US Politics: Wondering the Acosta

[The Anti-Targ]

Just now, Jace, Basilissa said:

Less people should have babies, but most won't do the responsible thing anyway so my opinions on this subject are moot.

Agreed it's moot. But one should still try to have a coherent view on the matter. Fewer people should be having babies (which means people should still be having babies), but all people should be condemned for having them? I can get behind the notion that people should be having fewer children, but fewer people having children is nonsensical. Though both would have a hard time being turned into workable public policy, at least the former would be less eugenics-y sounding. 

[DMC]

So I took a look at the poll reported by Axios, and there's no way to know the methodology precisely - the findings were just leaked to Allen.  However, first off, the poll was from May.  Second, it was a sample of 1,003 likely general election voters who were white and had 2-years or less of college, otherwise knows as white non-educated voters.  Anyway, the results:

Quote

Ocasio-Cortez was recognized by 74% of voters in the poll; 22% had a favorable view.

Rep. Ilhan Omar of Minnesota — another member of The Squad — was recognized by 53% of the voters; 9% (not a typo) had a favorable view. 

Socialism was viewed favorably by 18% of the voters and unfavorably by 69%.

Capitalism was 56% favorable; 32% unfavorable.

"Socialism is toxic to these voters," said the top Democrat.

Between the lines: Dems are performing better with these voters than in 2016 (although still not as well as in 2018). So party leaders will continue to try to define themselves around more mainstream members.

Emphasis mine.  So, while I wouldn't refer to this as a traditional push poll, of course these voters are going to have unfavorable views of AOC, Omar, and socialism.  This really is not a surprising finding in the slightest - especially considering we don't even know the partisan makeup of the poll.

[Larry of the Lawn]

1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

As an aside, I couldn't take some of the dissenters seriously when they kept bringing up "lack of guard rails". Like, that's totally something that should be provided. But how inept is your messaging that you're citing lack of guard rails as a sticking point when little girls are being raped, folks can't bathe, and children are sleeping on the ground.

It makes me roll my eyes and I'm on their side on this.

Agreed on the guard rails thing.  Would be nice to see some guidance here from some of the establishment Dems.  Because right now the Squad has way more of a following and is getting more attention than the old guard.  Anyone know if there's a list of MOCs who have visited border sites?  All I know is the trash from the Pence video and then AOC and Castro.

[Jace, Extat]

14 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Agreed it's moot. But one should still try to have a coherent view on the matter. Fewer people should be having babies (which means people should still be having babies), but all people should be condemned for having them? I can get behind the notion that people should be having fewer children, but fewer people having children is nonsensical. Though both would have a hard time being turned into workable public policy, at least the former would be less eugenics-y sounding. 

I never suggested public policy. I stated that I think it's stupid and selfish to subject a child to the coming world. And then I stated that people will fuck anyways because we as a species are not nearly as smart as we think.

I'm not exactly sure what you want to interpret from my statement. It was kind of a throwaway shot at breeders.

[Varysblackfyre321]

56 minutes ago, Triskele said:

And yes, infighting is really getting going now.  Hopefully it's something that will just sort itself out as the primaries move along, but I'm not sure.  And if I wanted Trump to win Dem disunity would greatly excite me.  

I imagine Trump’s recent comments in regards to Omar, and Cruz, was for this specific purpose. Make Pelosi publicly stand beside them, and defend them, (enforcing the idea they’re face of the Democratic Party), making it easier for them to drive a wedge in the party as well make Pelosi more likely hesitant to try to discipline them.

 

[Raja]

DMC covered the inadequacies of that poll well, and I'd add to that the fact that not all polls are created equal. Things like the wording of the poll, *who* conducted the poll ( not all pollsters are created equal either), the wording of the answers give etc are all important points that you need to look at when you're evaluating the strength of the poll.

 

[Ormond]

On 7/11/2019 at 5:06 PM, Tywin et al. said:

Ladies, Gentlemen and Jace, I give you the President of the United States of America:

 

 

@Ormond, you're my second favorite personality psychology professor (the one I had wore wolf themed shirts to class every day). Is there a niche diagnosis for someone who constantly has to brag about their looks while tearing down others' appearance? Or is it just a defense mechanism and his is on the same steroids Jose Canseco took? 

I was at the Nebraska Psychological Society annual faculty retreat this weekend and just saw this --

I don't know that you need any more evaluation of this than just to point out it's one more example of Trump's extreme narcissism. He constantly brags about all sorts of aspects of his self and tears down those who he considers his "competition" in any of those aspects. He does this by pre-emptively accusing them of having the negative characteristics he knows others believe he has. I've come to simply think that whenever he insults someone else on any issue, he is really describing himself in a knee-jerk form of narcissistic denial. 

[DMC]

10 minutes ago, Raja said:

I'd add to that the fact that not all polls are created equal.

It'd also note the leak rather pointedly omits AOC and Omar's disapproval.  Just because only 22% had a favorable view of AOC but she had 74% name ID does not mean she has 52% disapproval with the sample.  Both her and especially Omar might have a significant "no opinion" proportion (or at least certainly soft favorables and unfavorables) even among those who know who they are, particularly because they're so new to the national scene.

[Zorral]

10 minutes ago, Ormond said:

I was at the Nebraska Psychological Society annual faculty retreat this weekend and just saw this --

I don't know that you need any more evaluation of this than just to point out it's one more example of Trump's extreme narcissism. He constantly brags about all sorts of aspects of his self and tears down those who he considers his "competition" in any of those aspects. He does this by pre-emptively accusing them of having the negative characteristics he knows others believe he has. I've come to simply think that whenever he insults someone else on any issue, he is really describing himself in a knee-jerk form of narcissistic denial.

People have been commenting this is how he operates for decades already.

[Raja]

4 minutes ago, Triskele said:

But how can you say it's hot garbage if you don't know those factors?  

If someone doesn't like the use of the poll and the timing I can understand that.  But I hope that the party is doing internal polling and doing it well and being informed by it. 

Did you read DMC's post?

[Jace, Extat]

New thread, bitches!

 

[Bonnot OG]

3 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Ah... the one who it seems was throwing around explosive devices? I fucking hate police of all stripes, but I can't condemn ICE for shooting someone armed with bombs and actively deploying said weapons.

Cutting the fuel or brake lines, fuck yeah. Slash the tires to your heart's content. Chaining yourselves to the wheels, risky but badass. Throwing bombs at federal property? Things that cause (by definition) unstable reactions? That's a no-go for Jace unless you have the active backing of an armed revolution that consists of the oppressed majority.

 

They threw molotovs. Those are hardly explosive devices and they threw them at stationary / parked / unmanned vehicles. 

 

This government is a white supremacist administration and the senate is controlled by a white supremacist party. ICE is an armed wing of that carrying out ethnic cleansing, and sabotage is a completely justified form of protest to try and slow down a fascist government carrying out their white supremacist  policies.

[Raja]

3 minutes ago, Triskele said:

Sure, and it doesn't say it's some garbage poll in the least.  

If you think it's a good poll, good on you. I don't think it is for the reasons DMC highlighted.

[Ormond]

20 minutes ago, Zorral said:

People have been commenting this is how he operates for decades already.

Absolutely. One of the main reasons I think one can validly label Trump as an extreme narcissist is because there is so much data about it extending over almost his entire lifetime.