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BigFatCoward

Cycling - La Vuelta - last chance saloon for the b list.

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1 minute ago, Maltaran said:

There's no easy answer - if you just ignore the stage and reset the times to what they were at the start, it's unfairly penalising all the riders at the front who had put time into Alaphilippe.

But it is the only thing that makes sense... If this happened yesterday and quintana won the tour because of it would it be okay? We can t take times like this. It doesn t make sense... 

And while it would be unfair to give Ala the yellow because he wasn t in shape it is the best decision that they could make. It is what fits better with the rules... 

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2 hours ago, Maltaran said:

Cricket can be, although there is at least an official method for making that decision, whereas this seems to have been a call made by the commissaires in the moment.

It's happened a few times in Formula 1 as well, perhaps most infamously when Ayrton Senna was denied his first win after the Monaco GP was ended early due to rain with Senna hunting down Alain Prost.

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Yeah, its not a fair decision but the problem they had is that there isn't a fair solution.

And a freak hail storm causing effectively an avalanche and mudslide from a glacier that blocked the road in multiple places is not something that could have been foreseen. They had less than half an hour from when it first happened to make a decision.

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Also I suspect that if they'd made the decision that disadvantaged all the race favorites in favour of the long shot Frenchman in yellow you'd be seeing a lot of people thinking it was bullshit for that reason.

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There's no truly fair decision to make so there really wasn't anything else they could do. Given it is a time-based race, you basically need to pick a common place to take the gaps from, and any point you pick is going to have winners and losers.

They obviously couldn't pick somewhere along the descent because not all the people who mattered had got there yet. So to have to go back to the most recent summit was probably as good as they could have done.

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I find myself wishing that Bernal hadn't attacked and had gone over the Iseran in the group with the other favourites - that would have left Alaphilippe in yellow by about 15 seconds which would have made today's stage very exciting. Bernal leading by 45 seconds with only the one mountain makes it pretty much a certainty that he's the winner.

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6 hours ago, Jeor said:

There's no truly fair decision to make so there really wasn't anything else they could do. Given it is a time-based race, you basically need to pick a common place to take the gaps from, and any point you pick is going to have winners and losers.

They obviously couldn't pick somewhere along the descent because not all the people who mattered had got there yet. So to have to go back to the most recent summit was probably as good as they could have done.

The summit is also a set point where they have all the necessary time keeping equipment, there is no point along or at the bottom of the descent that has it all.

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Just saw a live video of the sbs Australia broadcast guys from the finish where it is absolutely bucketing down including hail. This tour could be over before they even start to climb today.

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I saw one commentator on the Guardian yesterday - prior to the hail and mudslide - suggest that Pinot's team could work for Alaphilippe. I know it wouldn't do him much good now, but would that actually be allowed under TdF rules? 

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2 hours ago, dog-days said:

I saw one commentator on the Guardian yesterday - prior to the hail and mudslide - suggest that Pinot's team could work for Alaphilippe. I know it wouldn't do him much good now, but would that actually be allowed under TdF rules? 

Cycling teams have rivalries and agreements within races all the time. In the giro a few years ago when Astana attacked when Contador had a mechanical on the motirolo, loads of riders from other teams gave him pulls up the mountain. 

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2 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Cycling teams have rivalries and agreements within races all the time. In the giro a few years ago when Astana attacked when Contador had a mechanical on the motirolo, loads of riders from other teams gave him pulls up the mountain. 

Interesting. Still, much too late for Alaphilippe now. Will be looking forward to seeing what he does next year. Hopefully it will involve signing with a team that can support him. 

Though based on Bernal's performance this year, the Sky/Ineos run looks set to continue. Indefinitely. 

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35 minutes ago, dog-days said:

Interesting. Still, much too late for Alaphilippe now. Will be looking forward to seeing what he does next year. Hopefully it will involve signing with a team that can support him. 

Though based on Bernal's performance this year, the Sky/Ineos run looks set to continue. Indefinitely. 

Alaphilippe is quite successful with his current team. They just don't usually pursue the GC in a big multi-stage race. Most teams don't. Doesn't mean they aren't successful. Alaphilippe is No1 in the UCI world rankings. Not so bad.

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9 hours ago, dog-days said:

I saw one commentator on the Guardian yesterday - prior to the hail and mudslide - suggest that Pinot's team could work for Alaphilippe. I know it wouldn't do him much good now, but would that actually be allowed under TdF rules? 

It happens - a notorious occasion was back in the 80s on the Vuelta when all the Spaniards collaborated to prevent Robert Millar from winning. You also see it sometimes at the Olympics or the Worlds when they ride for national teams, sometimes riders from different countries will start helping their professional team mates.

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I'd still make Tom Dumoulin favourite next year ahead of Bernal if there was a 'normal' amount of TT. Especially on lotto jumbo. Unless the mountains are ridiculous again. 

 

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La Vuelta starts on Saturday, it is always a bit 'wild west' with people riding into form for the worlds, the second tier GC men giving it a blast, and people trying to rescue their season. 

Difficult to see anyone other than Roglic, Carapaz or Lopez winning, though it would be nice if Esteban Chaves put his bad few years behind him.  With the long TT Roglic has a lot of a theoretical headstart.  He seemed to go into the Giro overcooked, and suffered at the end, hopefully he will have put this right. 

If either Roglic or Lopez won it would be the first time for a while that we had 3 first time winners, if Carapaz wins it would mean South Americans were holding all 3 Grand Tours. 

Also, Dumoulin has gone to Lotto Jumbo, Dumoulin and Roglic would be a strong TTT by themselves. With Kruisjwijk to also keep happy they will have to juggle their leaders, but sky/ineos have shown it can be done.

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Yup, that is a major move by Dumoulin to join Jumbo Visma.

I still hope Carapaz doesnt also join Ineos cause they already snatched Sosa as well, he just won the Tour of Burgos and is such a big talent, as a fan you want him to oppose Bernal in the years to come, not in the same team.

For this Vuelta, sure, Roglic Carapaz and Lopez but I would look to Valverde and Quintana as well. Uran is teamleader as well, was announced today, he's not done a proper Vuelta before, but who knows right? And Martinez is a strong dark horse for me, from that team. Astana actually has Fuglsang starting too, could he have a lot left in the tank after a year like this, I doubt it. Majka could do top 5. We have yet to hera if Mas will start....

Edited by Calibandar

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