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Jeor

Cricket 35: Bat first, bat often

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6 hours ago, Paxter said:

I'm waiting for the inevitable England collapse...

They're saving it for the final...

Whatever Sunday brings, England did finally live up to their number 1 ranking today, that was a dominant performance. Smith and Carey fought hard and looked like they might be making a game of it, but other than they were comprehensively outplayed.

4 hours ago, Paxter said:

I also prefer Bairstow up the order a bit and not 'keeping. 

If Root could do the right thing and bat at first drop then you would have as your Ashes XI:

  1. Roy
  2. Burns
  3. Root
  4. Bairstow
  5. Buttler 
  6. Stokes
  7. Foakes (wk)
  8. Ali
  9. Woakes/Curran/Archer
  10. Broad
  11. Anderson

I think that looks like a good selection. Roy is a bit of a risk but he'll be high on confidence and he does have a fair amount of first class experience, even if his average is unspectacular.

There might be more debate about the bowlers. With Woakes and Archer bowling so well in the World Cup there might be an argument for dropping Stuart Broad, even if it would be a bit harsh (also harsh on Curran). I suspect we might be see some variation in the bowling attacks, since some of the bowlers might struggle with the workload of a five test series.

I think there's also an argument for selecting Jack Leach rather than Moeen as the spinner.

3 hours ago, Paxter said:

A random question: how on earth did Kenya make it to the semi-finals of the 2003 World Cup? I was looking at some old results and this caught my eye. Bizarro. I don't even remember that!

I forget the exact details but I seem to remember they benefited from some other teams refusing to play their games in Zimbabwe and forfeiting matches. It was a weird tournament.

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3 hours ago, Paxter said:

Full disclosure - I had already seen a few articles posted about Kohli before I did my own research. I just think it's a bit more of a material talking point than the incessant Dhoni bashing/defending. Particularly when Virat is statistically one of the greatest ODI batsmen of all time. 

ETA: RE: Denly, I'm sure he has been in career form recently or else he wouldn't be in the conversation averaging mid-30s in FC cricket. My problem with it is that number 3 is the most sacrosanct position in the batting order for mine. Pujara was vital at 3 against Australia last summer. I don't care that Kohli is at 4...The Don batted at 3!

And here I was thinking that @Paxter was the stats whisperer of the cricketing world! Ah no worries - even if you hadn't seen the articles I know you would've picked up on it anyway! It is interesting to see how Kohli's record is worse off in those crunch matches. I wonder what the record of the other Indian batsmen is in similar situations. Before seeing those stats I generally would have assumed Kohli would be a big game player but that's going to niggle at him. Whereas there's no doubting that Smith and Williamson are solid as a rock when the pressure's on.

Re the batting order, Australia have had problems finding a 3 as well. Khawaja has seemed ok in recent years but people have argued Smith should be there since he's the side's best batsman and should get the maximum time to bat. Now with Khawaja out, it'll be interesting to see how Australia approach it. I suspect in England the No. 3 is going to be exposed quite a bit to the new ball as our openers will have trouble dealing with the English conditions.

 

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43 minutes ago, williamjm said:

I think there's also an argument for selecting Jack Leach rather than Moeen as the spinner.

Moeen has 44 wickets at an average of 23 since his recall last summer, and took 30 at 21 in the Summer of 2017. It would be madness to drop him. 

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18 minutes ago, Philokles said:

Moeen has 44 wickets at an average of 23 since his recall last summer, and took 30 at 21 in the Summer of 2017. It would be madness to drop him. 

I guess it’s a good position for England to be in. We know how good Mo is in England, but if that doesn’t quite work then JL is a great quality replacement.

I’ll have to think about what kind of XI Australia should play. The batting is all over the place and Pattinson will be pushing hard for a bowling slot.

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25 minutes ago, Philokles said:

Moeen has 44 wickets at an average of 23 since his recall last summer, and took 30 at 21 in the Summer of 2017. It would be madness to drop him. 

It's a fair point, I was looking more at his poor form so far in the World Cup, but he has be performing well in Tests the last couple of years.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Paxter said:

I’ll have to think about what kind of XI Australia should play. The batting is all over the place and Pattinson will be pushing hard for a bowling slot.

Oh, I realised I didn't congratulate England on the win over Australia (said through gritted teeth). It was a comprehensive thrashing, so well done to them. I just hope the Kiwis can avenge us!

Re: the Australian lineup it is entirely unsettled. It's also been 6 months since we've played any Tests so I can barely remember which people played and what our Test team actually looks like especially given the new faces over the Warner/Smith bans. I think it is likely to be:

1. David Warner

2. Joe Burns / Marcus Harris / Matt Renshaw / (Bancroft or Finch unlikely)

3. ???

4. Steve Smith

5. Peter Handscombe / Kurtis Patterson?

6. Mitch Marsh (groan) / Travis Head / Carey/Wade (better)

7. Tim Paine

8. Pat Cummins

9. Mitch Starc

10. Nathan Lyon

11. Josh Hazlewood / James Pattinson

Khawaja and Shaun Marsh being injured really means the batsmen are very light on experience. Smith may have to move up to 3 so the rest can slot in behind, although Handscombe isn't a 4 - he's a better player of spin than pace.

Edited by Jeor

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No love for Labuschagne Jeor?!

(I must admit he’s the most unfashionable player I’ve seen Australia select in a long time). 

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Nice win for England. Kind of glad they are in the final rather than Aus. I would think NZ has a better chance of beating Aus, but I'm happy that there is no chance of Aus beating us in the final for the second time in a row. I expect England to win, regardless of the toss, so I'll be happy if NZ just makes it a competitive match.

Thoughts on whether Semis and finals should be BO3 or 5 rather than one off? It is a bloody long tournament already, but still.

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1 hour ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Nice win for England. Kind of glad they are in the final rather than Aus. I would think NZ has a better chance of beating Aus, but I'm happy that there is no chance of Aus beating us in the final for the second time in a row. I expect England to win, regardless of the toss, so I'll be happy if NZ just makes it a competitive match.

I think Australia is a much bigger psychological obstacle than England - our ODI record against Australia is roughly analogous to the Australian rugby team against the All Blacks (not great). We actually have a winning ODI record against England.

That said, I fully expect England to win the final. But seeing as they've never won it before either, I think they'd appreciate it more than Australia. 

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When I say a better chance of beating Aus, I mean 30% vs 25% or something like that. With both teams, odds are not in NZ's favour. If it was NZ vs England somewhere other than the UK I'd give it a 50/50.

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Seems we have standing playing ODI's against England at Lord's, we've won the only two completed encounters there.

On the merits of England's current form I'm expecting a victory from them - but as long as we can make them fight for every run and chase every ball, capitulation is not an option here, there is hope we can cause an upset. 

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9 hours ago, Paxter said:

No love for Labuschagne Jeor?!

(I must admit he’s the most unfashionable player I’ve seen Australia select in a long time). 

None at all! Labuschagne is a punk and should never have been selected. The only reason he got in the side was because of the Smith/Warner ban and the selectors' weird desperation for leg spin.

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5 hours ago, Jeor said:

None at all! Labuschagne is a punk and should never have been selected. The only reason he got in the side was because of the Smith/Warner ban and the selectors' weird desperation for leg spin.

Haha well he is carving it up for Glamorgan. Made hundreds in both innings of his last match and already has over 1000 runs for the season (only player in both County divisions to do so). 

I think things could've been very interesting in the final if Roy had been suspended and good ol' Vince was opening up against Henry and Boult. As it is England is very well placed but they don't really love Lord's...

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1 hour ago, Paxter said:

Haha well he is carving it up for Glamorgan. Made hundreds in both innings of his last match and already has over 1000 runs for the season (only player in both County divisions to do so). 

Bah! I still maintain that the selectors saw a part time leggie with a bits and pieces batting technique and thought they were getting the second coming of Steve Smith! Which, to be fair, no one could have seen coming at the start of Smith's career.

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1 hour ago, Jeor said:

Bah! I still maintain that the selectors saw a part time leggie with a bits and pieces batting technique and thought they were getting the second coming of Steve Smith! Which, to be fair, no one could have seen coming at the start of Smith's career.

His test bowling SR of 40 balls is much better than Steve Smith's! Might have some work to do in the batting department to match it with Smith. 

Personally I don't see him as a test-quality batsman. But I do like Patterson, Burns and Harris. Renshaw is not quite there yet but will be one for the future. I'm also a bit of a Head skeptic. If anything I think he's more of an ODI player, but he seems to have fallen out of favour in that format. 

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Patterson and Burns are at least serious Test-stye batsmen, with proper techniques, 40+ first-class averages (and a 40+ Test averages, although Patterson's is only based on 2 innings). Labuschagne's first-class batting average is a decent 37 but for whatever reason I just don't put him in the same "serious and proper" batsman territory.

I really wonder who Warner's opening partner is going to be, there are quite a few options. For seniority's sake I'd say Joe Burns gets the nod but you never know what the selectors are thinking.

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1 hour ago, Jeor said:

Patterson and Burns are at least serious Test-stye batsmen, with proper techniques, 40+ first-class averages (and a 40+ Test averages, although Patterson's is only based on 2 innings). Labuschagne's first-class batting average is a decent 37 but for whatever reason I just don't put him in the same "serious and proper" batsman territory.

I really wonder who Warner's opening partner is going to be, there are quite a few options. For seniority's sake I'd say Joe Burns gets the nod but you never know what the selectors are thinking.

Harris performed well against India but he missed out on the one or two centuries he could have scored if he had gone on. Burns has grabbed opportunities more firmly in the past and I think should be rewarded on that basis.

I also think Warner and Harris might be a little too similar as batsmen - variety helps at the top of the order.

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3 minutes ago, Paxter said:

Harris performed well against India but he missed out on the one or two centuries he could have scored if he had gone on. Burns has grabbed opportunities more firmly in the past and I think should be rewarded on that basis.

I also think Warner and Harris might be a little too similar as batsmen - variety helps at the top of the order.

Actually I just checked, Burns is also coming off 180 against Sri Lanka in his last Test, so you'd think he'd get the nod.

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Posted (edited)

WTF are you doing up this late Jeor :blink:

Variety is overrated. Pick your best players. Sick of shit leggies and average right/left handers getting into team because of variety. Harris played really well and should have sealed his spot, or let Khawaja open, Smith at 3. Left right combo is stupid if you have to downgrade the quality of batters to match that strategy.

This isn't the first time Burns looked good and then sucked on international stage. He is like Maxwell, but for test matches. Everyone wants him to do well and thinks he is tops but he keeps being dissapointing.

Edited by The Winged Shadow

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, The Winged Shadow said:

WTF are you doing up this late Jeor :blink:

Variety is overrated. Pick your best players. Sick of shit leggies and average right/left handers getting into team because of variety. Harris played really well and should have sealed his spot, or let Khawaja open, Smith at 3. Left right combo is stupid if you have to downgrade the quality of batters to match that strategy.

This isn't the first time Burns looked good and then sucked on international stage. He is like Maxwell, but for test matches. Everyone wants him to do well and thinks he is tops but he keeps being dissapointing.

Burns hater! Go elope with Marcus, Niloy!

I assume Jeor is still in the UK?

ETA: Also, in no way is four centuries in 16 test matches a bad return for Burns!

Edited by Paxter

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