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Rippounet

What should be done... about climate change

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58 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Child activists are a bit of a joke. Their brains aren’t fully developed and they are heavily influenced by what the adults around them have fed into their minds.

Edit : 'kay let's be adults and have you tell us what Greta is wrong about. 

Edited by Rippounet

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19 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Just accept it and get on with life. Mass hysteria won’t change it.

Right, this is definitely the motto that ensures substantive change.

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26 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Sensible climate action is required. Alarmist hysterics should be challenged.

 

Alarmism is sensible, because the situation is alarming.

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5 minutes ago, DMC said:

Right, this is definitely the motto that ensures substantive change.

Given past posts on the subject of global demographics there are some posters in this thread that will likely view the mass deaths in parts of the world that aren't their own back yard as a feature of climate change rather than a bug. Shocking how they pretend that it's simply being impotent rather than a choice.

And I'm pretty sure Greta is going to feel far more abused by the way we are trashing the future of the biosphere and by the right wing adults with massive media platforms attacking a child than she is by the people that are supporting her in what she chooses to do.

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5 minutes ago, DMC said:

Right, this is definitely the motto that ensures substantive change.

Give me an electric SUV that matches the performance of my current SUV at the same price level and I will switch today. Same with solar panels on my roof - I’m all for it, as long as it doesn’t cost me more.

The same with everything else in my life - food, holidays, you name it. But don’t expect me to reduce my quality of life for your hysterics. Instead lets find technological solutions to maintaining that quality of life while also reducing the impact on the climate. That is what most people want. Those that care at least. Not the third world masses who will burn down every forest in sight for a patch of land to grow some food just to feed themselves.

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4 minutes ago, karaddin said:

Given past posts on the subject of global demographics there are some posters in this thread that will likely view the mass deaths in parts of the world that aren't their own back yard as a feature of climate change rather than a bug. Shocking how they pretend that it's simply being impotent rather than a choice.

And I'm pretty sure Greta is going to feel far more abused by the way we are trashing the future of the biosphere and by the right wing adults with massive media platforms attacking a child than she is by the people that are supporting her in what she chooses to do.

The vast majority of people don’t base their daily life choices on what’s happening to some people who live thousands of miles away. They never have, and  are unlikely to do so voluntarily in the near future.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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33 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

But we won’t die out as a result either. In fact, we will mitigate the consequences with new technology as best we can.

Who's "we?" Without substantive, transformative action, lots of people are going to die. Primarily people from the global south. Are they not "we?"

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Just now, Liffguard said:

Who's "we?" Without substantive, transformative action, lots of people are going to die. Primarily people from the global south. Are they not "we?"

See the above few posts - the very best you could say is that he's apathetic and unwilling to spend a single dollar to save them and that's more charitable than I am.

And he claims his world view is the true fucking Christianity. 

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4 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Give me an electric SUV that matches the performance of my current SUV at the same price level and I will switch today. Same with solar panels on my roof - I’m all for it, as long as it doesn’t cost me more.

The same with everything else in my life - food, holidays, you name it. But don’t expect me to reduce my quality of life for your hysterics. Instead lets find technological solutions to maintaining that quality of life while also reducing the impact on the climate. That is what most people want. Those that care at least. Not the third world masses who will burn down every forest in sight for a patch of land to grow some food just to feed themselves.

Ok, point is if everybody shares your attitude nothing's ever going to change.  And as others have asked, please identify what exactly Thunberg has said or done that qualifies as hysterics.

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1 minute ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

don’t expect me to reduce my quality of life.

Fixed it.

Some people would rather see the world burn than give up their suv. 

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Just now, Liffguard said:

Who's "we?" Without substantive, transformative action, lots of people are going to die. Primarily people from the global south. Are they not "we?"

No one WANTS global warming. But not everyone is willing to reduce their quality of life to prevent the 2 degree doomsday prophecy.

Climate change will be resolved. By technological advances. In about 20 years. That’s my prediction. In the meantime focus on paying off your mortgage.

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1 minute ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Climate change will be resolved. By technological advances. In about 20 years. That’s my prediction. In the meantime focus on paying off your mortgage.

It's nice to see how superior to a child's your arguments are. 

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1 minute ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

No one WANTS global warming. But not everyone is willing to reduce their quality of life to prevent the 2 degree doomsday prophecy.

Climate change will be resolved. By technological advances. In about 20 years. That’s my prediction. In the meantime focus on paying off your mortgage.

It's not a binary wherein it either is resolved, or isn't. It's a continuous scale of damage,  and plenty of damage will be done within those twenty years. Likely irreparable damage. We have the technology to start making major changes now, but the major decision makers choose not to. This is not a technological problem, it's a political one.

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I saw a graph showing human deaths from natural disasters since 1900. It has steadily come down until it is now lower than ever. 

That’s thanks to technological advances, despite those advances contributing at least indirectly to climate change over the same period. There are less people in poverty today than 100 years ago. Again, thanks to technological and industrial progress. And yes, a side effect of this progress was climate change.

But the benefits outweigh the negatives. And will continue to do so, as technology continues to advance and we gradually shift to a sustainable energy system.

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As I have said before. Tesla is at the point where their cars are better than internal combustion cars. The price point just needs to drop by maybe another 20-30% and there will be no reason why all cars can’t be electric. By all means, ban internal combustion engines as soon as their price point crosses that threshold. Massive impact on reducing carbon emissions without reducing anyone’s quality of life.

Same with power generation. Replace coal with solar and nuclear. Those are real actions that can save the world. Not blaming people for wanting to drive an SUV, live in the suburbs, eat meat and take their family on a holiday every year.

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11 minutes ago, Liffguard said:

It's not a binary wherein it either is resolved, or isn't. It's a continuous scale of damage,  and plenty of damage will be done within those twenty years. Likely irreparable damage. We have the technology to start making major changes now, but the major decision makers choose not to. This is not a technological problem, it's a political one.

What do you want the political solution to mean to the average guy? Higher fuel prices? Higher meat prices? Higher airline ticket prices? Taxes on living in a suburb vs in an inner city? 

I can see why people don’t buy into your vision, if so.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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Lol at thinking 2C of warming is a "doomsday" prophecy, you need to update your propaganda. 2C is realistically our best case scenario absent every politician on the planet suddenly ignoring people like you. 2C is going to be realised within my life time and I'm not even one of these kids, if we continue on the path you activate we genuinely run the risk of the doomsday/kill ourselves scenario you think is so laughable.

The support systems of the biosphere are looking fragile and there's a *lot* of damage that's already happened and is continuing in the back ground that we don't even know to worry about. It's a cascade.

As to that last part - Americans have the cheapest petrol in the Western world yet some seem to think that any kind of price increase is utterly unacceptable AND using vehicles that might reduce that petrol consumption - potentially costing less even with higher petrol prices - is also utterly unacceptable.

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7 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

What do you want the political solution to mean to the average guy? Higher fuel prices? Higher meat prices? Higher airline ticket prices? Taxes on living in a suburb vs in an inner city? 

I can see why people don’t buy into your vision.

I'm not a policy expert, and way smarter people than me have got ideas around all of these things. I will say that all of these things will need to be either drastically limited in some way, but I reject the premise that it can only be brought about through price mechanisms. Fuel and suburbs/inner city can both potentially be addressed, for example, through better infrastructure and urban planning.

I also think that climate change policy has to go hand in hand with economic justice policy. We can't accept a world in which a small cabal of haves get to enjoy pre-crisis luxuries whilst the rest live in squalor. So maybe meat becomes vastly more expensive to reflect it's true cost. But other food can be subsidised, or even provided as a public service, so that no one is pushed further into poverty. Maybe fuel is both more expensive, or even rationed, but free public transport is available to all.

 

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18 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Not blaming people for wanting to drive an SUV, live in the suburbs, eat meat and take their family on a holiday every year.

I don't blame individuals and their individual desires. I blame the political and corporate institutions that have so thoroughly abrogated any responsibility for their large-scale actions.

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7 minutes ago, Liffguard said:

I'm not a policy expert, and way smarter people than me have got ideas around all of these things. I will say that all of these things will need to be either drastically limited in some way, but I reject the premise that it can only be brought about through price mechanisms. Fuel and suburbs/inner city can both potentially be addressed, for example, through better infrastructure and urban planning.

I also think that climate change policy has to go hand in hand with economic justice policy. We can't accept a world in which a small cabal of haves get to enjoy pre-crisis luxuries whilst the rest live in squalor. So maybe meat becomes vastly more expensive to reflect it's true cost. But other food can be subsidised, or even provided as a public service, so that no one is pushed further into poverty. Maybe fuel is both more expensive, or even rationed, but free public transport is available to all.

 

Divorce it from the “social justice” bandwagon and a lot more so called “haves” might buy into it.

If someone approached me with a genuine solution to address climate change that isn’t just a disguised form of progressive tax/redistribution of wealth I would be far more open to it. And I’m not even wealthy, just middle class.

That’s why Tesla excites me so much. A way to live and enjoy life while also saving the planet. A win-win outcome.

And I suspect that’s also why Tesla gets surprisingly muted support from the left wing who should be rejoicing at their progress. Because they present a way to save the climate without also redistributing wealth, or cramming everyone into egalitarian trains and buses.

Can’t have those middle class “haves” with a bit of money continuing to drive high performance cars, even if the cars are electric. Nope, we need to “Bernie Sanders” the lot of them and force them to ride on the subway with the rest of us. In the name of saving the climate, of course. And take their meat away while we’re at it.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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