kiko Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 10 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said: There are dozens of us here. DOZENS! Yeah, we may even be able to finish this thread before Flintenuschis (yes, I can easily use auto complete now) term is finished. We will soon have elections and you are welcome to report on what's going on south of the border. How are the Greens doing in power? Any noticeable effect making it worth going to bed with Kurz? We may end up in the same situation - a hobbit, driven by the extreme right holding a green fig leaf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted June 4, 2021 Share Posted June 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, kiko said: Yeah, we may even be able to finish this thread before Flintenuschis (yes, I can easily use auto complete now) term is finished. We will soon have elections and you are welcome to report on what's going on south of the border. How are the Greens doing in power? Any noticeable effect making it worth going to bed with Kurz? We may end up in the same situation - a hobbit, driven by the extreme right holding a green fig leaf. Lol. Well I actually believe that none of prosecution of Kurz and Co would happen if we did not have green justice minister... If anything comes out of it I dunno. The destruction of the social net that started under the ÖVP/FPÖ government has not really continued although a lot of damage has been done already. Clearly a lesser evil imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alarich II Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Sachsen-Anhalt has voted. A surprisingly strong result for CDU, especially since they made inroads in the non-voter camp, a traditional reserve for AfD-voters who handed their party one of the first setbacks in Eastern Germany. The result for Die Linke is a total desaster for them, they are the biggest loser, both in total seats and in relation to their last result. In fact the entire leftist camp (Greens, SPD, Die Linke) are just barely past 25% - all three together. The Greens have not been able to translate their good national polling into actual voting results, AfD have lost and barely made it past 20%, and at least as important, they lost 14 out of their 15 direct mandates to the CDU. Still, they have more votes than any left party, which sucks, but considering that they wanted to top the CDU, it is a real setback, which is probably the best we could hope for anyway. SPD is not getting their feet on the ground, I don't really see how they can stay in a government coalition. FDP is going to be happy to be back in Parliament, but it remains to be seen what they will do with their seats. Coalition with Greens and CDU? Opposition stuck between AfD and Die Linke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted June 10, 2021 Author Share Posted June 10, 2021 Like I said, I didn't trust those poll numbers putting the Greens near the 10% there for a second. 5.9% is still a net gain, so I'll take that. FDP finding its way back in, that is regrettable. One of the less Green friendly regions, so not really floored by that result. My inner cynic feels like making a remark along the line, lifting the vaccine priorization Friday before an election was excellent timing. Dangles a carrot in the form of a syringe in front of the voter, and the lack of vaccines for it, will only become apparent after the election is done. On a general note. Fuck Jens Spahn. General note, I will still more or less happily vote for the Greens in the fall, but somewhat less enthusiatically than likesay 2 weeks ago. Meanwhile Die Linke is really having a go at each other. Oscar "der kleine Fremdarbeiter" Lafontaine lost his inner party pissing contest on who gets to be on top of the ballot in the Saarland and is now telling people not to vote for his party. And his wife, who is on top of the list in NRW is (finally) facing expulsion procedures. They are still unelectable for me due to their foreign policy stands (as I find that Putin fellating rather nauesating), but hey ousting Lafontaine (who should be next on the chopping block) and Wagenknecht would remove at least some toxicity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wondering Wolf Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Too bad that even in 2021 the Greens still don't know how publicity works. I would have considered to vote for them if they had had the chance to beat the CDU, but that's it, Laschet is gonna make it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiko Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 Yeah, they are still refreshingly naive after all those years. What did they do this time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toth Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, kiko said: Yeah, they are still refreshingly naive after all those years. What did they do this time? I actually don't know. The last couple of days headlines were plastered everywhere with how Baerbock dared to have a CV online that phrased some subjects she studied differently or forgot to include the dates of her membership status in a couple of NGOs. Absolutely unforgivable. Great, job, FAZ! Meanwhile the latest CDU corruption scandals neatly fall to the wayside, probably because everyone knows that this is nothing new for them and unlike them the Greens must be incorruptibly pure to be considered a serious contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wondering Wolf Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 As far as I can see, actually nothing really happened. But in the end it doesn't matter what actually happened, all that matters is that this is the second time Baerbock saw the need to apologise for something she did. People did not trust her that much from the beginning, and now it gets even worse. She wanted to run for chancellor, so in my opinion it's up to her and her team to make sure there is nothing that can be used against her - before she decides to run. An inexperienced candidate like this combined with the Greens' habit to drop statements which support their lable of the 'Verbots-Partei' is going to break their neck - as it did many times before. Which is quite sad in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Toth said: I actually don't know. The last couple of days headlines were plastered everywhere with how Baerbock dared to have a CV online that phrased some subjects she studied differently or forgot to include the dates of her membership status in a couple of NGOs. Absolutely unforgivable. Great, job, FAZ! Meanwhile the latest CDU corruption scandals neatly fall to the wayside, probably because everyone knows that this is nothing new for them and unlike them the Greens must be incorruptibly pure to be considered a serious contender. Yeah objectively the tiny scandals the Greens had in recent months are irrelevant. That they are neo-liberals with bicycles that are partially to blame for shit like Hartz IV is far worse. But that makes the SPD completely unelectable too. Is there are single party in Germany that is not anti-working class? Yeah for Hartz IV, mini-jobs, "Werkverträge", old-age poverty and the exploitation of workers from eastern Europe I guess. It is good for the economy after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wondering Wolf Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 5 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said: That they are neo-liberals with bicycles that are partially to blame for shit like Hartz IV is far worse. But that makes the SPD completely unelectable too. Not implying you are one of them, but I never get when people criticise the Greens or the SPD for the Schröder years and then vote for FDP or CDU. Or vote for CDU and complain that the SPD is not social democratic enough. And there must be a few of them. While the points you make are not wrong (although I would argue a bit with the neo-liberal lable - except you are communist, but then almost everyone is neo-liberal to you), 16 years later I would have been willing to give them another chance. Both the Greens and the SPD want to put an end to Hartz IV after all. On the one hand I totally see why the SPD gets so much dislike. On the other hand I think things would even be worse if they were not part of the government. And I am afraid we will learn that soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, The Wondering Wolf said: Not implying you are one of them, but I never get when people criticise the Greens or the SPD for the Schröder years and then vote for FDP or CDU. Or vote for CDU and complain that the SPD is not social democratic enough. And there must be a few of them. While the points you make are not wrong (although I would argue a bit with the neo-liberal lable - except you are communist, but then almost everyone is neo-liberal to you), 16 years later I would have been willing to give them another chance. Both the Greens and the SPD want to put an end to Hartz IV after all. On the one hand I totally see why the SPD gets so much dislike. On the other hand I think things would even be worse if they were not part of the government. And I am afraid we will learn that soon enough. Yeah that makes no sense. I'm from Austria but tend to follow German politics a bit. I actually think that Merkel was a lesser evil than Schröder who was the worst kind of "left" politician just like Tony Blair. If I was from Germany I would find it difficult to trust the Greens or the SPD again though but there are no real alternatives I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiko Posted June 11, 2021 Share Posted June 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Luzifer's right hand said: If I was from Germany I would find it difficult to trust the Greens or the SPD again though but there are no real alternatives I guess. That. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loge Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Historically, the SPD has been a workers party. But that demographic has drastically shrunk. They'd have to win the middle class, wich most of the former working class belongs to now (depending on how you define middle class). If they really think revoking the Harz laws will get them anywhere near a majority or even a position where they can lead a government then they are in for a disappointment. The 15 percent they currently get in the opinion polls are about the potential for such a platform. What Schroeder did was seen as betrayal by parts of the party membership, but it it won im a re-election and he was beaten by Merkel by razor-thin margin over, although part of his party were in open rebellion of had already left. If there's any party that could potentially be successful with an old-style leftist platform it's the Left, not the SPD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiko Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Not that I'm really a fan but sometimes I think we will miss her as soon as we see those who will be in power after get Who are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, kiko said: Not that I'm really a fan but sometimes I think we will miss her as soon as we see those who will be in power after get Who are you? Well at least most of her values are not from the stone age. I think she is a decentish person from a moral point of view at least compared to the rest of her party. I mean she voted to make martial rape a crime in the 90s unlike many other CSU/CDU parliamentarians. Hell she even lives a mostly middle classish life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wondering Wolf Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 21 hours ago, Loge said: What Schroeder did was seen as betrayal by parts of the party membership, but it it won im a re-election and he was beaten by Merkel by razor-thin margin over I would see it differently, though. Schröder came into office after 16 years of CDU chancellorship, people had high hopes and he almost got beaten by one of the most confused politicians in recent German history (and a member of the CSU besides) after only four years. He was an excellent campaigner and the most embarassing chancellor at the same time. His attitude was disdainful to the weak ones and his agenda tore the SPD apart. He did not even finish his second term. I also think that it was rather close when he ran against Merkel in 2005 is due to Merkel not being as confident and statesmanlike as she is today. I seem to remember it also was the last time Merkel went with rather polarizing stances which she usually avoided to do after that. So while some (even in the SPD) wish back the Schröder times, in my opinion Schröder is one of the reasons the party has been struggling since 16 years. 21 hours ago, Loge said: If there's any party that could potentially be successful with an old-style leftist platform it's the Left, not the SPD. I think it's pretty difficult to promote a left agenda at federal level. The business lobby is quite strong and fights anything that would distribute wealth and incomes more equally. And while many people in general seem to approve the things the SPD put forward during the previous governments, they take it for granted and base their election vote on different topics. I think the CDU wouldn't still get the support they get if the SPD had not been coalition partner for most of the Merkel years. Usually the SPD did the work and the CDU got the votes. If the Left party wants to become more successful, they need to get rid of these communist flirtings and their weird takes on some autocratic regimes in particular and foreign policies in general first. I think finding new ways to improve the life of the 'common people' is the job of left parties in the twenty-first century. And both the SPD and the Left party haven't really gone into this so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 So Laschet is really doubling down on being completely unlikeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wondering Wolf Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said: So Laschet is really doubling down on being completely unlikeable. Doesn't matter anymore, the Green's campaign has been a disaster, so Laschet is going to be the next chancellor for sure. He might even form a coalition with FDP and SPD, leaving the Greens in the opposition again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 On 7/18/2021 at 12:35 PM, The Wondering Wolf said: Doesn't matter anymore, the Green's campaign has been a disaster, so Laschet is going to be the next chancellor for sure. He might even form a coalition with FDP and SPD, leaving the Greens in the opposition again. Hmm I thought the AFD is the opposition to Germany and that the CDU had been deliberate in trying to isolate them specifically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiko Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 49 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Hmm I thought the AFD is the opposition to Germany and that the CDU had been deliberate in trying to isolate them specifically? AfD is in the parliament and happens to be the biggest faction not currently in the government coalition. Doesn't mean they are The Opposition. They are basically just an embarrassment lowering the quality of parliamentary discourse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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