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Angel Eyes

Why is Sam Grand Maester?

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Posted (edited)

In Season 7, he leaves the Citadel grousing about Maesters and their uselessness as an institution. And yet, he's been upgraded to Grand Maester. Why would they take him back after he stole from them and denounced them? What's worse, his mother and sister are left all alone and Gilly is pregnant with his child, alone with Little Sam. What's stopping someone (or a whole group of someones) from taking advantage of Gilly like they tried back in Season 5 before Ghost showed up (and this time Ghost wouldn't be there to help her)? Why would Sam leave the love of his life, a boy he loves like a son, and his unborn child to the dogs? 

Edited by Angel Eyes

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D&D have no idea that Grand Maester is a celibate position that’s elected by other Maesters.

Just like they have no idea that Naath is full of deadly butterfly toxins.

Or that Dothraki bloodriders are supposed to avenge their Khal and then kill themselves.

Or that the Hightower’s and Redwyn’s exist, and would declare war over a drunk sellsword being put in charge of them. 

D&D mentally checked out years ago, and paid no mind to lore/logic as they raced to the Star Wars themed finish line.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/11/2019 at 11:21 PM, Angel Eyes said:

In Season 7, he leaves the Citadel grousing about Maesters and their uselessness as an institution. And yet, he's been upgraded to Grand Maester. Why would they take him back after he stole from them and denounced them? What's worse, his mother and sister are left all alone and Gilly is pregnant with his child, alone with Little Sam. What's stopping someone (or a whole group of someones) from taking advantage of Gilly like they tried back in Season 5 before Ghost showed up (and this time Ghost wouldn't be there to help her)? Why would Sam leave the love of his life, a boy he loves like a son, and his unborn child to the dogs? 

Maybe they changed the rules, and now anything goes! Assuming Bronn solidified his authority in the Reach, he could simply make the Maesters elect Sam at sword point, and Sam is going to continue his relationship with Gilly while allowing Craster's son (officially his son) to be the next lord of Horn Hill (under his protection) because Tyrion would sign the paperwork to make it happen and Liege Bronn doesn't care.

 

Edited by Br16

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Posted (edited)
On 7/12/2019 at 8:42 AM, King Wyman said:

Or that the Hightower’s and Redwyn’s exist, and would declare war over a drunk sellsword being put in charge of them. 

Fighting is "not their forte" remember? Hightowers and Redwyns were probably even more decadent. 

On 7/12/2019 at 8:42 AM, King Wyman said:

Or that Dothraki bloodriders are supposed to avenge their Khal and then kill themselves.

 

Dothraki follow strength, No Drogon around = only three blood rider rule retroactively reinstated. So everybody good. 

 

Edited by Br16

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9 hours ago, Br16 said:

Fighting is "not their forte" remember? Hightowers and Redwyns were probably even more decadent. 

Dothraki follow strength, No Drogon around = only three blood rider rule retroactively reinstated. So everybody good. 

 

Paxtor Redwyn is a great naval commander who’s massive fleet is untouched in the show, and the Hightower’s are the richest house in the 7 Kingdoms with one of the biggest army’s. 

Ignore Olenna saying that. That was another D&D don’t know the lore moment, as they tried to explain how High Garden could fall in an hour with no siege. 

Also the Dothraki left Drogo cuz he was too weak to ride a horse BEFORE he died.

Dany was murdered at her peak. They would have gone on a rampage seeking vengeance, not happily wait around for due process to take effect, and then walk right by her murderer totally cool on their way out. She named them all her bloodriders. 

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On 7/13/2019 at 6:46 AM, Br16 said:

Fighting is "not their forte" remember? Hightowers and Redwyns were probably even more decadent. 

Even though these families aren't shown as great military powers in the show, they're still very old and very proud. Even if neither of them have any desire to become Lord Paramount of the Reach, giving the position to some random sellsword with no background who only rose to prominence because he was useful for the Lannister brothers - two men widely hated throughout the realm - would probably infuriate them. And every House in the realm should be terrified of Bronn, since he's also the financial administrator for the entire realm - a man who confessed a few seasons ago that he didn't even understand the principle of borrowing money.

Back to the topic at hand, Sam becoming Grand Maester is also ridiculous. Did he somehow forge every single link required to become a full-fledged maester, and also earn the respect of every other maester enough to be elected by the Conclave that quickly?

It seems like overall D&D just wanted to put all the people who were formerly outcasts or underdogs, people with no power, into the highest positions of power, in some kind of attempt at seeming optimistic, but it all falls flat. Bran, Tyrion, Sam, Bronn, Davos, and Brienne were looked down by the traditional nobility for one reason or another, so replacing the nobility with the outcasts is supposed to be an "AWESOME!" moment when actually it's a "Wait, what?" moment.

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It's basically any Fantasy works' biggest cliche. The underdogs, the misfits, saving the world and simultaneously maturing into the next leaders. 

Broken boy into powerful wizard, despised would be knight woman into Lord Commander, ruthless sellsword with a good heart deep down into powerful Lord...

But it has just popped into existence, rather than with a believable story. Feels off, feels forced.

 

 

Sam didn't need to be Grand Maester to be part of that new Council. Bron getting Highgarden is likely the one I'm most amused about. For sure, Lanisters always pay their debts. Tyrion promised him Highgarden. He shall have it.

I just never realized everyone put Tyrion in charge and are happy to swear fealty to a sellsword to please him !

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Sam becoming Grand Maester is just another example of very bad writing.  I can think of only one possible explanation - the new God-King Bran declared that Sam shall be excepted from the normal rules of the Citadel and be made Grand Maester (with a possible further exception that he also be allowed to marry).  So, the wise King Bran basically kicks off his rule with a giant act of nepotism to get one of his friends on the council in the role he wants in defiance of the rules of one of Westeros' oldest and most significant institutions - yeah, sounds like King Bran is destined for greatness.  Oh wait - maybe King Bran is just "breaking the wheel" in his own way - ok, got it, D&D, I better stop asking questions.  

I don't see any way in which GRRM would finish Sam's story in such an incoherent and nonsensical way.  

 

 

 

Edited by Lord Stackspear
Typo

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You all forget that nepotism is the name of the game in life along with power and money.  That was exactly what drove the Lannisters as well as the Starks.

Jon goes with the wildings to create a new world beyond the wall.

Sansa is the Queen of the North.

Bran the Broken rules the Six Kingdoms with the support of Sam (Jon's best friend), the Imp, Ser Davos, Ser Brianne, and Ser Bronn.

Arya will kill anyone in Highgarden or Dorne as instructed by her siblings.

Life is messy and not always consistent, and neither is the ending of the series.

 

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On 7/15/2019 at 2:00 PM, JakeStarkey said:

You all forget that nepotism is the name of the game in life along with power and money.  That was exactly what drove the Lannisters as well as the Starks.

Jon goes with the wildings to create a new world beyond the wall.

Sansa is the Queen of the North.

Bran the Broken rules the Six Kingdoms with the support of Sam (Jon's best friend), the Imp, Ser Davos, Ser Brianne, and Ser Bronn.

Arya will kill anyone in Highgarden or Dorne as instructed by her siblings.

Life is messy and not always consistent, and neither is the ending of the series.

 

And nepotism caused the first few deaths in the series; Jeor Mormont would never have put the inexperienced and foolhardy Waymar Royce in command if Bronze Yohn didn’t throw a hissy-fit. Waymar then led his group into a trap, Will/Gared failed to warn the rest of Westeros, and we’re only saved by a knife flip.

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