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Brienne last chapter of AFFC


OmnomnomPomelo

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Probably it was discussed before and not only once, but at the end of last Brienne chapter in A Feast for Crows they wanted to hang Brienne & co., but then Brienne screamed a word.

I am re-reading the books from book 1 and found something in A Clash of Kings Catelyn chapter. Catelyn asked Brienne if she ever sang to her father or Renly to which Brienne answers she has no gift in singing. Tho Cat told her "Someday you must sing for me."

What do you think? Can it be that Brienne started to sing?

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GRRM is said to have confirmed, at some event or other, that the word was "sword".

"sword" refers to Stoneheart's demand that Brienne choose between the "sword" or the "noose".  The noose of course means Brienne gets hanged.  "Sword" represents a promise to "take the sword and slay the kingslayer".

Curiously, Brienne had already sworn to take the sword and kill the kingslayer.  She even emphasizes to Catelyn that she swore it "three times".  This originally referred to her oath to take King Renly's sword, and slay King Renly's slayer (Stannis).

But she lost King Renly's sword, and was given a new sword to replace it, called "Oathkeeper".

As GRRM once emphasized in an interview, Fire Wights like UnBeric and Uncat lose their humanity, and are driven by their oaths.  That's the setup here … for a twisted zombie with a twisted zombie mission, and lots of potential kingslayers to slay, including Sansa.

Ser Bonifer tells Jaime that a revenant cannot harm a man who arms himself in his Faith.  Jaime scoffs at "Baelor Butthole".  Next, Jaime goes to see Lancel, who tells him they are both sinners and invites Jaime to join him in repentance.  Jaime scoffs, and says he has no use for the Seven unless they give him a new hand.

Next, a revenant of the hanged Brienne appears at midnight, fingering "Oathkeeper", and using a pack of lies to lure Jaime off into the woods alone.  Supposedly for a day's ride.  And now Jaime has been missing for weeks or months.

When Jaime returns, he too will be a revenant.

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7 minutes ago, OmnomnomPomelo said:

Hmm, haven't heard about this GRRM confirmation yet, then it seems to be settled.

Yeah.  It's settled that the word was "sword".  Everything else I said is likely to be vigorously contested by others here.

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still, the 'sing for me' can be seen as a nice piece of foreshadowing. also her spouting nonsense to Jaime that she needs his help to rescue sansa, when she is taking him to LS, is singing LS's tune.

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14 hours ago, OmnomnomPomelo said:

Hmm, haven't heard about this GRRM confirmation yet, then it seems to be settled.

People asked it during a con of him, he said she said "sword", evidently since she's alive to lure Jaime a book later. And she chose sword to save Podrick.

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3 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

People asked it during a con of him, he said she said "sword", evidently since she's alive to lure Jaime a book later.

Well, that's not how he put it.   He confirmed that she said "sword", not that she's alive a book later.

3 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

And she chose sword to save Podrick.

Well, it was already evident from the text that she was trying to save Podrick.  But yeah, he confirmed that too.  It does not necessarily follow that she succeeded in saving Podrick … or herself.

 

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4 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

People asked it during a con of him, he said she said "sword", evidently since she's alive to lure Jaime a book later. And she chose sword to save Podrick.

Yup and I can’t tell you how relieved I was to read what GRRM said there. I mean, readers had a good idea what was going to happen because the story set it up so well, but the word of Martin is always an added bonus.That answer from GRRM is a good bit of something to look forward to in the last two books; Brienne finishing her travels and character development. I’m glad GRRM hasn’t let her die too soon in the story. 

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1 hour ago, Platypus Rex said:

Well, that's not how he put it.   He confirmed that she said "sword", not that she's alive a book later.

 

I did not say that he confirmed she's alive a book later. But "evidently" she IS alive a book later (in aDwD) when she appears in Jaime's chapter=; ",evidentlty since ..." is my personal commentary, which I'm allowed to write, and a comma should make that clear. 

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8 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

I did not say that he confirmed she's alive a book later. But "evidently" she IS alive a book later (in aDwD) when she appears in Jaime's chapter=; ",evidentlty since ..." is my personal commentary, which I'm allowed to write, and a comma should make that clear. 

No problem.  Just clarifying what is confirmed, and not confirmed, just as I did to my own earlier post, a couple posts back.

I don't agree it is "evident" (at least not to the reader, who is aware of the alternative) that she is alive, unless your definition of "alive" is broad enough to include creatures like Stoneheart and Beric.

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3 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

No problem.  Just clarifying what is confirmed, and not confirmed, just as I did to my own earlier post, a couple posts back.

I don't agree it is "evident" (at least not to the reader, who is aware of the alternative) that she is alive, unless your definition of "alive" is broad enough to include creatures like Stoneheart and Beric.

Running and breathing and talking and remembering and evoking the sense in Jaime that she's still Brienne: I personally mean "alive alive".  Whether you agree or not with that is your issue. 

She said "sword", confimed by George, so she wasn't hanged. She didn't die from hanging, or that would have left bruises around her neck. Her cheek was mangled but healed. She showed up alive where Jaime was. And he followed. Brienne is alive. 

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3 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

No problem.  Just clarifying what is confirmed, and not confirmed, just as I did to my own earlier post, a couple posts back.

I don't agree it is "evident" (at least not to the reader, who is aware of the alternative) that she is alive, unless your definition of "alive" is broad enough to include creatures like Stoneheart and Beric.

Pretty sure we'd have been given a clue if she had actually been hanged to death in AFFC. We literally are described his noose scar at one point (Hollow Hill? the hound trial by combat?). Nothing similar shows up in ADWD

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10 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

She said "sword", confimed by George, so she wasn't hanged.

She was definitely hanged.  The question is whether she was cut down while still alive or cut down after she was dead.

Stoneheart's order was not conditional.  I don't think Lem would have cut her down no matter what she screamed, and Stoneheart was not, as far as we know, in the area to countermand the order she gave.

Still, your argument is not a complete non-sequitur.  Her screaming "a word" must serve some literary purpose.  Her being cut down alive because of that word is the literary purpose that occurs to most people.

However, I have already proposed an alternative literary purpose: a dying oath that cements and defines her twisted undead mission.

Quote

She didn't die from hanging, or that would have left bruises around her neck. Her cheek was mangled but healed. 

This assumes facts not in evidence.  We saw her for half a page, and she was not described in detail.  Jaime is aware that she has been injured.  But the injury is not described.  

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8 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

This assumes facts not in evidence.  We saw her for half a page, and she was not described in detail.  Jaime is aware that she has been injured.  But the injury is not described. 

The location definitely is. It would be the first time in my life I've heard of anyone referring to a possible hanging (or neck) injury in the form of “And what’s happened to her face?” It's not like we don't know the exact thing that happened to her face (Biter ... biting it) and how they treated it (boiling wine and cutting out the bad tissue) and what the expectation of its long term appearance would be (Scars? No he chewed up half your cheek).

 

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When it comes to hanging from branches like that, it takes hours for someone to choke to death. It's different from a gallows where the fall breaks the neck. Most pirates were hanged the way BwB hang people, and people usually had to cling to their legs to pull them down in order to help them die quicker (was done by witnesses out of mercy). We're not talking minutes here, but over an hour before someone died in this way. So, I am quite certain that Brienne calling "sword" gave everybody there enough time to take her down again, and Podrick and Hyle. Brienne would have had some bruising of course, but BEING ALIVE, those bruises heal. 

LS still has her part to play and I don't see her giving up her last undead-life to Brienne. 

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8 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

The location definitely is. It would be the first time in my life I've heard of anyone referring to a possible hanging (or neck) injury in the form of “And what’s happened to her face?” It's not like we don't know the exact thing that happened to her face (Biter ... biting it) and how they treated it (boiling wine and cutting out the bad tissue) and what the expectation of its long term appearance would be (Scars? No he chewed up half your cheek).

I assume the quoted words refer to the wound on her face, which I would imagine he cannot fully see due to the "bandage", which he also mentions.  (And there is nothing indicating the wound has "healed", as I just saw assumed)

The question is:  why are you assuming he can clearly see her neck?

It is midnight.  There WAS a half moon in the sky, by midnight it is likely no longer visible.  There is only the light of the stars and the nearby campfires.  It is winter, and her garb is not described.

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9 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Not that I'm a hangman, but I would, uh, read up on hanging and its effects before I harangue people incorrectly about someone's "manner of death."

My "research" suggests that the vast vast majority of people who are hanged do end up dying.  Not because death is necessarily instant.  It has more to do with the fact that if the people who string you up had any intention of cutting you down, they would never have strung you up in the first place.

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51 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

So, I am quite certain that Brienne calling "sword" gave everybody there enough time to take her down again, and Podrick and Hyle. 

Yes, there was plenty of time.  

However, there was no inclination.  Lem does not care. Lem would not have cut her down no matter what she screamed.

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