US Politics: RIP EHK FYVM GOP

[DMC]

7 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

that politics are the entertainment department of the MIC. 

Meh, that's pretty reductive.  And I don't consider Frank Zappa a great political theorist.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Just now, DMC said:

Meh, that's pretty reductive.  And I don't consider Frank Zappa a great political theorist.

I bet Frank Zappa never even considered you, pal!

[Martell Spy]

Must be Obama's fault, if a teleprompter is involved.

Trump Blames Teleprompter for Revolutionary War “Airports” Gaffe. Memes Ensue.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/07/revolutionarywarairports-meme-twitter-trump-speech-gaffe.html

Quote

 

Trump subsequently blamed the error on the teleprompter going “kaput,” though he also claimed to reporters that he “knew the speech very well.” The president further noted that it was generally difficult to read the teleprompter because of the rain.

Snarky viewers soon took to Twitter with the hashtag #RevolutionaryWarAirports to re-envision the war with other flight-related anachronisms.

 

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

Hmm I wonder if this is indication Trump will declare another “national emergency” to circumvent congress.  If so Moore’s vision on how Trump will attempt to hold permanent power seems to be becoming more reasonable. 

https://www.bing.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/07/05/trump-considers-executive-order-to-add-citizenship-question-to-census.html

[DMC]

54 minutes ago, Triskele said:

It's just a question of how many David Brooks there are out there.  A flip side to this though is also how motivated is the other side, and that's part of my fear.  That this issue is the thing that most acutely drove Trump's rise and that keep it front-and-center might play into Trump's hands.  I don't see how this can be dismissed.  

Immigration as an issue has already polarized the electorate.  I've said this many times in many different ways, but the path to beating Trump is not through trying to win the white racial resentment people back.  They're gone.  And even if they weren't, Trump will figure out a way to get them back.  The way to win is through exciting the minority population and those that didn't show up in 2016 but did for Obama.  As a second flank, the other way to win is by regaining all the third party voters that were just disgusted between the choice of Trump and Hillary.  A lot of those are indeed your David Brooks' and Andrew Sullivan's.  I don't know, maybe you need to pander to these people.  But something about even the idea of doing so make me feel slimy.

[Martell Spy]

27 minutes ago, DMC said:

Immigration as an issue has already polarized the electorate.  I've said this many times in many different ways, but the path to beating Trump is not through trying to win the white racial resentment people back.  They're gone.  And even if they weren't, Trump will figure out a way to get them back.  The way to win is through exciting the minority population and those that didn't show up in 2016 but did for Obama.  As a second flank, the other way to win is by regaining all the third party voters that were just disgusted between the choice of Trump and Hillary.  A lot of those are indeed your David Brooks' and Andrew Sullivan's.  I don't know, maybe you need to pander to these people.  But something about even the idea of doing so make me feel slimy.

I hear you about it feeling slimy. I would guess that it depends on the amount of pandering that is done. Was the Obama Beer Summit going too far? You definitely don't want to box yourself in with comments on policy. Or make actual policy concessions. You also don't want to chase a few votes by acting like Southern Strategy Republican.

 

Quote

 

I recently exchanged emails with a pro-Trump figure who attended the president’s reelection rally in Orlando, Florida, on June 18. (He spoke to me on the condition of anonymity, so as to avoid personal or professional repercussions.) He had interviewed scores of people, many of them evangelical Christians. “I have never witnessed the kind of excitement and enthusiasm for a political figure in my life,” he told me. “I honestly couldn’t believe the unwavering support they have. And to a person, it was all about ‘the fight.’ There is a very strong sense (I believe justified, you disagree) that he has been wronged. Wronged by Mueller, wronged by the media, wronged by the anti-Trump forces. A passionate belief that he never gets credit for anything.”

The rallygoers, he said, told him that Trump’s era “is spiritually driven.” When I asked whether he meant by this that Trump’s supporters believe God’s hand is on Trump, this moment and at the election—that Donald Trump is God’s man, in effect—he told me, “Yes—a number of people said they believe there is no other way to explain his victories. Starting with the election and continuing with the conclusion of the Mueller report. Many said God has chosen him and is protecting him.”

 

The Deepening Crisis in Evangelical Christianity
Support for Trump comes at a high cost for Christian witness.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/evangelical-christians-face-deepening-crisis/593353/

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Martell Spy said:

I would guess that it depends on the amount of pandering that is done. Was the Obama Beer Summit going too far? You definitely don't want to box yourself in with comments on policy. Or make actual policy concessions. You also don't want to chase a few votes by acting like Southern Strategy Republican.

I think you laid that out pretty well.  No, the Beer Summit is fine, who cares right?  And something like pursuing the Southern Strategy obviously means you've lost your way.  But there's a lot of landscape between those two.  The important thing, putting my operative hat on, is how many voters do these people actually represent?  I'm not sure it's that large.  And I'm not sure appeasing Brooks et al. is relevant to recouping the third party vote.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Immigration as an issue has already polarized the electorate.  I've said this many times in many different ways, but the path to beating Trump is not through trying to win the white racial resentment people back.  They're gone.  And even if they weren't, Trump will figure out a way to get them back.  The way to win is through exciting the minority population and those that didn't show up in 2016 but did for Obama.  As a second flank, the other way to win is by regaining all the third party voters that were just disgusted between the choice of Trump and Hillary.  A lot of those are indeed your David Brooks' and Andrew Sullivan's.  I don't know, maybe you need to pander to these people.  But something about even the idea of doing so make me feel slimy.

I think either you or someone who sounds like you threw up their hands in frustration in the last thread, proclaiming that everyone hates democrats because...I don't know, Bernie Sanders or something. Yet, I look at this and I see people like you as the problem. There are people out there who aren't full of racial resentment, who were bamboozled by a conman, but you're willing to cast them aside for--what you hate about the Bernie Bros--purity. Have you had a take that's not hot shit? Ever?

[DMC]

28 minutes ago, Triskele said:

I find it weird how much Sullivan seems to not be trusted by the left. 

Nah, I think the left has generally accepted him, over time.  My mother loves him and she's further left than me.  And if we're being precise, he doesn't really belong grouped with David Brooks, and certainly not Bret Stephens.  I just happen to strongly disagree with him on this issue.

33 minutes ago, Triskele said:

But what would you say to the thing I touched on (also perhaps traumatized by this) about how the immigration issue was huge in the rise of right-wing parties in Europe?  What is the conclusion here?  That this was but a blip?  That it's not the right analysis of what really caused that rise?  That it's accurate so far as most European situations go but can be dismissed in the American model?  

 

Oh, you're definitely right about that.  I'm 110 percent in agreement on the coinciding rise of immigration/refugees causing the rise in extremist right parties throughout the western world.  It's not a blip, and it's only gonna get worse.  It scares the shit out of me and I do lose sleep over it.  I don't have an answer to that.  But that's different from the question of whether Warren or Harris can win the general next year, which is what I'm concerned about.

13 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

Yet, I look at this and I see people like you as the problem. There are people out there who aren't full of racial resentment, who were bamboozled by a conman, but you're willing to cast them aside for--what you hate about the Bernie Bros--purity. Have you had a take that's not hot shit? Ever?

Wow this is like, I don't know how many orders of stupid in terms of reading comprehension.  I'm arguing not to appeal to the white racial resentment folks.  Get a fucking clue dude.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Triskele said:

But also sort of say all good cause here we go with Kamala or Warren.  Is the takeway that you think that the needle will be threaded in the American model with Trump being so awful and the US not being Europe and we don't need to overlearn their lesson?  

Nah, definitely not.  Americans certainly are not immune or can somehow circumvent trends that happen in other white places - that tend to be less racist, moreover.  My point is the way you beat them is by showing up.  Getting excited about a candidate.  People wanted to go out and vote for Obama.  Not many did for Hillary.  Will they for Biden?  Or even Sanders?  I'm not too confident about those.  I could see them doing it for Warren or Harris though.  Maybe Booker, but I think the top tier is already set.  Definitely could be wrong about that though.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Triskele said:

I think he's got a Saruman quality in a good way where the more he gets to speak the more he'll stand out.  

LOL.  That was my biggest gripe about Jackson's adaptation - we didn't get the voice of Saruman!  But I don't know how you do it on film, it'd be cheesy.  Anyway, entirely agreed with the rest of your post.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

56 minutes ago, DMC said:

Nah, I think the left has generally accepted him, over time.  My mother loves him and she's further left than me.  And if we're being precise, he doesn't really belong grouped with David Brooks, and certainly not Bret Stephens.  I just happen to strongly disagree with him on this issue.

Oh, you're definitely right about that.  I'm 110 percent in agreement on the coinciding rise of immigration/refugees causing the rise in extremist right parties throughout the western world.  It's not a blip, and it's only gonna get worse.  It scares the shit out of me and I do lose sleep over it.  I don't have an answer to that.  But that's different from the question of whether Warren or Harris can win the general next year, which is what I'm concerned about.

Wow this is like, I don't know how many orders of stupid in terms of reading comprehension.  I'm arguing not to appeal to the white racial resentment folks.  Get a fucking clue dude.

Hey don't get your feelings hurt pal. I called your takes shit, not you.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Simon Steele said:

Hey don't get your feelings hurt pal. I called your takes shit, not you.

My feelings aren't hurt.  You don't have the capability to hurt my feelings.  My point is you either continue to misunderstand what I was saying, or just don't care that you misrepresented my position.  Either way, um, cheers?  

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

10 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

I hear you about it feeling slimy. I would guess that it depends on the amount of pandering that is done. Was the Obama Beer Summit going too far? You definitely don't want to box yourself in with comments on policy. Or make actual policy concessions. You also don't want to chase a few votes by acting like Southern Strategy Republican.

 

The Deepening Crisis in Evangelical Christianity
Support for Trump comes at a high cost for Christian witness.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/evangelical-christians-face-deepening-crisis/593353/

The Evangelical Christian support for Trump is so bizarre and hypocritical to me given the decades of attacks launched at politicians for having substandard (in the Evangelical Christian view) private lives ultimately because of those politicians views on abortion.

 Evangelical Christians have become the ultimate one issue bloc of voters.  They don’t even care why someone comes to their POV on abortion so long as they publicly purport to hold it.  

It is truly acting without any rational thought.  They scare the shit out of me.

[Zorral]

Another perspective on whether the Dems supporting universal health care, including for asylum seeking immigrants, free higher education, taxation of the bloated billionaire class, etc. will offend old, white Joe Blow at the diner / cafe / Dairy Queen corner table is to look at who is telling us these policies will defeat the Dems in 2020. 

Why are these old white guys, who have been so wrong so often in the past, considered  the only ones worthy to comment on elections, campaigns, candidates and the rest of the hurly burly that is our every four-year national cycle of the political-media industry?  (I most definitely included Sullivan -- I for one find him a total idiot -- Brooks, and that Stephen in this very long, and very well paid list.

https://www.thecut.com/2019/07/politics-is-changing-why-arent-the-pundits-who-cover-it.html#_ga=2.75968853.1198303347.1562430618-2105090656.1562430618

Quote

 

...we’re also getting our first real taste of the punditry that will frame this next year and a half, and so far, it is the opposite of fresh, diverse, or forward-thinking. Rather, the analysis coughed up by some of the nation’s loudest and most prominent talking heads sounds familiar and stale. The dispiriting truth is that many of those tasked with interpreting our politics are — in addition to being extremely freaked out by the race they’re covering — totally ill-equipped for the historic task ahead of them. 

Where many Americans have seen the emergence of compelling and charismatic candidates who don’t look like those who’ve preceded them (but do look more like the country they want to lead), some prominent pundits seem to be looking at a field of people they simply can’t recognize as presidential. Where many hear Democratic politicians arguing vigorously on behalf of more justice and access to resources for people who have historically been kept at the margins of power, some prominent columnists are hearing a scary call to destabilization and chaos, imagining themselves on the outside of politics they’ve long assumed should be centered around them.

 

Whew, the comments to this piece are evidently almost all written / posted by white men, and, predictably, they are RIGHTEOUSLY OUTRAGED.

It's the same in arts, film and other criticism and commentary.  Those who have the national pulpit are generally aging, if not actually old, white and male.

Of course with art criticism, the way it used to be for writing history, and seems to be going back to this again, the only people who were able to write it were first, RICH, then male.

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

13 hours ago, DMC said:

Wow this is like, I don't know how many orders of stupid in terms of reading comprehension.  I'm arguing not to appeal to the white racial resentment folks.  Get a fucking clue dude

Would  Obama-Trump, voters fall into this category to you? Because I when I read this:

 

14 hours ago, DMC said:

Trump is not through trying to win the white racial resentment people back.

I assumed you were talking about them, and I think that was the group @Simon Steele thought you were casting aside. 

[Jace, Extat]

Z-baby, I know it makes you mad but some of those old white guys need to vote for our team. Now I'm not proposing that the Democratic platforms be warped to appease them, but shit like "healthcare for ALLLLLLL! And the undocumented folks too!!" Antagonizes them for no gain. That's bad politics. Democratic messaging should be designed to keep those dudes at home or trick them into voting for the good guys, not giving them another excuse to enable that orange piece of shit.

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Would  Obama-Trump, voters fall into this category to you? 

Yes.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

9 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Would  Obama-Trump, voters fall into this category to you? Because I when I read this:

 

I assumed you were talking about them, and I think that was the group @Simon Steele thought you were casting aside. 

Exactly. Those voters are not deplorable or alt-right nazis. They're desperate people who got conned, and we should absolutely try to help them. Too many "democrats" love a scorched earth policy, though. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

13 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

Exactly. Those voters are not deplorable or alt-right nazis. They're desperate people who got conned, and we should absolutely try to help them. Too many "democrats" love a scorched earth policy, though. 

That has bothered me too.