Jump to content
Daendrew

Tyrek Lannister theories?

Recommended Posts

Tyrek Lannister is mentioned in every single book. GRRM must have something interesting up his sleeve when he reveals the mystery behind his disappearance and the fate of House Lannister after Cercei and her children die.

What do you think is going on and what will happen?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Genuinely don't have a clue. It's incredibly frustrating because its just about the only major mystery I haven't got a single realistic theory for. The only thing I can think of is that Varys or Littlefinger has him but idk what for...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Adam Yozza said:

Genuinely don't have a clue. It's incredibly frustrating because its just about the only major mystery I haven't got a single realistic theory for. The only thing I can think of is that Varys or Littlefinger has him but idk what for...

BryndenBFish thinks Varys needs a loyal Lannister figurehead for fAegon's invasion. That is as logical a theory as I have heard yet. Open to ideas.

https://warsandpoliticsoficeandfire.wordpress.com/2016/02/05/heirs-in-the-shadows-the-young-lion/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More concerned on whether Gerion will show up. Tyrek is a well worn bloody smeer on Flea Bottom's cart paths Ermesande can vouch for that fact.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read one where he was one of the bodies that Arya prepped in the HoBaW, but I'm not sure I buy it. The FM don't take just any old body as payment for a hit, especially one that you've basically kidnapped and has no intrinsic value to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Daendrew said:

BryndenBFish thinks Varys needs a loyal Lannister figurehead for fAegon's invasion. That is as logical a theory as I have heard yet. Open to ideas.

https://warsandpoliticsoficeandfire.wordpress.com/2016/02/05/heirs-in-the-shadows-the-young-lion/

I think BryndenBFish is close, as in Tyrek is a trump card for Varys to aid with Aegon's invasion.

But remember that Tyrek was a squire to Robert alongside of Lancel. Both were Robert's squires. Most of our focus has been on Lancel: who helped Robert get so drunk on strongwine it got him killed, who ended up sleeping with Cersei, who confessed his sins to the High Septon, and I'm pretty sure also confessed all to the High Sparrow when he became a Warrior's Son. So, far he is the likeliest informant for HS accusations of Cersei having committed regicide. And as a Warrior's Son he is most likely to be one of the Faith's champions if it comes to a Trial by Combat. 

But Tyrek was his fellow squire. Tyrek is not tainted by regicide or sleeping with Cersei, but he would know at least as much of Jaime and Cersei's relationship as Lancel did. Certainly at the time of his disappearance, Tyrek was the best choice to whisk away to expose Cersei when the time came that her children need to be exposed as the product of incest and that she committed regicide, because Lancel was enthralled by Cersei and her lover at the time. 

He is not being kept hidden safely away by Varys to make him a loyal Lannister figurehead for Aegon, but to produce as a reliable witness with a squeaky clean record of conduct to expose Cersei and her children, when the people and lords are ready to be swayed to flock behind Aegon as a savior from a fully corrupted government, regardless of outcomes of rigged trials and trials by combat. That time is coming very very near. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

I think BryndenBFish is close, as in Tyrek is a trump card for Varys to aid with Aegon's invasion.

But remember that Tyrek was a squire to Robert alongside of Lancel. Both were Robert's squires. Most of our focus has been on Lancel: who helped Robert get so drunk on strongwine it got him killed, who ended up sleeping with Cersei, who confessed his sins to the High Septon, and I'm pretty sure also confessed all to the High Sparrow when he became a Warrior's Son. So, far he is the likeliest informant for HS accusations of Cersei having committed regicide. And as a Warrior's Son he is most likely to be one of the Faith's champions if it comes to a Trial by Combat. 

But Tyrek was his fellow squire. Tyrek is not tainted by regicide or sleeping with Cersei, but he would know at least as much of Jaime and Cersei's relationship as Lancel did. Certainly at the time of his disappearance, Tyrek was the best choice to whisk away to expose Cersei when the time came that her children need to be exposed as the product of incest and that she committed regicide, because Lancel was enthralled by Cersei and her lover at the time. 

He is not being kept hidden safely away by Varys to make him a loyal Lannister figurehead for Aegon, but to produce as a reliable witness with a squeaky clean record of conduct to expose Cersei and her children, when the people and lords are ready to be swayed to flock behind Aegon as a savior from a fully corrupted government, regardless of outcomes of rigged trials and trials by combat. That time is coming very very near. 

 

Very astute and clever as always Sweetsunray.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a really good speculation here sometime ago that Varys removed Tyrek to remove Lannister influence from Hayford because the House is traditionally a Targ supporter. 

Tyrek isn't that far down the line of succession for House Lannister either right now. A couple more dead people and he should be able to inherit it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Lannister figurehead theory doesn't really fly considering Tyrek only comes after Kevan's children, and would also not be a Casterly Rock or the West to capitalize on his Lannister name when he finally came forth. While or if Cersei doesn't take the West into her own hands, the true powers there should be some grown up Lannister cousins from Jason's branch. Kevan's children are too young, Genna isn't there (and her children are Freys, anyway), but Daven's sister Myrielle and Cerenna, Damon and Ella Lannister, their son Damion (currently castellan of Casterly Rock) and his children Lucion and Lanna (wife of Antario Jast). Kevan's wife Dorna Swyft doesn't even reside in Casterly Rock but rather in Lannisport, meaning she is not likely to play a major role in any politicking at the Rock.

That wouldn't prevent Aegon from naming him Lord of Casterly Rock against Cersei or whoever runs the Rock whenever he comes back into the story, but it would be about as effective as Alekyne Florent being the rightful Lord of Brightwater is right now. However, if Aegon were ever to march into the West or sent an army there then Tyrek going with them certainly couldn't hurt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps, Varys orchestrated the kidnapping of Tyrek to use him against House Lannister when the time was right for Aegon to assert his claim? Tyrek could be made to testify that Cersei and Lancel conspired to murder Robert. Since Aegon is presumed to be a Targaryen, the loyalist House Hayford, and other houses of the Crownlands, should be inclined to back the Targaryen claimant. 

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/136968-varys-orchestrated-the-kidnapping-of-tyrek-to-use-him-against-house-lannister-when-the-time-was-right-for-aegon-to-assert-his-claim/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it must be significant that he is married -- not just betrothed, but actually wed -- to the infant "lady" Hayford.  Maybe he was killed by some rival for the lordship of that House, or by other Hayfords who didn't like the marriage. Also, we know that other squires made fun of him and his baby bride. Maybe he ran away out of embarrassment, or because he was in love with someone else?

Mere speculations, I know, without any real evidence to support them. Maybe someone with more knowledge than me can take one of these hunches and run with it. We need an answer to this riddle! In my re-reads, whenever I encounter a new character with blond hair, I ask myself, "could that be him?"  :v)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Aebram said:

I think it must be significant that he is married -- not just betrothed, but actually wed -- to the infant "lady" Hayford.  Maybe he was killed by some rival for the lordship of that House, or by other Hayfords who didn't like the marriage. Also, we know that other squires made fun of him and his baby bride. Maybe he ran away out of embarrassment, or because he was in love with someone else?

Mere speculations, I know, without any real evidence to support them. Maybe someone with more knowledge than me can take one of these hunches and run with it. We need an answer to this riddle! In my re-reads, whenever I encounter a new character with blond hair, I ask myself, "could that be him?"  :v)

Tyrek was *very* ticked about the marriage. My head canon is that someone like Varys or LF talked him into flipping sides by promising to get Tyrek out of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Perhaps, Varys orchestrated the kidnapping of Tyrek to use him against House Lannister when the time was right for Aegon to assert his claim? Tyrek could be made to testify that Cersei and Lancel conspired to murder Robert. Since Aegon is presumed to be a Targaryen, the loyalist House Hayford, and other houses of the Crownlands, should be inclined to back the Targaryen claimant. 

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/136968-varys-orchestrated-the-kidnapping-of-tyrek-to-use-him-against-house-lannister-when-the-time-was-right-for-aegon-to-assert-his-claim/

I'd actually not be surprised if Aegon attainted most/all of the known Crownland houses to reward the officers of the Golden Company. Rosby is without a lord, anyway, right now, Stokeworth has been usurped by sellsword scum with Lannister ties, the Hayfords have an infant lady, etc.

If there are Rosby, Stokeworth, Hayford men fighting for Aegon I think this will have little or nothing to do with whoever runs those houses right now and more with the fact that the men themselves are Targaryen loyalists - sort of like the old Riverlander from Arya's ACoK chapters was an Aerys fanboy. He didn't need his lord to convince him of that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

I think BryndenBFish is close, as in Tyrek is a trump card for Varys to aid with Aegon's invasion.

But remember that Tyrek was a squire to Robert alongside of Lancel. Both were Robert's squires. Most of our focus has been on Lancel: who helped Robert get so drunk on strongwine it got him killed, who ended up sleeping with Cersei, who confessed his sins to the High Septon, and I'm pretty sure also confessed all to the High Sparrow when he became a Warrior's Son. So, far he is the likeliest informant for HS accusations of Cersei having committed regicide. And as a Warrior's Son he is most likely to be one of the Faith's champions if it comes to a Trial by Combat. 

But Tyrek was his fellow squire. Tyrek is not tainted by regicide or sleeping with Cersei, but he would know at least as much of Jaime and Cersei's relationship as Lancel did. Certainly at the time of his disappearance, Tyrek was the best choice to whisk away to expose Cersei when the time came that her children need to be exposed as the product of incest and that she committed regicide, because Lancel was enthralled by Cersei and her lover at the time. 

He is not being kept hidden safely away by Varys to make him a loyal Lannister figurehead for Aegon, but to produce as a reliable witness with a squeaky clean record of conduct to expose Cersei and her children, when the people and lords are ready to be swayed to flock behind Aegon as a savior from a fully corrupted government, regardless of outcomes of rigged trials and trials by combat. That time is coming very very near.

That's the best theory I've read other than "He's dead," which is the one I believe. Kudos on this guy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Perhaps, Varys orchestrated the kidnapping of Tyrek to use him against House Lannister when the time was right for Aegon to assert his claim? Tyrek could be made to testify that Cersei and Lancel conspired to murder Robert. Since Aegon is presumed to be a Targaryen, the loyalist House Hayford, and other houses of the Crownlands, should be inclined to back the Targaryen claimant. 

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/136968-varys-orchestrated-the-kidnapping-of-tyrek-to-use-him-against-house-lannister-when-the-time-was-right-for-aegon-to-assert-his-claim/

That was an interesting read and kudos to pointing out Tyrek's use as a witness to help turn people pro-Aegon a few years ago. I like your Hayford analysis too which pretty much compares with most houses of the Crownlands: even if they're not always pro-Targ they're certainly becoming anti-Lannister more and more. But I regard that more as an advantageous by-product. His foremost advantage would be what he witnesses as squire of Robert, but with a far more clean record than Lancel. Cersei's already using "Osmund must have overinterpreted my dislike of the High Septon" and she can use it against Lancel. That Lancel has become penitent is an added bonus for Varys after Tyrek's disappearance.

But Tyrek's use becomes especially illuminating once you read Cersei's aFfC arc from her meeting with the High Sparrow until her arrest, and then Jaime's chapters visiting House Hayford and then his exchange with Lancel at Darry. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I'd actually not be surprised if Aegon attainted most/all of the known Crownland houses to reward the officers of the Golden Company. Rosby is without a lord, anyway, right now, Stokeworth has been usurped by sellsword scum with Lannister ties, the Hayfords have an infant lady, etc.

If there are Rosby, Stokeworth, Hayford men fighting for Aegon I think this will have little or nothing to do with whoever runs those houses right now and more with the fact that the men themselves are Targaryen loyalists - sort of like the old Riverlander from Arya's ACoK chapters was an Aerys fanboy. He didn't need his lord to convince him of that.

Bronn might have Lannister ties, but he's already turning against Cersei. There is no official decision on Rosby yet, but Cersei will have to fight for it, as the ward holds it. Aegon doesn't need to have Rosby or Stokeworth men with the GC fighting for him. The ward and Bronn will likely gladly help him in preventing food from passing along their roads to KL. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Bronn might have Lannister ties, but he's already turning against Cersei. There is no official decision on Rosby yet, but Cersei will have to fight for it, as the ward holds it. Aegon doesn't need to have Rosby or Stokeworth men with the GC fighting for him. The ward and Bronn will likely gladly help him in preventing food from passing along their roads to KL. 

Cersei has no voice on the Small Council. They plan to settle Rosby in the next session, and there is no indication at this point that Rosby's ward is one of the claimants who have come forth (or whether he is actually even eligible to make a claim - Lord Gyles could have intended to leave his castle and lordship to a ward that's no Rosby relation).

But the general point is just that Aegon has no reason to favor any of the Crownlands lords while he actually will have to reward the sellswords who are going to make him king. So taking Rosby and Stokeworth from whoever holds it right now (or in Ermesande's case marry her to some man of his choosing).

Bronn is scum they don't have to reward or keep around even if he was trying to make himself useful. Aegon has to keep his followers sweet. He will have to name a new Lord of Storm's End, too, once he is king, possibly even before that, and he should attaint quite a few houses in the Stormlands and the Crownlands who either don't declare for him in time or who actively fought against him.

And I very much doubt that the Crownlands will openly move against or anger KL by messing with food supplies while the Tyrell armies are still in the city (not to mention that the Roseroad is open so there is really no need for food to come in via Rosby or Stokeworth). If they were to try to act big then Mace would simply sent a couple of thousand men-at-arms to take over their holdings. He still has 30,000-40,000 men in KL.

If the Tyrells lose at SE things might change, but then KL itself will turn against Tommen and possibly drag the boy out of the Red Keep to rip him to pieces. KL is a Targaryen city at heart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Tyrek's disappearance is more likely to be related to what he knows, than to any possibility of his being in charge of House Lannister.  He is too far down the line of succession and too young for his taking charge to be a really useful motive.  And who says he'll do whatever Varys (or whoever) wants in any event?

Tyrek was obviously in a position to know things about Cersei, Robert, Jaime, and any connections between them, including Cersei's attempts to kill Robert.  Whether any of this information is still useful or relevant is a good question, though, as a lot has happened since then.

I think the main question is whether he had help or simply took advantage of the chaos of the riot to make his disappearance.  Both are decent possibilities.  As a Lannister, he would likely have access to significant funds to make his escape with.  In any event, I am keeping my eyes open for blonde squire types of the right age.  Especially in Arya's story, as Braavos would be a logical place to hide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Cersei has no voice on the Small Council. They plan to settle Rosby in the next session, and there is no indication at this point that Rosby's ward is one of the claimants who have come forth (or whether he is actually even eligible to make a claim - Lord Gyles could have intended to leave his castle and lordship to a ward that's no Rosby relation).

Well, the regent is dead. Pycelle's dead. Swyft is off to Braavos. Mace Tyrell is Hand, but will want the glory to "re"-capture SE himself. Redwyne is at the Arbor and Oldtown. So, that leaves Qyburn, Lady Nym and Tarly. And even during that small council, Tommen's claim on Rosby (allegedly "gifted" by Gyles Rosby) was one of the 5. With the murder of Kevan and Pycelle, Cersei is sure to make a move.

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

But the general point is just that Aegon has no reason to favor any of the Crownlands lords while he actually will have to reward the sellswords who are going to make him king. So taking Rosby and Stokeworth from whoever holds it right now (or in Ermesande's case marry her to some man of his choosing).

He has over 20 castles to gift in the Stormlands alone. And some of the Stormlanders have already chosen to join Aegon. He's not going to take any castle away from anyone who actively helps him in getting KL.

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Bronn is scum they don't have to reward or keep around even if he was trying to make himself useful.

He's looking out for Lollys and her child, which isn't even his own. He might be mercenary, but no more than some of the men of the GC.  

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

And I very much doubt that the Crownlands will openly move against or anger KL by messing with food supplies while the Tyrell armies are still in the city (not to mention that the Roseroad is open so there is really no need for food to come in via Rosby or Stokeworth). If they were to try to act big then Mace would simply sent a couple of thousand men-at-arms to take over their holdings. He still has 30,000-40,000 men in KL.

Well, that's just it ain't it? If the Tyrell armies are storming for SE, Rosby and Stokeworth can shut the access from any food supply coming from Duskendale. The majority of the Lannister forces are in the RL and are about to getting their asses kicked. But even if keeps a good portion in KL, it's gonna take lives to storm it and problematic food supply to siege. 

Why'd you think George has Cersei make enemies out of the ward of Rosby and Bronn at Stokeworth in aFfC? For shits and giggles? No, to give them enough reason to oppose and set up a blockade at the opportune time. And then there are those two prior Stannis ships pirating along the Blackwater. And the food supply from the Reach can become problematic with Ironborn sailing up the rivers into the heart of the Reach. George put all the pieces in play for KL to be blockaded once again.

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

If the Tyrells lose at SE things might change, but then KL itself will turn against Tommen and possibly drag the boy out of the Red Keep to rip him to pieces. KL is a Targaryen city at heart.

I don't think it will happen that fast. But food blockade can certainly help. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×