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Football: Steve the Bruce King of Geordies


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Asensio's injury shouldn't have any effect on the loan deal for Ceballos though. The two don't play the same position and it's clear from Zidane's first stint that he doesn't rate Ceballos. If anything, Real might not be so eager to get rid of Bale just yet. 

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2 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

Does it effect Ceballos or something? Seems weird as they play completely different roles :dunno:

It may. It's not clear yet. I've seen speculation but no decisions.

As an aside, I was upset Asensio got hurt. I like watching him play.

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1 minute ago, Consigliere said:

Asensio's injury shouldn't have any effect on the loan deal for Ceballos though. The two don't play the same position and it's clear from Zidane's first stint that he doesn't rate Ceballos. If anything, Real might not be so eager to get rid of Bale just yet. 

A fully fit and firing bale on the right with hazard on the left would be scary. If Zidane doesn’t play Bale who will start on the right? Vasquez/Vinicius? Both massive downgrades 

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Just now, Mark Antony said:

A fully fit and firing bale on the right with hazard on the left would be scary. If Zidane doesn’t play Bale who will start on the right? Vasquez/Vinicius? Both massive downgrades 

Zidane will probably use Bale if he stays but I doubt he will be first choice. Zidane started to favour Vazquez over Bale on the right during his first stint. Vinicius and Rodrygo are options as well. I think he was planning on having Asensio as his first choice but the serious injury means that Asensio is likely out for the season. 

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3 hours ago, Consigliere said:

Nicolas Pepe for instance would have been great as the versatile forward that Liverpool have been looking for but apparently Lille want around €80m for him.

Last thing I heard was United was close to signing him.

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10 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Last thing I heard was United was close to signing him.

I'm not so sure about that. I think many clubs are being put off by the asking price + reportedly Pepe is demanding €6m/year net salary. Bayern were apparently close to signing him earlier in the window and reportedly so were Liverpool. 

 

Liverpool might step up their search for a fullback now as reports say that Clyne has suffered a cruciate ligament injury and will be out for 6 months. 

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Why would they?

I thought Clyne would be leaving anyway, as in, really too good to be a mere back up. So I don't think Clyne being injured is that big an influence on their transfer activity.

Yes, they should('ve) be(en) in the market for a fullback. But then again, I also thought they should've signed Haller. But also yes, with Liverpool this is more or less high class whining, with the Donkey manager, and Championship level forward Origi.

 

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The last I heard was that Liverpool were in no hurry to sell Clyne and that the player himself gave no indication of where he would prefer to play next season. I think there was an article in the Evening Standard not too long ago saying that Clyne had impressed Klopp in preseason - perhaps this is why Liverpool haven't been actively pursuing another fullback as Clyne is capable of covering both positions. 

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I think from Clyne's perspective, seeing as how this is the final year of his contract, he may have decided to remain at Liverpool and move on a free transfer thereby increasing his chances of getting a better contract elsewhere (as well as more game time). He'd be 29 by the end of the season and so would still be an attractive proposition for midtable EPL sides who can afford to give him a more lucrative contract than he'd receive abroad.

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I think Liverpool were trying to sell Clyne to Palace as a replacement for Wan-Bissaka.  But that’s dead now with an ACL tear.  He definitely wasn’t going to play for Liverpool this season so long as Gomez or Milner are available as back-up for TAA.  I’d say Hoever could even be ahead of Clyne before end of this season (even if Clyne were not injured).

Bottom line is that we still lack cover for FB and forwards, who are the source of almost all of our goals and assists.  Camacho forced an exit back to Portugal (he was a talented right winger who could play FB), Larouci and Lewis don’t look ready yet to back-up Robertson.  Milner is a great utility player but he creates a lot less from FB than Robertson or TAA; I think the difference is mainly speed for overlapping runs because Milner’s crossing is quite good.

The squad looks pretty thin at the moment, aside from CB and MF.  Keita and Shaqiri haven’t even started their preseason training yet either.  Lallana is injured again, as usual.  Origi is a hero as an impact sub but his actual general play still looks well short of the necessary quality.  Brewster does at least have that quality but he’s very inexperienced.

It seems like we have the same problem as Spurs a couple of years ago: the first XI is so strong and settled that it’s difficult to recruit high quality depth players (because the high quality are wary of a bench role), and the manager seems reluctant to pay top dollar for back-ups.

Perhaps it will all turn out fine but it lowers our odds of keeping pace with City’s bigger squad over the full season.  

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42 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

I think Liverpool were trying to sell Clyne to Palace as a replacement for Wan-Bissaka.  But that’s dead now with an ACL tear.  He definitely wasn’t going to play for Liverpool this season so long as Gomez or Milner are available as back-up for TAA.  I’d say Hoever could even be ahead of Clyne before end of this season (even if Clyne were not injured).

Bottom line is that we still lack cover for FB and forwards, who are the source of almost all of our goals and assists.  Camacho forced an exit back to Portugal (he was a talented right winger who could play FB), Larouci and Lewis don’t look ready yet to back-up Robertson.  Milner is a great utility player but he creates a lot less from FB than Robertson or TAA; I think the difference is mainly speed for overlapping runs because Milner’s crossing is quite good.

The squad looks pretty thin at the moment, aside from CB and MF.  Keita and Shaqiri haven’t even started their preseason training yet either.  Lallana is injured again, as usual.  Origi is a hero as an impact sub but his actual general play still looks well short of the necessary quality.  Brewster does at least have that quality but he’s very inexperienced.

It seems like we have the same problem as Spurs a couple of years ago: the first XI is so strong and settled that it’s difficult to recruit high quality depth players (because the high quality are wary of a bench role), and the manager seems reluctant to pay top dollar for back-ups.

Perhaps it will all turn out fine but it lowers our odds of keeping pace with City’s bigger squad over the full season.  

Now, this is a reasonable assessment.

Ofc there's always a drop off in quality from first choice to back up unless you are Man City, esp. if the first choice players are Robertson and Arnold on the FB, and the forwards line up is Mane-Firmino-Salah.

As for the forwards. You have Origi, who is despite some footballing limitations, a very reasonable back up. He has qualities, that are not quite the same as Firmino's, and he is a step down from him obviously. In addition, the LFC staff seems to think Brewster is ready to carry some more responsibility this year (barring some injury misfortune). So he is an in-house replacement for Sturridge. So the depth depends a bit on Brewster, and whether you trust the staff with their assessment.

For the wide positions (Salah Mane) you still have Shaqiri, and arguably Wilson. Altho, I don't think Wilson is quite ready, and is rather bound for another loan season somewhere.

In addition you have AOC back. Whether he will be healthy a full season, that is open for discussion.

Back up, yes. No argument there. Except, I think a healthy Clyne is still better than the kids.

So the impending doom over not spending 200m this window on the CL winning squad looks a bit too hysterical. The profile for potential new signings is very particular. Good enough to push for a first team spot (as in no drop off), but content to be a squad option - so they don't throw a tantrum when they only play like 15 games.

 

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I don't think back up fullback is a massive concern. Ideally, yes, we could probably do with a good quality left footed back up but they seem to have drawn the conclusion getting a ready made player is going to present problems in terms of either price or them not wanting to sit on the bench behind Robertson for most of the season. I don't think deciding to go with Milner/Gomez as your emergency stop gaps and trying to develop Hoever and Larouci into quality back ups is the end of the world. Hoever looks very talented, Larouci looks a bit more raw, he's apparently only recently converted to a fullback, but he seems at least to be pretty athletic. 

The front 3 is a bit more of a worry. They seem to really rate Brewster but with Shaqiri injured and Salah, Firmino and Mane all back very late we could be pretty reliant on Brewster both being as good as they think he will be and him hitting the ground running in a high pressure situation. It's a lot to ask of a young player.

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We haven't gotten rid of anyone. I have a feeling that Jones only got a contract extension because he's English and the brass want to pad the homegrown quota. It has been a very poor transfer window for us. We are woefully short in midfield as well - Matic looks finished and has ranged from average to dreadful. He simply does not have the mobility to play a pressing game like Solskjaer wants. While our preseason has been decent so far, every game has highlighted the need for midfield reinforcements as well as a CB. If Woodward et al. can't get deals over the line then it's going to be another poor season. 

 

Arsenal complete loan deal for Ceballos.

 

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Excited about Ceballos - by all accounts he's super talented and the right fit for what this afc side needs.

We *really* need a CB though, we could probably make do with not signing Tierney, but with Kos almost out of the door, I feel like not signing a CB this window would be a bit of a disaster.

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United’s threatened clear-out has definitely fallen flat.  Herrera left against their wishes so only Valencia’s retirement counts as removing deadwood.  Especially since Jones, Smalling, Young, etc all got contract extensions within the past year.  United’s transfer window has been underwhelming so far but I would expect them to make at least two good signings yet.  Maguire, Savic, Fernandes and even Pepe have been heavily linked in recent weeks.  Any two of those would improve them.

Ceballos is a great addition for Arsenal to help replace Ramsey, but it shows how far they have fallen that they will offer a loan with no option to purchase for a player who obviously does not intend to stay very long.  It does give them a niche short term opportunity with some quality players, but it sets them up for longer term struggles.

Would Ceballos replace Ozil and/or Mkhi in the starting XI, or would he play more like Cazorla alongside Torreira at the expense of Xhaka?

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Ceballos usually plays a deeper role in midfield so more Cazorla-like than Ramsey. His best position would be alongside Torreira.

 

re: United's threatened clear out. It's all well and good talking about getting rid of players but the major issue is that the club are paying deadwood far beyond what they are actually worth so no clubs are prepared to take on those wages and the players themselves have no reason to accept pay cuts. Our negotiating team has to be among the worst around. 

ETA. with Bailly's knee injury which looked bad, that might force Woodward's hand. Wouldn't be surprised if old Ed gets desperate and forks over 90 million for Maguire.

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48 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Ceballos usually plays a deeper role in midfield so more Cazorla-like than Ramsey. His best position would be alongside Torreira.

 

re: United's threatened clear out. It's all well and good talking about getting rid of players but the major issue is that the club are paying deadwood far beyond what they are actually worth so no clubs are prepared to take on those wages and the players themselves have no reason to accept pay cuts. Our negotiating team has to be among the worst around. 

ETA. with Bailly's knee injury which looked bad, that might force Woodward's hand. Wouldn't be surprised if old Ed gets desperate and forks over 90 million for Maguire.

Re: Ceballos: I did think he was more of a MF than an AMF, but Arsenal fans seem equally unhappy with Ozil, Mkhi and Xhaka, so he’s spoiled for choice.  On top of that, Ramsey’s departure is the biggest gap in their team right now, and it would make sense to view Ceballos as his replacement, but perhaps not quite like-for-like.  They definitely have missed Cazorla for a few years.

I agree that United’s wages make it very difficult to shift players.  And they just keep making it worse for themselves with contract extensions.  If they really wanted to clear deadwood then they would just take the hit of subsidizing wages for departing players.  But they don’t seem willing to do that.  They won’t even stop extending contracts at massive wages.  So really they’re hoping the manager will suddenly reinvigorate these players and remove the need to get rid of any of them.

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6 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Re: Ceballos: I did think he was more of a MF than an AMF, but Arsenal fans seem equally unhappy with Ozil, Mkhi and Xhaka, so he’s spoiled for choice.  On top of that, Ramsey’s departure is the biggest gap in their team right now, and it would make sense to view Ceballos as his replacement, but perhaps not quite like-for-like.  They definitely have missed Cazorla for a few years.

I agree that United’s wages make it very difficult to shift players.  And they just keep making it worse for themselves with contract extensions.  If they really wanted to clear deadwood then they would just take the hit of subsidizing wages for departing players.  But they don’t seem willing to do that.  They won’t even stop extending contracts at massive wages.  So really they’re hoping the manager will suddenly reinvigorate these players and remove the need to get rid of any of them.

In the Arsenal midfield the losses of Ramsey and Cazorla are really emblematic of the deficiencies we have - Ramsey as a legitimate goalscoring midfielder and Cazorla as a strong, consistent controller of the passing game (who also chipped in with some goals). It's maddening that now that we seem to have finally solved the decades-old defensive midfield problem (Torreira) the gaps are opening up again in other areas of midfield.

Re: United, I think much of the wages problem comes from having lost Ferguson. While he was managing, players would have taken pretty ordinary pay packages because they knew they would be winners, get to work with one of the great managers in the game (who was there with long-term certainty and wasn't going to be fired), and with his track record of managing star players they could well become a world footballing icon (Cantona, Giggs, Beckham, Ronaldo). Without Ferguson, United are just another big club that has to attract players with money.

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