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Heresy 225 and the Snowflakes of Doom

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3 hours ago, LynnS said:

On to Dance with Dragons reread now.  It seems that one must be born amidst salt and smoke but reborn of blood and fire.

 

I'm wondering if Illyrio meant that Daenerys sacrificed herself in the funeral pyre? It was her blood that she sacrificed to the flames and that she is actually a resurrected creature? She didn't actually turn into a dragon though, which is what previous Targaryen's believed would happen to them.

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3 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

I'm wondering if Illyrio meant that Daenerys sacrificed herself in the funeral pyre? It was her blood that she sacrificed to the flames and that she is actually a resurrected creature? She didn't actually turn into a dragon though, which is what previous Targaryen's believed would happen to them.

Yes, I think that's about it.  Along with waking the dragon beforehand and being spiritually cleansed in dragonfire.  Not sure about the blood though; that could be what happened with MMD; two kings to wake a dragon (Drogo/Rheagal), at least according to Aemon.  

As far as turning into a dragon; my crackpot says when she dies, she will secondlife in Drogon.  I think ultimately, she will be the analog of Nissa Nissa (bride of fire) and the beast that AA slays to quicken his sword.

I think she is a resurrected creature having died in childbirth and the reason why MMD says she will not have any more children.  She isn't entirely human anymore.

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6 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Yes, I think that's about it.  Along with waking the dragon beforehand and being spiritually cleansed in dragonfire.  Not sure about the blood though; that could be what happened with MMD; two kings to wake a dragon (Drogo/Rheagal), at least according to Aemon.  

As far as turning into a dragon; my crackpot says when she dies, she will secondlife in Drogon.  I think ultimately, she will be the analog of Nissa Nissa (bride of fire) and the beast that AA slays to quicken his sword.

I think she is a resurrected creature having died in childbirth and the reason why MMD says she will not have any more children.  She isn't entirely human anymore.

And when Lyanna died in childbirth and two kings (of Winter) got sacrificed, first Rickard then Brandon, she was resurrected as the Great Other?

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9 minutes ago, alienarea said:

And when Lyanna died in childbirth and two kings (of Winter) got sacrificed, first Rickard then Brandon, she was resurrected as the Great Other?

Is that sarcasm?  We know nothing about Lyanna, but we know a good deal more about Dany.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Yes, I think that's about it.  Along with waking the dragon beforehand and being spiritually cleansed in dragonfire.  Not sure about the blood though; that could be what happened with MMD; two kings to wake a dragon (Drogo/Rheagal), at least according to Aemon.  

As far as turning into a dragon; my crackpot says when she dies, she will secondlife in Drogon.  I think ultimately, she will be the analog of Nissa Nissa (bride of fire) and the beast that AA slays to quicken his sword.

I think she is a resurrected creature having died in childbirth and the reason why MMD says she will not have any more children.  She isn't entirely human anymore.

I am on board with your words with the exception of that last sentence. I think she actually is now fertile again. The proof is the return of her menses at the end of Dance. Mirri's prophecy is actually coming to pass:

1) The part about the sun rising in the west and setting in the east is a reference to the wheel of time reversing and historical events occurring to "mirrored areas". What happened in the past to an area in the west will now occur in the east. 

2) The mountain blowing away in the wind is the Wall. It is literally blowing away in the form of a blizzard.

3) Once it's cold enough the sea will become "dry". The Narrow Sea will freeze over and people will be able to walk across. 

Edited by Feather Crystal

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21 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Is that sarcasm?  We know nothing about Lyanna, but we know a good deal more about Dany.

Not intended as sarcasm.

I don't spend a lot of time analyzing or rereading the books anymore, but I'm thinking a lot about a hidden Stark-Targaryen connection.

Like Lucifer (Lightbringer!) was an angel before he became the devil.

At times I'm quite frustrated with the wasted potential of the story

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1 minute ago, alienarea said:

Not intended as sarcasm.

I don't spend a lot of time analyzing or rereading the books anymore, but I'm thinking a lot about a hidden Stark-Targaryen connection.

Like Lucifer (Lightbringer!) was an angel before he became the devil.

At times I'm quite frustrated with the wasted potential of the story

Ok. I understand.  We are not really given very much about the ice side of things or how the Starks fit in.  I have no idea really where that's going.  I find that really frustrating.  I doubt Lyanna is any kind of mirror to Dany.  Bran maybe.  I'm not even sure that Dany is AAR but rather the PWIP.

I say this because we are told two things:

- AA successfully forged his sword in the heart of his beloved: and

- AA slew a beast and Lightbringer was forever warm to the touch afterwards.

To me it sounds like AA is godlike in this first version. He  plunges his sword into his beloved, a bride of fire to make the red sword. This is contradicted by the story that he slew a beast and ended up with the red sword.  Less godlike in this version but probably closer to the truth.   I think the beast is a dragon.  So then how could it also be his beloved gods-wife? 

I won't pull up all the quotes but Dany dreams of wearing Rhaegar's black armor, then she dreams that she is the black dragon.  Does this seem close to what occurs during a direwolf dream?  If you become a dragon, your skin is like stone or armor.  It seems possible to me that Dany could have a second life in a dragon.  The one she is closest to and has he strongest bond.

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1 hour ago, LynnS said:

Ok. I understand.  We are not really given very much about the ice side of things or how the Starks fit in.  I have no idea really where that's going.  I find that really frustrating.  I doubt Lyanna is any kind of mirror to Dany.  Bran maybe.  I'm not even sure that Dany is AAR but rather the PWIP.

I say this because we are told two things:

- AA successfully forged his sword in the heart of his beloved: and

- AA slew a beast and Lightbringer was forever warm to the touch afterwards.

To me it sounds like AA is godlike in this first version. He  plunges his sword into his beloved, a bride of fire to make the red sword. This is contradicted by the story that he slew a beast and ended up with the red sword.  Less godlike in this version but probably closer to the truth.   I think the beast is a dragon.  So then how could it also be his beloved gods-wife? 

I won't pull up all the quotes but Dany dreams of wearing Rhaegar's black armor, then she dreams that she is the black dragon.  Does this seem close to what occurs during a direwolf dream?  If you become a dragon, your skin is like stone or armor.  It seems possible to me that Dany could have a second life in a dragon.  The one she is closest to and has he strongest bond.

I think we might be able to draw some conclusions by examining origin stories, and for some reason I associate the origin story of the Faceless Men as being connected to the destruction of the dragonlords of Valyria.

IMO Daenerys is reliving historic events that once occurred to the dragonlords, but since the wheel of time is undoing history, she is conflicted. She has a decision to make between two fates - there's a fork in the road, so to speak. Which one will she take?:

Fork 1) Remember who she is. 

    Who is she? She's the blood of the dragon - in other words, she's a dragonlord. What will she do when she realizes it? Will she use her dragons-fire-and-blood to enforce her authority in Meereen? She has many enemies who are slaves to tradition: the cities that make their living from the slave trade, the mysterious Sons of the Harpy who oppose her rule and kill her Unsullied one by one, and the new threat in the area: Victarian and the Iron Fleet. This is the harder choice of the two and chooses duty over love.

Fork 2) Follow her desires.

    What does she desire? She wants Daario. She wants revenge for her family. Robert took the Iron Throne from her father by conquest and she's had to live most of her short years running for her life. She loves riding her Silver in the great Dothraki Sea. She hopes to prevent anyone from forcefully taking her to Vaes Dothrak to live with the crones in the dosh khaleen. She wants to rule all the Dothraki with Daario by her side, but she also wants to change the Dothraki culture by eliminating raping, pillaging, and slave-selling. This is a fool-hardy choice dictated by emotion.

Whatever path she chooses, she will experience an opposite outcome than the past.

Fork #1 repeats the path of the dragonlords who were destroyed by their slaves. I suspect whatever the first Faceless Man did led to the Doom. Daenerys on the other hand frees slaves, but she will still have to defeat people who are slaves to their past. Should she choose this path, she will remain in Essos even though the Narrow Sea will "dry up" and freeze over, making it possible for her to cross with her Dothraki horde and Unsullied soldiers.

Fork #2 repeats the path of Aegon the Conqueror. Aegon and his sisters were successful in conquering Westeros, but if Daenerys were to choose this path, the current undoing of history dictates that she would fail! The Greyjoys have usurped this path, but even if they succeed in stealing a dragon or two they will also fail, because their actions have paralleled the Blackfyres.

Circling back to your comments - if anyone is repeating Azor Ahai, they too will end up doing the reverse. History is being undone. Azor Ahai forged three swords and ultimately killed his wife to create his flaming Lightbringer, and he's said to have killed some great beast with it. What are some possible reversals with regards to Azor Ahai reborn? He either won't kill his wife or doesn't even have one, or he already has the sword, but the beast devours him before he can wield it. 

I had a strange thought. Have we discussed before if Lightbringer was actually a magical dragonhorn rather than a literal sword? If this is a possibility, then Victarion might be Azor Ahai reborn. He'll try to use the dragonhorn and end up being devoured by one of the dragons. 

 

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3 hours ago, LynnS said:

Ok. I understand.  We are not really given very much about the ice side of things or how the Starks fit in.  I have no idea really where that's going.  I find that really frustrating.  I doubt Lyanna is any kind of mirror to Dany.  Bran maybe.  I'm not even sure that Dany is AAR but rather the PWIP.

I say this because we are told two things:

- AA successfully forged his sword in the heart of his beloved: and

- AA slew a beast and Lightbringer was forever warm to the touch afterwards.

To me it sounds like AA is godlike in this first version. He  plunges his sword into his beloved, a bride of fire to make the red sword. This is contradicted by the story that he slew a beast and ended up with the red sword.  Less godlike in this version but probably closer to the truth.   I think the beast is a dragon.  So then how could it also be his beloved gods-wife? 

I won't pull up all the quotes but Dany dreams of wearing Rhaegar's black armor, then she dreams that she is the black dragon.  Does this seem close to what occurs during a direwolf dream?  If you become a dragon, your skin is like stone or armor.  It seems possible to me that Dany could have a second life in a dragon.  The one she is closest to and has he strongest bond.

I'm thinking a lot about the wolf and the man in flames in the tent. The man in flames being Targaryen, the wolf being Stark. I get a vibe of eternal enemies, like Odin and Fenrir (wolf) or Thor and the Midgard-snake (dragon). 

I like the idea of Daenerys being reborn as a dragon or having a second life as a dragon.

For symmetry, Bran should have picked Ghost or Jon should have become the three-eyed raven. 

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47 minutes ago, alienarea said:

I'm thinking a lot about the wolf and the man in flames in the tent. The man in flames being Targaryen, the wolf being Stark. I get a vibe of eternal enemies, like Odin and Fenrir (wolf) or Thor and the Midgard-snake (dragon). 

I like the idea of Daenerys being reborn as a dragon or having a second life as a dragon.

For symmetry, Bran should have picked Ghost or Jon should have become the three-eyed raven. 

YAH! For sure. I've been thinking about that as well.  What I noticed is that Dany can see a man limned in flame, but the identity of the Great Wolf is hidden from her.  The same think happened with Mel when she sees Bran with a wolf's head.  His identity is hidden from Mel.   The old powers as MMD refers to them.  I think it's the Great Wolf and the Great Dragon that Dany sees in the tent.  I think that fits with the Norse mythology as well.

Bran and Dany have similar experiences.   For example:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

"The trees will teach him," said Leaf. She beckoned, and another of the singers padded forward, the white-haired one that Meera had named Snowylocks. She had a weirwood bowl in her hands, carved with a dozen faces, like the ones the heart trees wore. Inside was a white paste, thick and heavy, with dark red veins running through it. "You must eat of this," said Leaf. She handed Bran a wooden spoon.

The boy looked at the bowl uncertainly. "What is it?"

"A paste of weirwood seeds."

Something about the look of it made Bran feel ill. The red veins were only weirwood sap, he supposed, but in the torchlight they looked remarkably like blood. He dipped the spoon into the paste, then hesitated. "Will this make me a greenseer?"

"Your blood makes you a greenseer," said Lord Brynden. "This will help awaken your gifts and wed you to the trees." 

Bran did want to be married to a tree … but who else would wed a broken boy like him? A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. A greenseer.

He ate.

It had a bitter taste, though not so bitter as acorn paste. The first spoonful was the hardest to get down. He almost retched it right back up. The second tasted better. The third was almost sweet. The rest he spooned up eagerly. Why had he thought that it was bitter? It tasted of honey, of new-fallen snow, of pepper and cinnamon and the last kiss his mother ever gave him. The empty bowl slipped from his fingers and clattered on the cavern floor. "I don't feel any different. What happens next?"

So like Dany, his gifts must be awakened as well.  Both Bran and Dany pass through a gate of sorts.  Bran through the Black Gate and Dany through a similar gate at the House of Undying.  

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

"Will it turn my lips blue?"

"One flute will serve only to unstop your ears and dissolve the caul from off your eyes, so that you may hear and see the truths that will be laid before you."

Dany raised the glass to her lips. The first sip tasted like ink and spoiled meat, foul, but when she swallowed it seemed to come to life within her. She could feel tendrils spreading through her chest, like fingers of fire coiling around her heart, and on her tongue was a taste like honey and anise and cream, like mother's milk and Drogo's seed, like red meat and hot blood and molten gold. It was all the tastes she had ever known, and none of them . . . and then the glass was empty.

The difference between Dany and Bran is that she is mobile, while he is not.  So he needs an agent to act where he cannot.  Jon is likely to fill that role and as I've said before, he is and was the three-eyed crow.

Both Dany and Bran have to travel into their respective hearts of darkness, fire and ice. 

Arya's role is a lot harder to determine, in the scheme of things, if she will also act as an agent, for Bran the greenseer.

They are all apprentices of a sort: apprentice greenseer, apprentice faceless man and apprentice lord commander.

Dany is on her own quest for truth, knowledge and wisdom. 

Quote

A Feast for Crows - Samwell IV

That had been one of his last good days. After that the old man spent more time sleeping than awake, curled up beneath a pile of furs in the captain's cabin. Sometimes he would mutter in his sleep. When he woke he'd call for Sam, insisting that he had to tell him something, but oft as not he would have forgotten what he meant to say by the time that Sam arrived. Even when he did recall, his talk was all a jumble. He spoke of dreams and never named the dreamer, of a glass candle that could not be lit and eggs that would not hatch. He said the sphinx was the riddle, not the riddler, whatever that meant. He asked Sam to read for him from a book by Septon Barth, whose writings had been burned during the reign of Baelor the Blessed. Once he woke up weeping. "The dragon must have three heads," he wailed, "but I am too old and frail to be one of them. I should be with her, showing her the way, but my body has betrayed me."

Quote

A Feast for Crows - Samwell IV

"No," the old man said. "It must be you. Tell them. The prophecy . . . my brother's dream . . . Lady Melisandre has misread the signs. Stannis . . . Stannis has some of the dragon blood in him, yes. His brothers did as well. Rhaelle, Egg's little girl, she was how they came by it . . . their father's mother . . . she used to call me Uncle Maester when she was a little girl. I remembered that, so I allowed myself to hope . . . perhaps I wanted to . . . we all deceive ourselves, when we want to believe. Melisandre most of all, I think. The sword is wrong, she has to know that . . . light without heat . . . an empty glamor . . . the sword is wrong, and the false light can only lead us deeper into darkness, Sam. Daenerys is our hope. Tell them that, at the Citadel. Make them listen. They must send her a maester. Daenerys must be counseled, taught, protected. For all these years I've lingered, waiting, watching, and now that the day has dawned I am too old. I am dying, Sam." Tears ran from his blind white eyes at that admission. "Death should hold no fear for a man as old as me, but it does. Isn't that silly? It is always dark where I am, so why should I fear the darkness? Yet I cannot help but wonder what will follow, when the last warmth leaves my body. Will I feast forever in the Father's golden hall as the septons say? Will I talk with Egg again, find Dareon whole and happy, hear my sisters singing to their children? What if the horselords have the truth of it? Will I ride through the night sky forever on a stallion made of flame? Or must I return again to this vale of sorrow? Who can say, truly? Who has been beyond the wall of death to see? Only the wights, and we know what they are like. We know."

 

So it seems that being one of the heads of the dragon has nothing to do with riding a dragon, but counseling, teaching and protecting.  Who is showing her the way?

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys II

"Are you here?"

"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Daenerys III

She is standing over me. "Who's there?" Dany peered into the darkness. She thought she could see a shadow, the faintest outline of a shape. "What do you want to me?"

"Remember. To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."

I trust the Aemon knows what he is talking about.  I'm guessing that Tyrion and Barristan are qualified to be heads of the dragon as well.

Edited by LynnS

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2 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

I had a strange thought. Have we discussed before if Lightbringer was actually a magical dragonhorn rather than a literal sword? If this is a possibility, then Victarion might be Azor Ahai reborn. He'll try to use the dragonhorn and end up being devoured by one of the dragons. 

I don't recall that discussion.  I think there was some discussion that Ghost was the horn of winter though.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, LynnS said:

So it seems that being one of the heads of the dragon has nothing to do with riding a dragon, but counseling, teaching and protecting.  Who is showing her the way?

How do you conclude from Aemon thinking that the maesters of the citadel need to send her a teacher/counselor/guide, that that person is one of the three heads of the dragon?

Sure, he thinks that he's too old and frail to be one of the heads himself, and also thats he's too frail to be her maester/guide/counselor, but thats not a logical connection that the guide/counselor/maester must be a head, only that there are two roles he could have played and he can't fulfill either of them. 

Edited by corbon

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On 8/11/2019 at 2:44 PM, LynnS said:

There is the business of a faceless man, with crow on his shoulder, tossing Balon Greyjoy off a bridge.  That same faceless man ends up closeted with Marwyn on Sam's arrival.

Do we know it's the same faceless man?

 

On 8/11/2019 at 2:44 PM, LynnS said:

I just think that some glass candles burning in some house in Qaarth doesn't make a good connection to Euron.  What we do have are candles burning in Marwyn's quarters and a lot of talk about it among the acolytes.

I have some tinfoil that Euron does have a glass candle and staring at it for long periods has caused his one eye to fade to blue. Hence the patch that he probably moves from eye to eye, which could also be a not to pirates in history. Otherwise, he has a black eye, as do all the other Greyjoy's. Well, except Theon, who never gets an eye color mention, which I think is mighty suspicious. Anyway, the Stroma procedure uses bright laser light to alter the pigment in your iris, causing brown or hazel eyes to become blue; this procedure is in the testing phase and not available to the general public. 

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2 hours ago, St Daga said:

Do we know it's the same faceless man?

I read something that was pretty convincing, but I can't remember now.  Pate definately meets Jaqen H'gar.  Arya's description of Jaqen matches Pate's description of the Alchemist.

It's possible Euron has a glass candle but so far we've only seen Marwyn's candle.  It wouldn't surprise me if the FM-Pate was at the Citadel to take one of the candles for Euron.

Does he move is eye patch from eye to eye?  I thought he only covered the black eye but switched between a black patch and a red patch.

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6 hours ago, corbon said:

How do you conclude from Aemon thinking that the maesters of the citadel need to send her a teacher/counselor/guide, that that person is one of the three heads of the dragon?

Sure, he thinks that he's too old and frail to be one of the heads himself, and also thats he's too frail to be her maester/guide/counselor, but thats not a logical connection that the guide/counselor/maester must be a head, only that there are two roles he could have played and he can't fulfill either of them. 

Yeh, the popular opinion is that there must be two other dragonriders plus Dany to make a three headed dragon.  I think Aemon is pretty clear that his primary function as a head of the dragon is to show her the way.  In my book that includes guiding, counseling and protecting.  If he can't do that, the next best thing, in his opinion, is to send her a maester; someone with knowledge and wisdom to guide her and the strength to protect her.  

If Victarion and Moqorro get their hands on a dragon and think that's highly probable; or, if one of the dragons is killed; there won't be three dragons to ride.  

The only character I can see who could actually fill Aemon's role and ride a dragon is Tyrion. 
 

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

"Will you make a song for him?" the woman asked.

"He has a song," the man replied. "He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire." He looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany's, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door. "There must be one more," he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. "The dragon has three heads." He went to the window seat, picked up a harp, and ran his fingers lightly over its silvery strings. Sweet sadness filled the room as man and wife and babe faded like the morning mist, only the music lingering behind to speed her on her way.

 

If this is a true vision; Rhaegar doesn't have any dragons when Aegon is born.  So what is he talking about? 

Edited by LynnS

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6 hours ago, LynnS said:

Yeh, the popular opinion is that there must be two other dragonriders plus Dany to make a three headed dragon.  I think Aemon is pretty clear that his primary function as a head of the dragon is to show her the way.

He sure is, and I think we can also infer with confidence that Aemon does not believe the job of a "head of the dragon" is to ride a dragon, because as he tells us:

Quote

"I must go to her. I must. Would that I was even ten years younger."

If he were ten years younger, he would be 92.  Well, a man of 92 is not going to be riding any dragons. 

However, Aemon at 92 could certainly be

Quote

showing her the way

Though as always, this is just what a particular character (Aemon) thinks at this point in time, so he could still be wrong -- both that Dany is the PtwP,  and about what a "head of the dragon" is supposed to do. 

It would help if we could read the source text that discusses the PtwP ourselves... but GRRM, infatuated as always with Lady Ambiguity, has not seen fit to provide it.

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34 minutes ago, JNR said:

He sure is, and I think we can also infer with confidence that Aemon does not believe the job of a "head of the dragon" is to ride a dragon, because as he tells us:

If he were ten years younger, he would be 92.  Well, a man of 92 is not going to be riding any dragons. 

However, Aemon at 92 could certainly be

Though as always, this is just what a particular character (Aemon) thinks at this point in time, so he could still be wrong -- both that Dany is the PtwP,  and about what a "head of the dragon" is supposed to do. 

It would help if we could read the source text that discusses the PtwP ourselves... but GRRM, infatuated as always with Lady Ambiguity, has not seen fit to provide it.

This is the superficial answer:

Quote

"Your Grace," he conceded, "the dragon has three heads, remember? You have wondered at that, ever since you heard it from the warlocks in the House of Dust. Well, here's your meaning: Balerion, Meraxes, and Vhagar, ridden by Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya. The three-headed dragon of House Targaryen—three dragons, and three riders."

"Yes," said Dany, "but my brothers are dead."

"Rhaenys and Visenya were Aegon's wives as well as his sisters. You have no brothers, but you can take husbands. And I tell you truly, Daenerys, there is no man in all the world who will ever be half so true to you as me."

I think GRRM said that a dragon rider doesn't have to have dragonblood, so theoretically, Dany could take any husband.  But whether they pass muster with a dragon is another thing.

THE dragon... has three heads.  That could mean any number of things.  What is THE dragon?  Is it House Targaryen?  Is Dany THE dragon?  Is it the Great Stone Dragon that Davos references; or the man limned in flame that Dany sees in the tent ritual.  Is it the black dragon she sees when she wakes the dragon? 

I think it might be something else which may or may not include riding a dragon. 

If Dany is one head of the dragon; then the other two heads are just husbands?  Or do they have to be extraordinary in some way?  Do they have to be picked or marked by THE dragon?

Otherwise, there is no interest for me at all, if the only qualification is that they marry Dany and climb on the back of a dragon.

 

Edited by LynnS

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7 hours ago, LynnS said:

Does he move is eye patch from eye to eye?  I thought he only covered the black eye but switched between a black patch and a red patch.

Well, so far, we have only seen Euron's blue eye, his "smiling eye", which is his right eye. His left eye is covered with a patch, sometimes black, sometimes red. Theon thinks of his left eye, as being black and shining with malice. Now, does that mean it's actually black, or is it just a figure of speech? I don't really know, but several of the Greyjoy's have black eyes. Balon and Aeron have black eyes, I though Victarion did as well, but can't find it in the text, so I might be wrong about that. Theon has no description of eye color as far as I can see, which I think is weird, since he is a pretty big character. I would guess that is left out on purpose. Asha's eyes are "dark", which is very vague, but could easily be black. Or grey or brown or purple, I suppose. 

My theory of him changing the side he where's his eye patch on is based on the idea that pirates and sailor in history would wear a patch on one eye for above decks, and then place the patch over the other eye below decks. That way, they had an eye adjusted to each light condition, and didn't have to wait for their vision to adjust. We have no text that indicates that Euron switches his eye patch from eye to eye, although I do wonder why he sometimes wears a red patch and sometimes wheres a black patch.

The black eye "shining with malice" is from one of the released Winds chapters, but I don't think this would be information that GRRM would change (unless this information from Theon is flawed in some way, perhaps by memory?), but it seems that Euron has a blue eye and a black eye. Why is that? My theory is that one is natural and one is not. But why a color change? Was he born this way? Was it an accident? Trauma to the eye can cause pigment changes, but so can exposure to bright lights, or just age will lighten eye color. The glass candle in Marwyn's chambers is noted to be "unpleasantly bright". Now, I suppose the blue eye could be natural and the black eye is the altered eye, but we do have Greyjoy's with black eyes for a precedent, so that is the direction my thoughts lean. So, my theory involves Euron staring into the bright glass candle enough that it has altered his eye color of his right eye. :dunno:

 

 

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8 hours ago, LynnS said:

I read something that was pretty convincing, but I can't remember now.  Pate definately meets Jaqen H'gar.  Arya's description of Jaqen matches Pate's description of the Alchemist.

It's possible Euron has a glass candle but so far we've only seen Marwyn's candle.  It wouldn't surprise me if the FM-Pate was at the Citadel to take one of the candles for Euron.

Does he move is eye patch from eye to eye?  I thought he only covered the black eye but switched between a black patch and a red patch.

Euron is an inverted parallel to Bloodraven. Bloodraven has snow-white hair and one pink eye having lost the other. He lives underground, "sees" through the weirwoods, and can come to people in dreams. Euron is dark haired, dark eyed, and while he hasn't lost an eye he covers it, and I quite agree with St Daga - it has something to do with his ability to "see". Pirates used to wear a patch over one eye so that it was accustomed to the dark and they'd have an advantage fighting below decks. Since Bloodraven "sees" below ground, Euron "sees" from above. His nickname, the Crow's Eye, implies that he can "see" from high above - the viewpoint of a crow. My thoughts are that the covered eye is similar to how skinchangers see through the eyes of their familiars. It's easier to slip into your familiar in your sleep, but Bran learned to see what was in front of him and through Summer at the same time, but it looked like double vision - an odd layering of two sights. Perhaps Euron can "see" through his third eye and the patch provides a sort of movie screen? The patch might help keep the two sights separate. The one he sees right in front of him with his blue eye and the black one what the third eye sees. I'm not sure that he even needs a glass candle.

 

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Bran VII

"M'lord is certain?"
 
Never moving his broken body, he reached out all the same, and for an instant he was seeing double. There stood Osha holding the torch, and Meera and Jojen and Hodor, and the double row of tall granite pillars and long dead lords behind them stretching away into darkness . . . but there was Winterfell as well, grey with drifting smoke, the massive oak-and-iron gates charred and askew, the drawbridge down in a tangle of broken chains and missing planks. Bodies floated in the moat, islands for the crows.
 
"Certain," he declared.

 

 
 
8 hours ago, LynnS said:

Yeh, the popular opinion is that there must be two other dragonriders plus Dany to make a three headed dragon.  I think Aemon is pretty clear that his primary function as a head of the dragon is to show her the way.  In my book that includes guiding, counseling and protecting.  If he can't do that, the next best thing, in his opinion, is to send her a maester; someone with knowledge and wisdom to guide her and the strength to protect her.  

If Victarion and Moqorro get their hands on a dragon and think that's highly probable; or, if one of the dragons is killed; there won't be three dragons to ride.  

The only character I can see who could actually fill Aemon's role and ride a dragon is Tyrion. 
 

If this is a true vision; Rhaegar doesn't have any dragons when Aegon is born.  So what is he talking about? 

I think Maester Aemon DID think the "three heads" rode dragons - if he were only 10 years younger! Why else say that? He could be an advisor at any age, but it makes sense that he was concerned about being able to ride.

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

This is the superficial answer:

I think GRRM said that a dragon rider doesn't have to have dragonblood, so theoretically, Dany could take any husband.  But whether they pass muster with a dragon is another thing.

THE dragon... has three heads.  That could mean any number of things.  What is THE dragon?  Is it House Targaryen?  Is Dany THE dragon?  Is it the Great Stone Dragon that Davos references; or the man limned in flame that Dany sees in the tent ritual.  Is it the black dragon she sees when she wakes the dragon? 

I think it might be something else which may or may not include riding a dragon. 

If Dany is one head of the dragon; then the other two heads are just husbands?  Or do they have to be extraordinary in some way?  Do they have to be picked or marked by THE dragon?

Otherwise, there is no interest for me at all, if the only qualification is that they marry Dany and climb on the back of a dragon.

 

These are Jorah Mormont's words. He was infatuated with Daenerys and wanted to be one of her husbands, and he was willing to be one of the heads if he could just unwrap that Quartheen gown...

 

Edited by Feather Crystal

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36 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

Perhaps Euron can "see" through his third eye and the patch provides a sort of movie screen? The patch might help keep the two sights separate. The one he sees right in front of him with his blue eye and the black one what the third eye sees. I'm not sure that he even needs a glass candle.

Perhaps Euron is actually the Three-eyed Crow? Bloodraven did seem to be a bit confused when Bran questioned him...

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