and Egg could reasonably bestow on a man of humble birth.  He is honorable, like his father/grandfather.  He has some connection with the court of Egg, at the time Dunk was Lord Commander.  There is some mystery around him.  And he is old enough that we can construct a theory tracing trace the descendants of Duncan the Tall without too many gaps and speculations.

I would think there are others who fit this "criteria" as well. It doesn't turn them into descendants of Dunk. This is as wildly speculative and full of holes as it can get. 

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Sure.  And that provides the connection to the present.   Because from that romance came Rhaegar, and any descendants of Rhaegar, whoever you might think they are.  

I am sure Rhaegar is not Hasty's son. There's nothing even suggesting it as a vague possibility. It's not even a red herring b/c there's norhing there. 

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Again, no-one has explained the logic of this.

Magical inspiration?  Like I said, magical thinking.

Yup, you keep saying that, as if it's an actual argument. It isn't.

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Is this more magical thinking? 

:lol:

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Because I think that Dunk would prefer that his children or grandchildren would actually be knights.  Or do you think that Dunk has a "fake knight" gene that he passes on to his descendants, along with his height.

I. Can't. Even.

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As for being the embodiment of true chivalry, Ser Bonfer seems to have a pretty good record as well.  He is evidently the leader of the only military force in Westeros that does not rape.  And he is old enough to have actually known Duncan the Tall, and been trained with Duncan's ideals.  So in his case, this connection is not necessarily "magical".

Even religious zealots can have positive traits. 

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Of course, Brienne is tall.  But Bonifer is tall as well.  And Bonifer, unlike Brienne, is not 4 generations removed from Dunk, but maybe only 1 or 2 generations removed.  So this clue has a greater (logical) chance of actually being meaningful.

Except it's not a clue.

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GRRM said " … eventually all will be revealed in time …" during a busy book signing, when nobody was supposed to be asking him any questions at all.  To take that as confirmation, is confirmation bias on steroids.

It's not uncommon for Martin to take a question from fans while he signs their books. I've been to a few of his book signings and saw it firsthand.

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Because the question (that should not have been asked at all) was a loaded question, which assumed (without asking) that Brienne was Dunk's descendant, you take that as confirmation.  Had the rude question assumed that Bonifer was Dunk's descendant, you would view the situation more logically.  That's how confirmation bias works.  Anything and everything is absolute proof of what you already believe.

No. If I heard/read that someone asked Martin whether Hasty is Dunk's descendant I would be left scratching my head. 

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1 hour ago, Platypus Rex said:

"IMHO" not good enough for you, eh?

You’ve lost me with the snark, but basically I can’t see anything better than the way GRRM has already written this. Three books (and probably more) about Duncan (one story already has a proto Brienne and Jaime interaction) and barely a POV’s worth about Bonifer combined... no comparison. 

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I read an interview with GRRM (unfortunately do not note down citations when browsing the web) where someone tried to press him on the Dunk descendent issue (I mean he wanted to narrow down who it was) and GRRM said "I put a pretty big clue in" which I would say is the shield. 

Not to mention her size, phyical appearance, fighting skill, tongue-tiedness, stubborness, and being quite shrewd.

Having re-read the Dunk and Egg stories recently, I noticed how much everything about Dunk is like Brienne, especially in the first story which is my favourite. He is an outsider, not skilled in speech, mourning Ser Arlen, but stubborn, and he has to find himself a right to fight in the tourney, a shield, a sword, and armour, then finds himself in trouble through being gallant towards the puppeteer, and has to take part in the trial of seven... When Brienne spends the night with hedge knights who challenge her right to carry the second-hand shield, then her rides around looking for someone to paint her shield, looks for lodgings, etc, it is very much like those parts of the Dunk story.

His POV is like Brienne's POV in mood, his interactions with others, the problems he faces, and how he gets round them.

 

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4 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I'm once more at a loss, I don't understand what you mean by "magical thinking".

Mystical thinking.  Symbolic thinking.   The loose, associative, thinking commonly use by practitioners of occultism. Thinking that follows no rational path, but assumes that any loose connection or association must have the significance you choose to imagine it has.

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Martin had x castles where he could have put Dunk's shield, but he put it in Brienne's father's armory.

It is an armory.  It contains lots of shields.  Probably with lots of designs.  Do you think all those designs belong to the many lovers of Lady Tarth?  There is no logical connection between a nobleman having a shield in his armory, and that nobleman being a descendant of the person who owned the shield.

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Alternatively, he might not have ever brought up this shield again outside of the D&E novellas, and, again, he chose to put it in Brienne's home.

It has to be somewhere.  An armory is as good a place as any, and better than most.  There is still no logical connection between Dunk's shield being in the Lord of Tarth's armory, and Dunk being Brienne's ancestor.  Certainly, Brienne does not think this shield is the coat of arms of some long lost ancestor.  And the reason she does not think it is because there would be no logic whatsoever in such a conclusion.

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That's either a clue or a red herring, and "magical thinking" - whatever that is - has fuck all to do w/ it. IMO.

Calling it a "red herring" would imply that GRRM is trying to mislead us into thinking Brienne is Duncan's ancestor.  And that would imply that there is any logic in the conclusion.  But if it is a red herring, it is certainly not an unfair one.  Those who are misled by this false clue, will have only themselves to blame.  After all, if they had been logical about it, they would never have been misled

It may have significance that you have not considered.  Perhaps GRRM is setting Brienne up to be confused with Sandor.  Perhaps Sandor, after leaving the Quiet Isle, will hook up with Edric Dayne, Lord of Starfall, and start wearing the Dayne Coat of Arms on his shield, which may take some damage and be only partly visible.  Well, if the reader sees a tall knight, with half a face, and a battered shield with a shooting star still visible, in the company of a 12-year old boy, they might think this is Brienne and not Sandor.  Or he could be setting up any one of a thousand things that we have not considered and cannot guess.  

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Huh? I suppose that's one way it could have happened, but seems a bit silly for my taste. But it certainly isn't the only possibility. 

Of course it's silly.  But I've never seen anything better.

You could tell any number of alternative stories.  They can be as long and as involved as you like.   They can incorporate, as separate elements, Brienne being somehow Dunk's descendant, and Dunk's shield ending up in Lord Tarth's armory.  What would be difficult, I would think, would be telling a story where there was a logical connection between the two.  That's because there IS no logical connection between the two. 

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I'll bite. Give me a "far more likely" way that isn't "because I said so" or a variation on that.

Well, for instance, when a soldier gets defeated, killed or captured in war, very often his armor and weapon get seized as spoils of war and end up in the armory of the opposing army.  Or perhaps a descendant of Dunk, or a friend of Dunk, died while in the service of the Lord of Tarth.

That's only two possibilities.  There might be a thousand others, virtually none of which would involve Dunk's offspring becoming the heirs of Tarth.

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Erhm... what psychic connection are you talking about? I'm pretty certain I didn't say anything about psychic connections or spirits

You said that Brienne liking Dunk's shield, remembering it, and copying it, somehow proves she is Dunk's descendant.  You mentioned this as a separate item of evidence, distinct from her finding it in her dad's armory.  So:  HOW? HOW? HOW? HOW? HOW?  You explain the connection, if it is not a psychic connection to her ancestor?  Does Dunk have an "I like elm trees and shooting stars" gene, that he passed along to Brienne across multiple generations?

Explain the logical connection.

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No. If I heard/read that someone asked Martin whether Hasty is Dunk's descendant I would be left scratching my head. 

Exactly.  You already believe that Brienne is Dunk's descendant.  So you take GRRM's answer as confirmation of what you already believe.  You do not believe that Bonifer is Dunk's descendant.   So if an analogous question had been asked about Bonifer, and GRRM had given the exact same answer, you would not have taken the answer as confirming anything.  GRRM's answer was meaningless.  This is only about what you already believe.  There's a phrase for it.  It's called "confirmation bias".

Edited by Platypus Rex

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5 hours ago, Castellan said:

I read an interview with GRRM (unfortunately do not note down citations when browsing the web) where someone tried to press him on the Dunk descendent issue (I mean he wanted to narrow down who it was) and GRRM said "I put a pretty big clue in" which I would say is the shield. 

Perhaps the clue he had in mind, from the same volume, was the introduction of a very-tall, very honorable, ex-tournament knight, old enough to have known Ser Duncan, who is haunted by some mysterious tragedy.

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Hasty and Rhaella likely never had an affair in the first place. They were enamored with each other, but Hasty is a very pious man, he is not likely to defile a royal princess by having sex with her outside of marriage. He would have liked to marry her, but he could not. And Rhaella was apparently a very dutiful woman who looked down on and punished the sluts who shared the beds of her brother-husband. That also makes it very unlikely she would have been willing to have an affair with Hasty.

In addition, there is absolutely no evidence that they ever had an affair. If feelings were enough to indicate an affair, we could just as well delude ourselves into insisting that Ashara and Barristan must have had some kind of affair.

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Why? WHY? does everyone think, that just because that shield was in armory of Tarths, it means, that the one, who is Dunk's descendant, is Selwyn?

Selwyn Tarth is not tall. He has average look and height. Thus, the one, who is Dunk's descendant, is Brienne's mother, not her Tarth father. And general public in Westeros is unaware of who was Brienne's mother. Otherwise people wouldn't have wondered, why Brienne looks and behaves like that.

And there is a woman in ASOIAF, whose age and looks is just right to be Brienne's mother - Pretty Meris of Windblown.

Brienne the Beauty of Tarth, daughter of Pretty Meris.

Most likely, Meris is Duncan's granddaughter. Meris' mother is daughter of Dunk and Old Nan, one of those that got married, and moved away from Winterfell. The brown-haired girl and a tall knight in Bran's vision, is possibly Duncan and Nan. Hodor, who is Nan's great-grandson, is Brienne's second cousin.

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Why does Dunc need to deflower one of the Targaryen princesses? He could have just married the youngest daughter of Tarth or some cousin, had children with her, then due to circumstances at some point, those children or their children become the rules of Tarth. 

It would be like a Harry the Heir type of situation. His grandmother was Jon Arryn's sister and he would have been far out the line of succession if Jon Arryn had had more than the one sickly son or if his nephew or cousin had lived.

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