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U.S. Politics: Trump of the Will


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Obama ran to the right of Hillary on health care in 2008.  Like, really, do you guys not remember this?  I didn't think I was that old:

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We'll confine ourselves to examining the health care claim here. Clinton is correct that her plan is the only one among the presidential candidates to require health care coverage for all Americans. John Edwards was another candidate pushing universal coverage, but with his exit from the race on Jan. 30, 2008, Clinton now stands alone. [...]

At the most recent Democratic debate on Jan. 31, 2008, Obama said he opposed the mandate for logistical reasons. Enforcing a mandate will require some sort of penalty, such as fines, to ensure compliance, he said. "And that, I don't think, is helping those without health insurance," Obama said.

 

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9 hours ago, Paladin of Ice said:

I love the right wing lie that left wing groups aren’t just throwing milkshakes at right wing politicians or figures, but that mixed into the milkshake is quick drying cement so that they can hurt or kill people. (See here for example.)

This ignores, of course, the fact that sugar prevents cement from setting, as a simple google search or having ever worked in construction can tell you. So unless it’s a milkshake with zero sugar, it’s not ever going to turn into cement.

Not that this has stopped the lie from being a right wing meme, or stopped it from being used to further radicalize the Right.

in fairness, the idea behind the bogus claim is that quick-dry cement is caustic, and could cause chemical burns, not that it would set or harden

9 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Nor did it stop the Portland PD from repeating and amplifying the milkshake lie. It's almost like there's a natural alliance between them and racist authoritarians.

oh it’s worse than that, there is a good case to be made that they originated it. afair, there was a si glentweet prior to that that mentioned the possibility of thrown milkshakes as vector for something more dangerous, not sure if it mentioned quik -crete. when pressed on where ppb got the ‘info’ they produced a screenshot of an anonymous email (which i believe came from a alt right sympathizer in the bureau or someone they have a relationship with) 

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11 minutes ago, DMC said:

Obama ran to the right of Hillary on health care in 2008.  Like, really, do you guys not remember this?  I didn't think I was that old:

 

Yeah, I remember that moment in the debate. It was actually one of the reasons I supported Obama. I don't know if I'd call it to the right of Clinton on healthcare though. I certainly didn't see it that way when I was watching it. Other than the mandate disagreement, they sounded pretty similar, but it did help Obama differentiate himself. You could say that he tricked me, in that he later put in the mandate, but I did not care enough to quibble about it by that point.

The mandate was seen as necessary to make the expansion work, but it was kind of the vegetables that you have to eat, and things like the Medicaid expansion and preexisting conditions protection were the sugar. 

No one really questioned Clinton was serious on healthcare, either, though, given her history.

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5 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

I don't know if I'd call it to the right of Clinton on healthcare though.

It was the only substantive difference between the two on the issue.  Point is that he was ever tacitly or somehow covertly a single-payer advocate bears no empirical evidence whatsoever, and is not at all suggested by the facts of his campaign(s) and administration.

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4 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

Many rapes like that with rufies, may be pretty confusing to the victim, who may think they just passed out. The first reaction may not be to get tested for that right away, in fact most rapes are not reported. Even then, they may not be taken seriously.

My niece believes she was rufied, is a police officer in training and did not report.

Which is why I’m always irked when people bemoan false accusations concerning sexual assault  as if that’s the prevalent problem. True, they do happen, but it’s far from the norm and aren’t the problem that needs to be addressed.

5 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

Some people think it’s okay to rape a wife. 

A Slight correction: some people think it’s literally impossible for a husband to rape his wife. Their relationship makes consent the default position no matter what the wife says or does to show she’s not willing to have sex with him so rape isn’t what they call what happened. 

Hell, the woman having shown any sort of affection(no matter how slight) ever to her alleged abuser is often enough to get people to say she couldn’t have been abused.

Side note sorta: I saw the same same sort of rationale to justify Jamie’s rape of Cersi in the show. The fact they had a long-standing romantic relationship, was enough for people to say, her pleas for him to stop, as well her you know showing physical resistance to him wasn’t enough to show the sex had wasn’t consenting-because they had a relationship.

Also, it must be noted yeah it is still legal in some way for people to rape their spouses in a over a dozen states: https://www.apnews.com/3a11fee6d0e449ce81f6c8a50601c687

You could roofie and sexually assault your wife, or while she’s sleeping, and you’re fine legally hell you could get off totally scot free if you agree to counseling in Alabama.

There are many who will look at at complaints about these laws and laugh this off of as Femanazi hysteria, and then take offense at this being used to showcase the idea of America having a rape culture(even though many states literally have laws that legalize objectively some form of it) and demand people only focus on the rape laws Muslim majority countries, or non-white majority countries because if the complainers don’t just do  that they’re anti-white, anti-male, and anti-Christian feminist trash, who only wants to take the fun out of life and how again the problem in America is PC outrage.

 

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39 minutes ago, DMC said:

It was the only substantive difference between the two on the issue.  Point is that he was ever tacitly or somehow covertly a single-payer advocate bears no empirical evidence whatsoever, and is not at all suggested by the facts of his campaign(s) and administration.

True. He won over many liberals without making a lot of concrete promises. And HRC didn't need to get very specific either, given she was the woman that tried to implement universal healthcare.

It was kind of weird cycle. Most Democrat Primaries there is some lefty candidate that then loses to the centrist. Or that is how it used to work. Obama was kind of seen as the most left-leaning choice, fair or not. It likely helped him win.

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5 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Obama was kind of seen as the most left-leaning choice, fair or not. It likely helped him win.

To be clear, he was to the left for the most part, and particularly on the most important issue in the primary - Iraq.

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12 hours ago, TrueMetis said:

I'd say the more important point is that people were drinking them, and there's no evidence of any concrete residue fucking anywhere.

Anyway, in "the US is a fascist state and anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves" news Ted Cruz and Bill Cassidy have sponsored a resolution to designate anfita as a terrorist organization

But it's fine, after interchangeably anfita, anfita affiliated, and left wing activist there an "and also" about white supremacy.

He would have the US designated Anti-fa as a terrorist group before the actual KKK which has literally killed thousands in its history. 

Or the literal self-avowed neo-nazi cells spread across America. 

The reasons given for why those groups are allowed to operate given their history of violence could easily be placed on anti-fa

But I’m sure many of the free-speech warriors who cry out whenever literal white-supremacists are punched or have milkshake poured on them, are outraged at Cruz’s resolution, as surely not every “anti-fa activist, deserves imprisonment anymore than Richard Spencer deserves imprisonment, or any self-Avowed KKK member for the  violent actions of another white supremacist.

Sarcasm.

But, it should be noted this resolution is formatted as it is because it would not be expected to pass because of the makeup in the house.

Once they have back I expect the part about white-supremacists to be conveniently edited out.

 

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also worth noting that the anti fascist action is just a broad term for a movement, and not any sort of organization, which lets to state define these designation however it see fit, keeping the door open for all sorts of unsavory methods to chill and suppress all kinds of speech and demonstrations

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57 minutes ago, a good and nice guy said:

also worth noting that the anti fascist action is just a broad term for a movement, and not any sort of organization, which lets to state define these designation however it see fit, keeping the door open for all sorts of unsavory methods to chill and suppress all kinds of speech and demonstrations

Which is the point. In the resolution Cruz and Cassidy repeatedly references actions taken by left-wing activists against members of ICE without noting any explicit anti-fa connections to speak of. The fact the activists were left-wing, is enough to have lumped in with anti-fa. 

And the resolution first point of declaration just vaguely says: 

“for the groups and organizations
across the country who act under the banner of
KAT19105 S.L.C. 
1 Antifa to be designated as domestic terrorist organizations

Notice they didn’t actually say those who self-identity as Antifa. But just those who “act under the banner.” They’re leaving the door open for a crackdown. A group simply saying they’re working to combat fascism could literally be seen as working under the banner of Antifa because it literally is just sort hand for “anti-fascist”

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50 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Which is the point. In the resolution Cruz and Cassidy repeatedly references actions taken by left-wing activists against members of ICE without noting any explicit anti-fa connections to speak of. The fact the activists were left-wing, is enough to have lumped in with anti-fa. 

And the resolution first point of declaration just vaguely says: 

“for the groups and organizations
across the country who act under the banner of
KAT19105 S.L.C. 
1 Antifa to be designated as domestic terrorist organizations

Notice they didn’t actually say those who self-identity as Antifa. But just those who “act under the banner.” They’re leaving the door open for a crackdown. A group simply saying they’re working to combat fascism could literally be seen as working under the banner of Antifa because it literally is just sort hand for “anti-fascist”

no lawyer, but looking forward to seeing motions similar to satanic temple’s in getting statues of baphomet religious expression freedoms, along the lines of “per these numerous right wing sources claiming antifa stands for ‘anti-first amendment’ we are a completely constitutional, pro free expression movement an as such do not fall under the purview of such illiberal pronouncements” 

eta: will not be fixing fucked up grammar or syntax, deal with it 

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2 hours ago, Triskele said:

Weird how Dems with with a person who committed that sin in 2016 and potentially could again in 2020.

I'm not sure weird is the right adjective.

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Does the change in public opinion on Richard Nixon in 1973 and 1974 tell you much about factionalism or partisanship today, or was that a much different social environment?

KRUSE: If you look at Nixon’s approval ratings, there was a full quarter of the country that still approved of him right through his resignation. There was still 25 percent of the country in his corner even when he left office in disgrace.

There’s a huge chunk of the Republican Party who think Trump will be one of our greatest presidents, and I suppose that’s the same 25 percent who stuck with Nixon.

KRUSE: That’s exactly right. And Trump’s numbers haven’t gone as low as Nixon’s because Trump has something Nixon didn’t have, which is a conservative media ecosystem that dismisses bad stories as fake news, provides counter-narratives, and attacks accusers. Trump said himself that he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and people would stick with him.

 

Trump Is a Symptom of an Age That’s Been a Long Time Coming
What does history’s magic 8-ball say about how we wound up with Donald Trump? Two historians try to supply the context.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-is-a-symptom-of-an-age-thats-been-a-long-time-coming?ref=scroll

 

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Carlos Ramirez, the medical director of a freestanding emergency room run by Rio Grande Regional Hospital, said he regularly sees patients recently released from Border Patrol with advanced coughs, congestion, lung infections, stomach problems, and skin conditions.

Official statements confirm this detention-to-hospital pipeline. In an early April press call, Border Patrol Chief of Operations Brian Hastings said that the agency then sent an average of 63 people per day to get additional medical treatment—which is the highest number it has seen since it began tracking it. A Border Patrol spokesperson didn’t reply to a request for updated information.

Ramirez chalked up migrants’ illness mostly to the “luggage” they bring with them, including a lack of preventive care like vaccines, and the arduous trek. “This is not related to being in a detention center,” he said. “This is because their immune system is not good, because they don’t have the vaccines, because of a bunch of things they don’t have to start with.” But other physicians said that the conditions in the facilities themselves were also to blame. Detainees can’t wash their hands, even after using the bathroom, according to Dolly Lucio Sevier, a local pediatrician who visited Ursula in mid-June. She said this was “tantamount to intentionally causing the spread of disease” in a report she wrote about the visit

 

The Border Patrol–to–Emergency Room Pipeline
The conditions in facilities at the border are so dire that many migrants are in need of medical care as soon as they are released.

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/07/border-crisis-reaches-emergency-rooms/594160/

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20 hours ago, HoodedCrow said:

Yes, but Ormond seemed to be evading the issue on the technical definition of pedophilia. Many people are disgusted with Moore stalking minor girls, who may have been over 14, but may not use the exactly correct DSM definition. It generally means that people without a psychology background still know it’s icky, the girls were. Much too young for him, and it isn’t usually legal anyway. Maybe the right wing will open up the age of consent.

The age doesn't matter as much as the stalking behaviour. That  is what makes guys like this creepy. Double creepy is underage stalking. 

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15 hours ago, a good and nice guy said:

in fairness, the idea behind the bogus claim is that quick-dry cement is caustic, and could cause chemical burns, not that it would set or harden

oh it’s worse than that, there is a good case to be made that they originated it. afair, there was a si glentweet prior to that that mentioned the possibility of thrown milkshakes as vector for something more dangerous, not sure if it mentioned quik -crete. when pressed on where ppb got the ‘info’ they produced a screenshot of an anonymous email (which i believe came from a alt right sympathizer in the bureau or someone they have a relationship with) 

Are they also claiming danger of frostbite due to the milkshake being cold? 

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1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

The Border Patrol–to–Emergency Room Pipeline
The conditions in facilities at the border are so dire that many migrants are in need of medical care as soon as they are released.

https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2019/07/border-crisis-reaches-emergency-rooms/594160/

Gotta say, if any other country was doing this, the US and Europe would be openly condemning it at every opportunity.

And rightly so.

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1 hour ago, maarsen said:

The age doesn't matter as much as the stalking behaviour. That  is what makes guys like this creepy. Double creepy is underage stalking. 

“THE GIRLS WERE JUST SO YOUNG”: THE HORRORS OF JEFFREY EPSTEIN’S PRIVATE ISLAND

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/07/horrors-of-jeffrey-epstein-private-island

He continued to do it, even after his trial.

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Locals say Epstein was flying in underage girls long after his conviction for sex crimes—and authorities did nothing to stop him. “It was like he was flaunting it,” says an employee at the airstrip on St. Thomas. “But it was said that he always tipped really well, so everyone overlooked it.”

Ever since billionaire Jeffrey Epstein was arrested on July 6 on charges of sex trafficking, the media have been scrambling to make sense of what happened on Little St. James, his 70-acre private island in the Caribbean. But on nearby St. Thomas, locals say Epstein continued to bring underage girls to the island as recently as this year—a decade after he was forced to register as a convicted sex offender—and that authorities did nothing to stop him....

 

....The employee adds that he and his co-workers would joke around about what they were seeing. “Every time he landed or took off, it was always brought up. We’d always be joking, ‘How many kids are on board this time?’” But the employee also says he felt “pure disgust,” calling it “absolutely insane” that a convicted sex offender was able to move around so openly in the era of MeToo.

“I could see him with my own eyes,” the employee says. “I compared it to seeing a serial killer in broad daylight. I called it the face of evil.”

Epstein apparently made no attempt to hide his travels with young girls. The airstrip in St. Thomas sits in plain sight of a central highway, and a nearby parking lot at the University of the Virgin Islands provides a complete view of the tarmac and almost every aircraft on the ground. When he’s “home” on Little St. James, Epstein’s plane is always parked right in front of the control tower.

“The fact that young girls were getting out of his helicopter and getting into his plane, it was like he was flaunting it,” the employee says. “But it was said that he always tipped really well, so everyone overlooked it.”....

 

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Sorry for double posting, but this is too good to keep to myself.  Puerto Rico keeps going -- tomorrow they are closing the big highway that takes people to the Mall of America in their ongoing demonstrations to rid themselves of a criminal governor.  Why yes, tvillain, many a US citizen is trying to fix the wreck of their nation and make it better.

Today, some demonstrators are doing this:

 

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