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US Politics: Wondering the Acosta


DMC

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8 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Actually, the impetus is not on Democrats to solve the problem. It's to paint Republicans as responsible.

So basically blame Repubs (easy enough to do I and whole heatedly agree), and then if anyone asks about any concrete policy just obfuscate and deflect, kind of a 'repeal and replace with something better' approach?  I'm genuinely wondering and not looking to discuss whether or not undocumented people should have access to healthcare.  I'm wondering about everything else.

Eta: obvs this is a volatile and changing situation that could likely be very different a year from now.

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14 minutes ago, Triskele said:

Still a bit mystified that anyone thinks this is of interest to me because of my personal thoughts on what immigration policy should be.  For what it's worth, I think Trump's border policies are atrocious.  We definitely need more resources and different people leading the situation, so getting someone else in the White House is vital as it seems there's no end in sight to this shit as long as it's Trump.  

So if getting Trump out is vital then not having blind spots about how to do this is also vital, so it's worth considering where the full electorate is on this stuff.

You might be 100% correct that these centers are not an overrated issue.  Whether or not the electoral college writ large feels the same way remains to be seen. 

 

 

Sorry, not asking how anyone personally feels.  Asking because you linked the article and we've been talking about it for a week.  I guess my point is that you'd think someone would what to know what Dems propose to do about the issue.  O'Rourke says "there are other ways of not separating families" compared to Castro's desire to make crossing a civil offense only.  What are those options?  

What's the right angle to take?  

I lived ten miles from the border for four years and worked in a Spanish speaking work place.  Well aware that the latinx community isn't a monolith on immigration.  I also am currently involved with the sanctuary movement in my own county that provides rides, coaches on how to deal with law enforcement, etc.  I guarantee you that it is an issue for a lot of people.  And those votes may be secure, but how do you fish for the votes that you're thinking are turned off by being too progressive?  

The article you linked also mentions that Dems are already being accused of angling for open borders.  Is there any reason to believe this will stop even if they tack hard to the right?  What can they do to actually appease these voters that you and Jace are concerned about?  All we've heard so far is : (1) don't talk about healthcare for undocumented immigrants 

That might fly in the primaries, but with these camps and detention centers in the spotlight and Trump shouting about increased enforcement how are candidates supposed to navigate this?  They can't avoid it forever.

 

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What's nuts is that people have no issue changing their behavior for war - my grandparents talked about how war time rationing during WWII was tough but there was always this idea that it was necessary to face an existential threat.  I guess when it's not some person in the other end of a gun or lurking off shore in a sub it's tougher to adjust.  Its almost like if there were something like the Paris Accords or a way to keep Bolsonaro from hacking the rainforest to bits or to give the developing world an alternative to dumping their trash in the ocean or governments that didn't mind taking a hardline to the petroleum industry we could actually mitigate some of the effects.  

Personally I'm kind of with Jace on that one, if 6 or 7 billion people need to die to make us change our behavior and stop poisoning the planet so be it.  In the meantime we'll likely kill off everything but the gulls, jellyfish, molds, ants cockaroaches, and Keef R, but life will find away. 

I remember in middle school reading all my dad's Tom Clancy books and sympathizing with the ecoterrorist antagonists in Rainbow Six.  Was super bummed they failed.

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It's like Jesus, Pence going there.

Quote

 

Almost 400 migrant men were so severely packed into detention cages at a Texas border facility Friday that they could not lie down on the concrete floor at the same time to sleep, according to a report from a pool of reporters traveling with Vice President Mike Pence. There were no cots, mats or pillows for them to sleep on, and several men said that they had been in the cages, largely unwashed, for 40 days.

“The stench was horrendous,” reported Washington Post journalist Josh Dawsey.

 

Nearly 400 Migrant Men Crammed Into Cages Amid ‘Horrendous’ Stench On Mike Pence Tour
Some of the men shouted to reporters that they were hungry or wanted to brush their teeth. The Texas facility had no shower until Thursday, a federal agent said.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/texas-cages-mike-pence-stench_n_5d294a51e4b02a5a5d5b06fc

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6 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

It's like Jesus, Pence going there.

Nearly 400 Migrant Men Crammed Into Cages Amid ‘Horrendous’ Stench On Mike Pence Tour
Some of the men shouted to reporters that they were hungry or wanted to brush their teeth. The Texas facility had no shower until Thursday, a federal agent said.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/texas-cages-mike-pence-stench_n_5d294a51e4b02a5a5d5b06fc

The video of him interacting with the children  of imprisoned asylum seekers is enough to make me hope he maybe steps into traffic or jumps in front of a fucking truck.  

 

23 minutes ago, Triskele said:

On that note, and I'm quite serious about this, I'm kind of baffled that ecoterrorism is so rare.  

ETA: Kinda like why is Inslee getting no traction.  Is this shit serious or not?  

This brings out my inner tinfoil-hattery (doesn't really take much), and start nodding along to Chomsky and the whole "these people are permitted to run for office by the actual powers that be".  And I say this earnestly while listening to a podcast shredding these Q Anon freaks.  Life is a gradual release from ignorance.

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49 minutes ago, Triskele said:

"I'll reshape CBP and ICE from top to bottom, focusing their efforts on homeland security efforts like screening cargo, identifying counterfeit gods and preventing smuggling and trafficking," she wrote.

Aren't all gods "counterfeit?"

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2 hours ago, Triskele said:

538 has a good little rundown on how the next debate cutoff is one.  

Quote

Outside of the five who have made it, three candidates have surpassed the 130,000 donor mark — former Rep. Beto O’Rourke, former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Julian Castro and businessman Andrew Yang — although their polling situations are still up in the air. O’Rourke has hit at least 2 percent in three surveys, putting him right on the cusp of qualification, while Castro and Yang each have one qualifying poll. Granted, as I wrote earlier this week in my six-month review of primary polls, O’Rourke’s numbers have been trending in the wrong direction, but he should be able to get one more poll of 2 percent or more, while Castro and Yang are on thinner ice.

You're one poll away from losing the bet on Beto, @Tywin et al., I like my chances (sorry for the double post).

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There's a massive power outage in Manhattan (including Times Square where power has just been restored). New York City mayor Bill de Blasio is... nowhere to be seen. Apparently, he's off campaigning somewhere.

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Did not think I'd be defending Paul Ryan at any time in the future, but this is pretty ludicrous. Trump is the guy that the British pull out the baby balloons for when he comes to town. He is completely the baby in all situations and everyone knows it.

Quote

 

Trump's repeated attacks against Ryan this week came after the publication of book excerpts on Wednesday detailing the former speaker's negative views of Trump during the 2016 campaign and his first two years as president.

Trump late Thursday first attacked Ryan by tweet as “leaving his Party in the lurch both as a fundraiser & leader” ahead of a visit to Ryan’s home state of Wisconsin. Addressing reporters hours later, Trump called the former speaker a "baby."

 

Trump: Republicans like Paul Ryan are 'weak, ineffective & stupid'

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/13/trump-paul-ryan-1415660

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3 hours ago, Triskele said:

On that note, and I'm quite serious about this, I'm kind of baffled that ecoterrorism is so rare.  

ETA: Kinda like why is Inslee getting no traction.  Is this shit serious or not?  

The last bit of ecoterrorism I can recall was the Squamish 5 up in Canada. At least it’s the last I’m aware of because of reading up on them over the winter given how I randomly found out a band I listened to had to call it quits for a few years when their bassist was sent to prison for being apart of the group.

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1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

Did not think I'd be defending Paul Ryan at any time in the future, but this is pretty ludicrous. Trump is the guy that the British pull out the baby balloons for when he comes to town. He is completely the baby in all situations and everyone knows it.

Trump: Republicans like Paul Ryan are 'weak, ineffective & stupid'

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/13/trump-paul-ryan-1415660

If it comes to defending Trump or Ryan, I'd go with Ryan every time. He is a cowardly, spineless entitled shit, but at least he has guiding principals. I strongly disagree with him and think he's hypocritical, but I think that he was at least more-or-less qualified for the position he held. Trump is a buffoon with zero self-awareness and an ego larger than his lack of self-awareness with skin thinner than the thinnest I've ever seen on any peach. Ryan over Trump, all day every day.

And to be clear, Ryan is a horrible little shit and I couldn't be happier that he's out of congress. I could wish that his career in politics in general is over, but obviously he's going to be rewarded for being who he is. I'll have to be satisfied that at least he's gone from public service.

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13 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

If it comes to defending Trump or Ryan, I'd go with Ryan every time. He is a cowardly, spineless entitled shit, but at least he has guiding principals. I strongly disagree with him and think he's hypocritical, but I think that he was at least more-or-less qualified for the position he held. Trump is a buffoon with zero self-awareness and an ego larger than his lack of self-awareness with skin thinner than the thinnest I've ever seen on any peach. Ryan over Trump, all day every day.

And to be clear, Ryan is a horrible little shit and I couldn't be happier that he's out of congress. I could wish that his career in politics in general is over, but obviously he's going to be rewarded for being who he is. I'll have to be satisfied that at least he's gone from public service.

Paul Ryan will be president by 2032, so you've got that to look forward to.

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This is exactly what I've long suspected. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/kim-darroch-leak-memo-trump-iran-nuclear-deal-obama-latest-met-police-a9003951.html

Trump basically killed the Iran Nuke agreement out of his crybaby spite for Obama. I do not think this idiot in our White House has ever had an original thought, he is motivated through pure infantile emotion.

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5 hours ago, Triskele said:

Taking this quite literally, and the answer may just be "perhaps."  One of the comments I made when first talking about this thread was something like "you get the electorate that you have, not necessarily the electorate you want."

ETA:  I think there's something worth delving further into in your post.  I would guess, tell me if I'm wrong, that your reaction is close to 100% based on your thoughts on what is the right moral stance on immigration about close to 0% based on any kind of calculus about beating Trump.  Is that correct?

If we wake up the day after Trump has won re-election but you talked a big game are you happier than if Trump loses?

 

I’m not gonna be happy either way because Democrats will still be putting people in concentration camps, but they’ll make it roomier and give them hygiene products. 

 

But given your posts that come across as victim blaming the rise of fascism in this country on immigrants and the Dems not being far right enough to appease white supremacists, I’m gonna take it you’re not gonna be happy unless Dems do go the keep the concentration camps, but make them slightly more “humane”.

Nah what has allowed the far right to rise is a propaganda machine in Fox News, the rest of the media treating the right wings opinion as legitimate thanks to their spineless “objectivity” way of “reporting”, and old out of touch liberals insisting on trying to “work” with a party that has had fascist tendencies for decades. It doesn’t help the racism in this country has not been properly dealt with either. 

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A 68/69 year old anarchist in Tacoma Washington was shot and killed for torching the vehicles ICE is going to be using during their gestapo round ups. He didn’t shoot at the cops even though he was armed, but he was still killed, over property destruction. 

 

Its funny how every last militia fool that went on about gun rights because "when the government starts rounding people up in camps we'll need to fight back" is  cheering government jackbooted thugs on for shooting the one honest american who did precisely that. 

 

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32 minutes ago, Bonnot OG said:

A 68/69 year old anarchist in Tacoma Washington was shot and killed for torching the vehicles ICE is going to be using during their gestapo round ups. He didn’t shoot at the cops even though he was armed, but he was still killed, over property destruction. 

 

Its funny how every last militia fool that went on about gun rights because "when the government starts rounding people up in camps we'll need to fight back" is  cheering government jackbooted thugs on for shooting the one honest american who did precisely that. 

 

link?

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