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Jova Snow

Minor houses' sigils and their significance?

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Starks have direwolf. Targaryens have three headed dragon. Greyjoys have the kraken. But are there any minor house whose sigils you think may be important? Mine are - 

House Langward - of Crownlands. House Langward sigil has a crown made of stars. I think this sigil means they are an Andal house and the crown is the crown of Hugor of the Hill. 

House Sunderly - of Iron Islands. A drowning man. Since Ironborn worship Drowned God and has a ritual of drowning people, their sigil reflect their faith better than others. 

House Whitehill - of North. Seven stars above a snow covered hill. Is there a tie to Faith of the Seven? Or just a similarity? 

House Hutcheson - of Reach. A red hand pointing to a red sun. Red hand is tied to Rhllor for me and the red sun could be a comet. 

House Steadmon - of Stormlands. A heart pierced by a dagger. I wrote three posts about Empire of Dawn and mentioned House Steadmon before. Bran and catspaw, Others and obsidian daggers, even on mummer's show Jonathan stabbed Daen with a dagger. Maybe AA had a dagger as well. 

House Piper - of Riverlands. A maiden dancing on blue. Is there a possibility this maiden is Elenei? Or the Maiden of Faith? 

 

 

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House Dayne - I think that the sword on their sigil is AA's Lightbringer, and the comet is the Bleeding Star. In my opinion, first Lord Dayne, the one that build Starfall, was Azor Ahai. Originally he was from Asshai, something like a Red Priest of R'hllor. He saw that falling star in a fire-vision, and based on that vision, went to Dorne, where he picked up that "meteorite" ore, and from it forged Lightbringer, in an temple at Asshai. Then, after the war was over, he took his people, and went from Asshai to the cite of that fallen star, where eventually he build Starfall. On the way there from Asshai, some of his people settled down on Valyria, because, while they were passing thru that area, 40 dragon eggs, that they took with them from Asshai, has hatched, and thus those people became 40 dragonlord families. Azor Ahai kept going to Westeros, and one of those families, that went with him, were Hightowers.

Could be that motto of Hightowers (We Light the Way), means that they were AA's scouts, going before the main group, or that they were carrying Lightbringer to Westeros. Thus, purple eyes of some Daynes, and silver and golden hair and purple eyes of some Hightowers, is a clue that they have the same ancestor, as Valyrians - Azor Ahai.

House Stokeworth - a lamb with golden chalice. Similar to Agnus Dei, Lamb of God. Except that that lamb is holding a vexillum (flag) in his paw, and a chalice is standing near his paw. I think that Littlefinger could be a secret dragonseed, and that his ancestor was the Bastard of Harrenhal, who was secret son of Jeyne Lothston (daughter of Falena Stokeworth) and Jeyne's father, Aegon IV. So, Littlefinger is a parallel to Biblical False Prophet, the Beast out of the Earth. That Beast had dragon's voice, and lamb's horns. Dragon's voice - dragonseed, lamb's horns - Stokeworth. And a lamb with chalice on the sigil of House Stokeworth, at the same time different and similar to the Lamb of God, could be a hint, that the person from this House (Littlefinger) is a Big Evil of ASOIAF.

House Swann - white and black swans on their sigil. Or maybe the meaning of their sigil is a white swan and her black shadow, which could be a clue, that female-Swanns are shadowbinders. In my opinion, Johanna Swann, the Black Swan of Lys, was a shadowbinder. She was working as a courtesan at the Perfumed Garden, owned by Rogare family, got married with Lysandro, and gave birth to Larra Rogare. Larra also was a shadowbinder, same as her mother, and Larra eventually became Serenei of Lys. Larra's/Serenei's daughter, Shiera Seastar, is also a shadowbinder - Quaithe from Asshai. And they all are Swanns by blood, and based on their sigil - all Swanns have a dual treacherous nature, or dark secrets. Blackfyres, Varys and fAegon are also partially Swanns. If my theory is correct (that Johanna Swann was Larra Rogare's mother), then Daemon Blackfyre was 1/8 Swann. Possibly, his wife, Rohanne of Tyrosh, also was a descendant of Johanna Swann (her ancestor, child of Johanna Swann and a man from Tyrosh, was born prior Johanna became Lysandro's wife). Varys' father was either Maelys the Monstrous, or Daemon Unnumbered Blackfyre. fAegon possibly is a child of septa Lemore, who could be Jeyne Swann, and Barristan Selmy, who could be grandson of Aenys Blackfyre. And Balon Swann is possibly Varys' spy.

Spider and web of House Webber - a hint, that Rohanne Webber (the Ghost of High Heart) is Varys' maternal grandmother (mother of Jenny of Oldstones, that possibly was kidnapped by Blackfyres, during burning of Summerhall).

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On 7/1/2019 at 8:26 AM, Megorova said:

House Dayne - I think that the sword on their sigil is AA's Lightbringer, and the comet is the Bleeding Star. In my opinion, first Lord Dayne, the one that build Starfall, was Azor Ahai. Originally he was from Asshai, something like a Red Priest of R'hllor. He saw that falling star in a fire-vision, and based on that vision, went to Dorne, where he picked up that "meteorite" ore, and from it forged Lightbringer, in an temple at Asshai. Then, after the war was over, he took his people, and went from Asshai to the cite of that fallen star, where eventually he build Starfall. On the way there from Asshai, some of his people settled down on Valyria, because, while they were passing thru that area, 40 dragon eggs, that they took with them from Asshai, has hatched, and thus those people became 40 dragonlord families. Azor Ahai kept going to Westeros, and one of those families, that went with him, were Hightowers.

House Dayne was founded 10,000 years before Aegon's Conquest. The Long Night didn't happen until 2,000 years later. The first Lord Dayne would have to have lived a very long time for that to be true. Also, he wouldn't have been a Lord; the ancient Daynes were Kings of the Torrentine.

On 7/1/2019 at 8:26 AM, Megorova said:

Spider and web of House Webber - a hint, that Rohanne Webber (the Ghost of High Heart) is Varys' maternal grandmother (mother of Jenny of Oldstones, that possibly was kidnapped by Blackfyres, during burning of Summerhall).

Rohanne Webber, etc, etc, Lannister disappeared in 230, less than a year after her son Jason was born. Duncan and Jenny of Oldstones got married in 239, and we can presume that the bride was more than 9 years old, and so must have been born prior to Rohanne's disappearance--thus Jenny of Oldstones cannot be Rohanne's daughter. Songs have her dancing with ghosts in the ruins after her husband's death, so likely someone had seen her there at least once after Summerhall burned. 

Rohanne would also be 114 or 115 years old if she were the Ghost of High Heart. Not impossible, but how would she have hidden in the Riverlands (right next door to the Westerlands) all those decades? Surely someone would have recognized Lady Lannister.

I see the spider/web connection you're making, but it works better if you leave Jenny out. It would also help if we knew how old Varys is. Since he's from Lys, the best Targaryen connection supported by the text is that he could be descended from a bastard of Prince Aerion "Brightflame."

On 6/30/2019 at 2:34 PM, Jova Snow said:

Starks have direwolf. Targaryens have three headed dragon. Greyjoys have the kraken. But are there any minor house whose sigils you think may be important? Mine are - 

I have some lists somewhere. I'll go through them and see if anything jumps out at me. I remember one was about houses that use purple in their arms. Don't recall if I found any connection between them and anything important.

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Bear in mind that figures like "10,000 years ago" are really a way of saying "thousands of years ago, the precise number being unclear, but really, a long, long time!"

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16 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

House Dayne was founded 10,000 years before Aegon's Conquest. The Long Night didn't happen until 2,000 years later. The first Lord Dayne would have to have lived a very long time for that to be true. Also, he wouldn't have been a Lord; the ancient Daynes were Kings of the Torrentine.

There is some sort of inconcistency in the known history, between what and when actually happened, and what maesters recorded many many years later. There are round towers in Westeros, that predate arrival of Andals (and round towers are supposedly invention of Andals). There were knights in Westeros thousands years before arrival of Andals, such as Symeon Star-Eyes. According to some sources, Lann the Clever was also an Andal, even though he came to Westeros thousands years before the coming of the Andals. Etc.

So it isn't known for sure, when exactly was founded House Dayne, when happened Long Night (either it happened 8 or 6 or 4 or 2 thousands years ago). Based on what Sam calculated, it seems that the real history of Westeros is several thousands years shorter. The Night's Watch was created after Bran the Builder and the Children of the Forest build The Wall. And according to their records, based on the actual list of their Lords Commanders, the Long Night happened just a few thousands years ago, not 6 and not 8. The rest of the recorded by maesters history could also be incorrect.

Also, it possible, that Jenny of Oldstones was no more than 9 years old, 10 years Duncan's junior. Thus their marriage wasn't consummated for several years after the wedding, and that was the reason why Duncan's family and maesters and Small Council demanded to annul that marriage. Also, Rohanne-Webber Lannister dissapeared in 230, and Jenny had brought her friend the Ghost to Targaryen court shortly prior Aerys' and Rhaella's wedding. They were forced to marry because of the Ghost's prophecy. Thus, it happened in 259 or 258, 28 or 29 years after Rohanne left her family. In those nearly three decades her looks changed. And before that she was hiding. And it's not like there was TV or Twitter in that world, so everyone knew important people. Based on three Dunk &Egg novels, it looks like no one knew, what Prince Aegon looked like, and thus during their travels, he wasn't recognized. Same with Rohanne. Even if people of Westerlands had seen her somewhere while she was "on the run", it's not like all people of Westerlands were present on Rohanne's wedding with Gerold Lannister, and thus could have recognized her years later, after she went missing.

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House Payne

Quote

 

"Our arms are purple and white chequy.  With gold coins.  In the checks." Podrick said.

"There's a tale behind those coins," said Tyrion.  "No doubt Pod will confide it to your toes one day."

 

ASOS - Sansa IV

I wonder what that tale is.

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House Cassels (semi canon) sigil is fascinating its ten white wolf heads on grey with a black border.

It could be just random. But a white wolf on grey is suspiciously like an inverted Stark sigil. Inverted sigils are sometimes used by bastards. Could the Cassels have originated from a Stark Bastard?

And the number 10. Does that have relevance? 10 generations? A 10th child? Is is it just artisitc.

And the black border? Just artistic or could it reflect a history of sending sons to the Night's watch or a member who was Lord-Commander that they're proud of or something?

Edited by GallowsKnight

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House Goodbrother uses warhorn as their coat of arms. They also have many branches. So I suspect that nasty George thought about word horny when he created that house.

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