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Corvo the Crow

Population of the Rhoynar and the Dorne a Thousand Years Ago

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Posted (edited)

I am on phone so I will be doing this in parts.

 

Pt. I Demographics

A long time ago I have found, through Wildlings and Dothraki, that roughly 40 percent of the population is males of fighting age.

I’ll quotes on this later.

 

Pt. II Rhoyne

After the destruction of Sarhoy, other cities gathered under Garin for war, even Nymeria’s Ny Sar.

Quote

The utter destruction of one of the richest and most beautiful of the cities of the Rhoyne, and the enslavement of her people, shocked and dismayed the remaining Rhoynar princes. "We shall all be slaves unless we join together to end this threat," declared the greatest of them, Garin of Chroyane. This warrior prince called upon his fellows to join with him in a great alliance, to wash away every Valyrian city on the river.

Only Princess Nymeria of Ny Sar spoke against him. "This is a war we cannot hope to win," she warned, but the other princes shouted her down and pledged their swords to Garin. Even the warriors of her own Ny Sar were eager to fight, and Nymeria had no choice but to join the great alliance.

 

Garin gathered (almost) all the men of fighting age, accounting to ~250.000 men

 

Quote

The largest army that Essos had ever seen soon assembled at Chroyane, under the command of Prince Garin. According to Beldecar, it was a quarter of a million strong. From the headwaters of the Rhoyne down to her many mouths, every man of fighting age took up sword and shield and made his way to the festival city to join this great campaign

 

This gives us  250.000 x 100/40 = 625.000 for the population of the cities, Sarhoy not included.

Bear in mind that neither the %40 nor the 250.000 are exact numbers and even if they were, there are still some men of fighting age left behind.

But since we aren’t told “near three hundred thousand” or “over two hundred thousand” but instead “ a quarter of a million”, the actual number would be close to this, even when the men left behind is included.

 

Pt. III Nymeria’s Fleet

Nymeria receives word soon after the defeat and takes any watercraft that can be found, cramming them with women and children, because almost all the men of fighting age were gone and dead.

Quote

Higher on the Rhoyne, in Ny Sar, Princess Nymeria soon received the news of Garin's shattering defeat and the enslavement of the people of Chroyane and Sar Mell. The same fate awaited her own city, she saw. Accordingly, she gathered every ship that remained upon the Rhoyne, large or small, and filled them full of as many women and children as they could carry (for almost all the men of fighting age had marched with Garin, and died). Down the river Nymeria led this ragged fleet, past ruined and smoking towns and fields of the dead, through waters choked with bloated, floating corpses. To avoid Volantis and its hosts, she chose the older channel and emerged into the Summer Sea where once Sarhoy had stood.

 

 

It is said she had 10.000 ships but we are told that is an exaggaration and of the ships only 1 in 10 were seaworthy. And they lose 100 ships just in the first storm.

Quote

Legend tells us that Nymeria took ten thousand ships to sea, searching for a new home for her people beyond the long reach of Valyria and its dragonlords. Beldecar argues that this number was vastly inflated, perhaps as much as tenfold. Other chroniclers offer other numbers, but in truth no true count was ever made. We can safely say there were a great many ships. Most were river craft, skiffs and poleboats, trading galleys, fishing boats, pleasure barges, even rafts, their decks and holds crammed full of women and children and old men. Only one in ten was remotely seaworthy, Beldecar insists.

Nymeria's voyage was long and terrible. More than a hundred ships foundered and sank in the first storm her fleet encountered. As many or more turned back in fear, and were taken by slavers out of Volantis. Others fell behind or drifted away, never to be seen again.

 

For comparison, Iron Island is called the land of ten thousand kings but they have just around 400 captains in all, quotes on this will be added later.

Edited by Corvo the Crow

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No, able bodied fighting men do not constitute 40% of the population in a civilized land. More like 1-2%.

Basic math tells you that 50% of the population are women. Of the men, maybe half will be too old or too young to fight. Can’t have a society without children, after all.

That leaves maybe 25% of the population of fighting AGE. But not everyone of the right age will be able bodied. So maybe 20% of the population are able bodied men of fighting age.

Then it becomes a question of economics and practicality. What portion of that able bodied 20% can you actually mobilize into an army? The Dothraki and wildlings raise pretty much all of them - and the cripples and sick ones too, it seems.

In Westeros, it is maybe 1% of the population. I’d imagine in Rhoynar, given their wealth, the logistical advantage of being located all along a vast navigable river, and the great urgency pushed it significantly higher than 1%. Maybe as high as 10% of the population. But certainly not a ridiculous number like 40%.

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In year 1500 "Finland" had estimated population of 300.000 people. About those 280 were cavalrymen and 2450 served in infantry. So during that time in here less than 1% of population were soldiers and only 1 per mille was cavalryman.

So I assume that bc lord Karstark came to Winterfell with as many soldiers that were available in "Finland" 1500 total population of lands ruled by house Karstark is higher than 300.000. And it seems that he even had some more men in reserve. Population of lands belonging to house Bolton is almost certainly higher possibly over 500 k.

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On 7/12/2019 at 9:20 AM, Free Northman Reborn said:

No, able bodied fighting men do not constitute 40% of the population in a civilized land. More like 1-2%.

Basic math tells you that 50% of the population are women. Of the men, maybe half will be too old or too young to fight. Can’t have a society without children, after all.

That leaves maybe 25% of the population of fighting AGE. But not everyone of the right age will be able bodied. So maybe 20% of the population are able bodied men of fighting age.

Then it becomes a question of economics and practicality. What portion of that able bodied 20% can you actually mobilize into an army? The Dothraki and wildlings raise pretty much all of them - and the cripples and sick ones too, it seems.

In Westeros, it is maybe 1% of the population. I’d imagine in Rhoynar, given their wealth, the logistical advantage of being located all along a vast navigable river, and the great urgency pushed it significantly higher than 1%. Maybe as high as 10% of the population. But certainly not a ridiculous number like 40%.

100.000 in Drogo’s khalasar. 40.000 warriors. Simple math.

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