Jump to content

UK Politics: It's Life Pfeffel but not as we know it


HexMachina

Recommended Posts

If you are a Tory MP prepared to vote down the Tory government and support a temporary government backed overwhelmingly by the opposition parties in order to call an election for the purpose of preventing no deal you have to hope, in the end, that the Tories (your party) lose enough seats to be unable to form a government. This presumably means you want the other option to Johnson as PM, namely Corbyn. So refusing to endorse him as a temporary PM, when you need him as a permanent one after the election, in order to stop no deal, makes little to no sense. 

I suppose one election scenario (which is reasonably probable given polling) is one where the Tories stay the largest party but would be unable to govern without the liberals, who presumably would demand Brexit be called off/put to a referendum. A Tory PM could justify this bargain as the price to keep Corbyn and the SNP out of power. Placing Corbyn in number 10 may give him legitimacy and first pick for a coalition partner and make this scenario less likely. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Hi , found your way into the UK thread again, wanting to tell British people what their culture is like? There is a queue.

 I take your post to mean you agree with the idea of any commentary you’ve given on American politics, culture, or figures in the US politics thread should be ignored because you are British. 

Interesting position to take I will admit.

Though, I have to say what I really wanted to do point out the absurdity in your complaints about immigration from Eastern Europe destroying British culture without really giving specifics when called upon to do so.

And remarking(as many have including some in these U.K. threads) that Brexit will inevitably lead to higher amounts of immigrants from countries that have cultures that are far far different than the Eastern Europeans you feel the need to moan about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

 I take your post to mean you agree with the idea of any commentary you’ve given on American politics, culture, or figures in the US politics thread should be ignored because you are British. 

Interesting position to take I will admit.

Nope if you , as not a Brit, want to discuss what you think british culture is specifically, with me, a Brit, as I have in fact given specific examples previously,  then please do PM me with any questions you might have.

 

I ‘look forward ’to hearing from you. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Chaircat Meow said:

If you are a Tory MP prepared to vote down the Tory government and support a temporary government backed overwhelmingly by the opposition parties in order to call an election for the purpose of preventing no deal you have to hope, in the end, that the Tories (your party) lose enough seats to be unable to form a government. This presumably means you want the other option to Johnson as PM, namely Corbyn. So refusing to endorse him as a temporary PM, when you need him as a permanent one after the election, in order to stop no deal, makes little to no sense.  

I suppose one election scenario (which is reasonably probable given polling) is one where the Tories stay the largest party but would be unable to govern without the liberals, who presumably would demand Brexit be called off/put to a referendum. A Tory PM could justify this bargain as the price to keep Corbyn and the SNP out of power. Placing Corbyn in number 10 may give him legitimacy and first pick for a coalition partner and make this scenario less likely. 

 

Possibly. My calculus would be slightly different though. I'd hope on the upcoming Labour party conference to oust Corbyn and replace him with somebody else, literally anybody.

If Corbyn enters the conference as (caretaker) PM this just looks a whole lot less likely, as that position mgiht solidify his position. Of course for that purpose PM Yvette Cooper (or PM keir Starmer, or PM Tom Watson for crying out loud) would be way more helpful than PM Clarke or PM Harman. As the position of PM might give them some more leverage to get Corbyn out.

If it's PM Clarke or Harman the argument could still be made, that Corbyn is simply unable to unite MPs behind to become Primeminister himself, and that Labour will need the cooperation of other parties to form a goverment. But like I said, that argumetn would carry much more weight if it was delivered by PM Cooper.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Nope if you , as not a Brit, want to discuss what you think british culture is specifically, with me, a Brit, as I have in fact given specific examples previously,  then please do PM me with any questions you might have.

 

I ‘look forward ’to hearing from you. 

Did you? My recollection was you ignored when people asked what you meant by British culture. If i’m wrong, misremembering or overlooked your response i apologise but that is how i thought it went

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Did you? My recollection was you ignored when people asked what you meant by British culture. If i’m wrong, misremembering or overlooked your response i apologise but that is how i thought it went

Nope, I replied to it. Understandable if you missed it:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Nope if you , as not a Brit, want to discuss what you think british culture is specifically, with me, a Brit, as I have in fact given specific examples previously,  then please do PM me with any questions you might have.

 

I ‘look forward ’to hearing from you. 

No you didn’t. Mostly when asked to actually describe it you get mad, accuse the questioner of being wrong to ask such a question(you wouldn’t ask a Frenchman to describe his culture or some such nonsense) and proceed to never really answer the question. You haven’t given specifics in terms of how Eastern Europeans are destroying British culture. Just vague invocations that they’re mere presence is doing just that.  If you can actually can give meaningful specifics on this please, do so, right here-I see no reason why I should come to you and ask the same question in private.

13 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Did you? My recollection was you ignored when people asked what you meant by British culture. If i’m wrong, misremembering or overlooked your response i apologise but that is how i thought it went

It looked that way to me too. But I’m just an ignorant Yank.  Please, HOI give specifics on what you think British culture is once and for all and see how it stacks up to the scrutiny of other British people in this thread. What significant traits or values integral to British culture are under threat from those dirty Eastern Europeans? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Would it be too much trouble to ask you to repeat your answer then please?

No. If you wanna dig through the old posts you can go read what I said. I can’t be bothered to repeat it and it doesn’t really serve a ton of relevance except to fuel a bunch of trolls who aren’t British coming into this thread.

If you wanna PM me to discuss then go ahead otherwise I’m kinda done on that and not being drawn into it

Same answer goes to the troll above you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

@Heartofice also tried to sell us on the idea that mere accusations of racism are ending people's careers left and right, and when pressed for examples, could only come up with Roseanne Barr, who was fired for dozens of deranged tweets that her bosses had asked her to stop posting.

Then he tried to claim that people are being thrown into prison for jokes, when it was one guy who got fined.

Then he tried to claim that someone getting arrested for making a joke about bombing an airport was an indicator that liberal outrage culture has gone too far, when it's exactly how airport security has worked for twenty years.

HoI can't make honest arguments. He has a Trumpian grasp of reality.

Hi troll number 3. If you want to finish our conversation please do feel free to PM me as I simply cannot really ever be bothered to reply to your host of lies, mis truths and  strawmen. If you genuinely wanted to discuss any of these issues you can directly, otherwise I’ll take it that your main modus operandi is just your usual behaviour of mean spiritedly and cowardly dog piling. This crap is taking up far too much this thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Jousting with your exaggerations and bullshit claims  seems to be half of the posts on this thread. I've posted like twice about you. Get over yourself. I've destroyed your arguments within the thread each time it comes up, but you shut down and flee rather than continue, so please don't try to pretend you're in here arguing in good faith. If multiple people are telling you you're full of shit and all you can do is call us trolls, it says a lot more about you than the other people. You can't even show us those posts where you say what you think British culture is, but I can happily link each of the times you got caught fabricating bullshit claims to sell the idea that liberals are out of control.

Yep. Sure. Didn’t think you’d wanna tall in private where you can’t just hurl crap and run away.

Id ask the mods to delete all this as it’s totally irrelevant. But again if you wanna chat. Feel free

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

If he doesn't then they just hold another VONC and Corbyn's time as PM is over very quickly. The remain / soft Brexit Cons have the balance of power.

Corbyn as caretaker Prime Minister is not a good idea.  Jo Swinson is right.  We need to unify around opposition to No-Deal Brexit and making this a Jeremy v. Boris,  Labour v. Tory debate plays into BoJo's hands.  It forces Tory MPs who oppose No-Deal Brexit to choose between their principles and their party. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

No. If you wanna dig through the old posts you can go read what I said. I can’t be bothered to repeat it and it doesn’t really serve a ton of relevance except to fuel a bunch of trolls who aren’t British coming into this thread.

If you wanna PM me to discuss then go ahead otherwise I’m kinda done on that and not being drawn into it

Same answer goes to the troll above you.

Complain about Eastern Europeans ruining things? Check. Get mad at the mere question being asked to define British culture in a U.K politics thread even though “protecting” British is the main justification for leaving the E.U and one of the main reasons you give for it? Check. Proceed to not define BrItish culture and get into detail on how those dirty Eastern Europeans are ruining it? Also check. Get mad at Americans for daring participate in a U.K. politics thread even if they’re just raising the same points/questions  other U.K. posters have raised before against your stance? Check. 

A predictable but still disappointing response from you.

I’ll be honest I don’t think you can give an answer to any of the questions given to you now anymore than you could in the past. 

I see no point in PMing on this because because public statements should at most times be defended publicly, when questioned about them.

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Yep. Sure. Didn’t think you’d wanna tall in private where you can’t just hurl crap and run away.

Id ask the mods to delete all this as it’s totally irrelevant. But again if you wanna chat. Feel free

 Lol what? You could just as easily run away after making a seemingly controversial  statement in a private conversation on here as you could on a public thread. This is a really lame excuse to refuse to answer the questions here. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

Jousting with your exaggerations and bullshit claims  seems to be half of the posts on this thread. I've posted like twice about you. Get over yourself. I've destroyed your arguments within the thread each time it comes up, but you shut down and flee rather than continue, so please don't try to pretend you're in here arguing in good faith. If multiple people are telling you you're full of shit and all you can do is call us trolls, it says a lot more about you than the other people. You can't even show us those posts where you say what you think British culture is, but I can happily link each of the times you got caught fabricating bullshit claims to sell the idea that liberals are out of control.

I always abide by the saying that if you meet one a-hole in the morning, you’ve just met one. If you meet another in the afternoon, now you’ve met two. If you meet another in the evening, chances are you’re the a-hole.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Corbyn as caretaker Prime Minister is not a good idea.  Jo Swinson is right.  We need to unify around opposition to No-Deal Brexit and making this a Jeremy v. Boris,  Labour v. Tory debate plays into BoJo's hands.  It forces Tory MPs who oppose No-Deal Brexit to choose between their principles and their party. 

 

 

There are really only 2 ways of choosing a caretaker PM in a new coalition (it won't be a GONU if the Tories as a whole don't join, which they won't): leader of the party making up the largest % of the coalition; popular vote among all MPs making up the coalition.

One assumes only the rebel conservative MPs (who will probably be booted from the party as soon as they sign on to a new coalition) will join and not the whole conservative party, so Labour will be the biggest party in the coalition. In [nearly?] every coalition arrangement ever the leader of the largest party in the coalition becomes PM. To do otherwise is riding roughshod over political convention for the sake of appeasement. But if the agreement was to elect from among all the MPs, each party would nominate a candidate, and one assumes Corbyn would be the Labour nominee as would the leader of all the other parties, and someone nominated from the rebel Tories. If Corbyn didn;t win that vote there would be bloody hell to pay in the Labour party, because about ~75 Labour MPs would have to vote for someone else and all the minor members of the coalition would have to vote for that same person.

There is no good way for someone other than Corbyn to be caretaker PM that doesn't involve some kind of coup or destructive betrayal, unless Corbyn himself takes himself out of the running but if he does that he might as well resign as leader of Labour and never have a shot at being PM again. The deputy PM however should be one of the rebel Cons, if there really is 20 of them, even though SNP is likely to be the 2nd largest party in the coalition, it probably wouldn't be good for a party with separatist views to have the #2 position in the govt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Then he tried to claim that someone getting arrested for making a joke about bombing an airport was an indicator that liberal outrage culture has gone too far, when it's exactly how airport security has worked for twenty years.

Airport security this century is absolutely ludicrous, but there's nothing liberal about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, felice said:

Airport security this century is absolutely ludicrous, but there's nothing liberal about it.

Fully agree. Airport security is security theater that exists mostly to soothe dim authoritarians. And yet someone getting arrested for an airport bombing joke is what @Heartofice considers to be an example of how liberal oversensitivity has ruined everything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...