UK Politics: It's Life Pfeffel but not as we know it

[BigFatCoward]

13 hours ago, Safiya said:

I'd take Clarke but not over Corbyn, Corbyn is the only one who could start reversing the vileness that is the UK at the present moment.

I admire a lot of Corbyn's ideas. I think he has principles. But if you cant get elected what does it matter? He should stand down on the understanding whoever takes over listens to him and has an agenda that is true to the principles of the labour party, getting to whisper in their ear as a respected ex leader and elder of the party.  Standing down for the good of the party and the country is the best way he can generate a legacy. 

[Safiya]

14 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Not sure if trolling or seriousness statement.

Corbyn is a polarizing figure. He just is, that's not up for discussion. Either you are part of that cult of true believers, that have taken over the Labour party, then you think Corbyn is like Jesus, with sole difference that Jesus was a jew, and the Labour under his leadership seemingly has some issues with that group. Yes, cheap shot, however the anti-semitism bit is a constant theme for Labour under his leadership. And he has not looked to good dealing with it. Then we have his non-existent BRexit policy, taht has alienated leavers and remainers alike (in that sense he is a truely unifying force). The list probably goes on for a bit. The sooner Labour manages to oust him again, the better.

NoT sUre iF TrollllliNG oR SerIOusnESSSS STATeMenT haha.  Come up with something original please lol.  Were you born an extremist?  Incapable of having normal conversations? Guess what if you want to be taken seriously don't start with being a prick.  No-one cares if you think Corbyn is a polarizing figure, every single Tory is a polarizing figure as well.  The rest of your post is almost hilarious to behold, people like Corbyn will one day be voted in and voted out being replaced by other normal human beings rather than insane selfish dishonest people, that's the future when you are long gone.

  This anti-semitism bullshit cooked up by extremist like you is a desperate attempt to make something of criticism of Israel, not Jewish people.  I personally think Israel has a right to exist but also so do the Palestinians, this is the normal position, what needs to be done is to get the extremists out and reform as many of them as possible.  This is the thing, selfish solipsistic narcissistic people are an evolutionary dead-end, we have had near 30 very close calls where everything could have ended in nuclear war.  You might think you're moderate you're anything but, you're an extremist.

If you missed what I said in the post you hilariously ineptly replied too I'd have Clarke as a Caretaker PM because he has shown to not be as extremist as people as yourself, he has changed over the years much like Portillo, Clarke dissuaded Thatcher from bringing in Health Insurance that alone proves he is worth talking too.

 

[Safiya]

14 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

I'm missing something here. 

I'd be interested to hear what you understand to be vile about the UK, and what Corbyn would do to reverse it.  

The infestation by a fake 'elite' called the Private school social network, who believe completely in socialism.... for themselves.  Now you tell me how this is a fair and beautiful country?  I'll be waiting a long while I know.

[Safiya]

11 hours ago, felice said:

Corbyn is probably less awful than most of the alternatives in most respects, but he's absolutely not the right person for the present moment. Right now, what the UK needs more than anything else is someone who recognises what a disaster Brexit is and is willing to put Remain back on the table.

Boris Johnson has already seen the damage caused by his rash decision-making. He’s boxed himself in by refusing to talk to European leaders until they ditch the backstop; he’s been slapped down by Nicola Sturgeon and learned that his stance is boosting the cause of Scottish independence; he faced angry Welsh farmers whose livelihood is threatened by no-deal tariffs; and he went to Northern Ireland, where he’s been told that the peace process is at risk. And in Brecon and Radnorshire he tasted defeat after just a week in office, losing an 8,000 majority. Far from rallying supporters, his Brexit stance has just piled up his problems. He can’t even rely on the party’s hardcore Brexiteers to support any deal he might achieve with Europe.

Corbyn meanwhile has said he wants to remain and reform the EU, this can be achieved through a Labour renegotiation.

[Safiya]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

I admire a lot of Corbyn's ideas. I think he has principles. But if you cant get elected what does it matter? He should stand down on the understanding whoever takes over listens to him and has an agenda that is true to the principles of the labour party, getting to whisper in their ear as a respected ex leader and elder of the party.  Standing down for the good of the party and the country is the best way he can generate a legacy. 

Once someone else comes forward worthy I agree.

[A wilding]

@Safiya Hmm

Most British people would probably agree with you that the current generation of Tories are obnoxious. You only have to look at recent opinion polls and election results. There is also widespread agreement that their austerity programme was purely ideologically based and that it has been a disaster for large swathes of the country.

But that does not automatically make Corbyn the answer. It certainly does not mean that a majority of British people think he is the answer - again look at recent opinion polls and election results. And public opinion here is all the more important, given that Corbyn is wedded to the two party system of his younger days (we see repeatedly his demands for special status as leader of the official opposition). In that context, the fact that he is failing to pick up the support that the Tories have justly lost ought to give him pause. At best his team appear to think that people will ultimately be forced to vote for his Labour as the slightly less bad alternative.

Also Brexit cannot be left out of this. Most Remainers are convinced (rightly or wrongly) that the economic impact on the UK will be huge, basically that the country would be locked into a long term austerity at least as bad as that of the last nine years, one that could not be swept away by simply electing a government that stops favouring the 0.1% so outrageously. For these people the fact that Corbyn does not get this is a massive red flag (no pun intended) that disqualifies him from office.

As for:

2 hours ago, Safiya said:

This anti-semitism bullshit cooked up by extremist like you is a desperate attempt to make something of criticism of Israel, not Jewish people. 

This sort of shrill line really does not help Corbyn's cause. Yes many people would agree that Israel has taken a dark path and that the the Palestinians are getting a raw deal. Corbyn's personal views on this are not too extreme. However, most dispassionate people looking at the facts would say that the Labour party does have an issue with anti-semitism at the moment, it is not just about people being pro Palestinian and anti Israel.

The sad thing is that competent leadership would have dealt with this and made it a non issue long ago. Instead we get things like Corbyn's office interfering with investigations while denying they are doing so, cancelling and then reinstalling disciplinary actions, denouncing people pointing out the problem and so forth. (Incidentally that last one raises the hackles of people old enough to remember the old days of the Hard Left, where the only virtue was exact following of the Party line on everything, and anyone who deviated was called a traitor and considered worse than anyone on the Right.)

Liked the subtle references to historical inevitability though 

[The Anti-Targ]

22 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

There is one point that I had previously neglected and cuts in the pro-Corbyn favor: pro-Brexit MPs in the Labour Party who would vote for no-confidence but would not vote to block No-Deal Brexit.  The important question is which potential coalition is bigger and has a better chance of success: the coalition to make Corbyn PM (which to be fair has adherents outside the Labour Party), or the coalition for VONC for Ken Clarke or Harriet Harman or legislative blocking of Brexit. 

It makes no sense for Labour MPS who actually would try to prevent the blocking of no-deal to vote in favour of the VONC. If you vote for the VONC you are at least delaying no-deal for several months. I dunno, maybe they foolishly want to find themselves in charge when no-deal happens, so they will vote to have no-deal delayed until there is a GE and hopefully Labour will be in power when the shit hits the fan? That sounds a bit like a wet dream for the the Conservative party. The Tory incompetence at every step of the way lead to this no-deal debacle, but the party responsible in the end for fairly to prevent no-deal would be Labour. Tories would be laughing 'til they puke if that ended up happening.

19 hours ago, A wilding said:

On the caretaker PM plan:

Personally I think Corbyn has once again displayed his lack of political nous. I am reminded of when May decided to be flexible about Brexit, and so called a meeting with other party leaders to lecture them about how they had to be flexible by doing exactly what she told them. Corbyn almost managed to make it a story about himself instead, by flouncing out of the meeting on a technicality before it started.

The centre grouping of MPs sees the possibility of a no deal Brexit as an existential crisis, a reason to take extraordinary and unprecedented actions such as electing a caretaker PM whose only actions will be to immediately ask the EU for another extension and then call an election.

For Corbyn it is all about getting the Tories out of power and getting himself into No 10. He gives the impression of being quite relaxed about a no deal Brexit, especially if he can escape blame for it. He thinks he is just playing the normal game of two party politics, hence his standing on his rights as leader of the Opposition.

That being so, it is obviously that much harder for left wing Tories to support a VoNC. Indeed, given Corbyn's de-emphasis of Brexit, and his long standing dissembling of his pro-Brexit views, why should they even trust him not to decide on some last minute change of direction once he is installed? Especially as he seems not to care too much if their caretaker PM plan fails, and may even have made his offer just to scupper it?

 

That doesn't make much sense either. Corbyn only gets to be PM because 3 other parties + several Tory MPs would be willing to let him be PM to carry out the thing he explicitly said he'd do in a letter and in a public announcement. He'd be gone before the day is over if he reneged. It's some weird arsed convoluted game he'd be playing if to all observers, if Labour sat back and did nothing for the next few months there would be a no-deal Brexit. Yet the suggestion is Corbyn would lie through his teeth to get a VONC passed to make him PM, and then instead of doing what he explicitly said he would he'd just wait and let 31 Oct come along and have no-Deal Brexit happen anyway, which would be the end of his political career.

People who would let no-deal Brexit happen because the Labour leader insists that a post VONC coalition have the Labour Leader as PM, because it is by far the biggest faction in the coalition and it is standard practice for all coalition arrangements, deserve to have no-deal Brexit fall down upon them.

What he said, petty and political.

[The Anti-Targ]

16 hours ago, felice said:

Corbyn is probably less awful than most of the alternatives in most respects, but he's absolutely not the right person for the present moment. Right now, what the UK needs more than anything else is someone who recognises what a disaster Brexit is and is willing to put Remain back on the table.

Officially he has. A people's vote with remain included. What else do you want? Anything more than that is to make Remain the only option. There is no way parliament can vote to remain at this point. That's got to be the result of a referendum, or a GE where remain / Brexit is a clear campaign platform of each party. Parliament can vote to revoke Art 50 to stop the ongoing requests for extension, but it would have to still put forward a timetable for re-invoking it otherwise there will be blood in the streets. There might still be blood in the streets with another referendum, but at least it won't be 325+1 MPs who made the decision.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

6 hours ago, Safiya said:

  This anti-semitism bullshit cooked up by extremist like you is a desperate attempt to make something of criticism of Israel, not Jewish people.  I personally think Israel has a right to exist but also so do the Palestinians, this is the normal position, what needs to be done is to get the extremists out and reform as many of them as possible.  This is the thing, selfish solipsistic narcissistic people are an evolutionary dead-end, we have had near 30 very close calls where everything could have ended in nuclear war.  You might think you're moderate you're anything but, you're an extremist.

Ok, trolling it is. Thanks for answering tho.

Let's have a look at this paragraph.

The anti-semitism bit being cooked up by extremist like sincerely yours. I'll leave the extremist bit out, as in that's for others to judge, and not bothered enough to get into a pissing contest over it. Second sentence. That is a somewhat reasonable position to take, altho worded like it was posted by a teen who found the keys to daddy's booze locker. I mean the philosophical rant about the evolutionary dead end and 30 close calls wrt nuclear war. Not sure how this is in any shape or form related to Jeremy Corbyn being shit as leader of the Labour party, and thus simply not being a particularly good politician; I am even less sure how that is related to me being an extremist or moderate or whatever. If you were suggesting I could've started a nuclear war at some point in the past, if I had just tried hard enough, then I promise to try harder in the future.

6 hours ago, Safiya said:

people like Corbyn will one day be voted in and voted out being replaced by other normal human beings rather than insane selfish dishonest people, that's the future when you are long gone. 

Not sure who are people like Corbyn, as we are right now only talking about Corbyn himself. We can clearly see the Tory party having turned from a conservative party to a burning a right wing clown car within the span of a few years. I am not sure that our resident Tories will disagree with that describtion. However, while the Tory clown car is now driven by the biggest ass clown they could find, you just have to look at Labour's more recent election results and the opinion polls to see how bad Corbyn is at his job as Labour leader. But then again, going by the incoherent rant that was the rest of your post, I suspect you might have drunk a bit too much from the JC Kool Aid. For the record (not that it matters) I suspect I might outlive Corbyn by a few decades. Corbyn is/has not exactly acted selfless for the past couple of years. With the vast majority of his party (80% I think?) pushing for a second referendum a strong remain message, the dear Leader has decided, that he is only willing to listen to the membership, when it suits his political beliefs. For the many, not the few, unless the many have a different opinion.

2 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Officially he has. A people's vote with remain included. What else do you want? Anything more than that is to make Remain the only option. There is no way parliament can vote to remain at this point. That's got to be the result of a referendum, or a GE where remain / Brexit is a clear campaign platform of each party. Parliament can vote to revoke Art 50 to stop the ongoing requests for extension, but it would have to still put forward a timetable for re-invoking it otherwise there will be blood in the streets. There might still be blood in the streets with another referendum, but at least it won't be 325+1 MPs who made the decision. 

Not really. He wants to put a Tory Brexit before the people for a referendum again. As for a Labour Brexit, there his position is still less clear. Of course, the WA not getting renegotiated renders that fine distinction in his second referendum bit meaningless. However, when he was pressed whether he would campaign for remain during (theoretical) second referendum his response was again the typical fudge. That's for the party membership to decide. So his commitment to a second referendum to remain is not as strong as people hope.

General note, I am not sure how anybody can describe him as principled after having witnessed him doing three years of fence sitting and avoiding to take a concrete position.

[Jen'ari]

Personally I’d be quite in favour of Clarke being PM over either Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn.

[Safiya]

54 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

AHNS spews extremist gibberish again

So you're saying again I'm trolling for literally just saying Jeremy Corbyn should be the Caretaker Prime minister based on Labour getting last GE 40% of the vote and the Con-artists getting 42.3%?  haha yes of course I'm the troll of course of course, not you with your reugnant hilarious post which you've followed up with another lol.  I'm not wasting my time reading what is quite frankly extremist rightwing crap, the 'ideas' that rattle around in you, if you can call them that, you stole while reading the Daily Fail written by an adult baby. 

For anyone normal what's interesting is how much of that percentage the Con-artists got is through the creation of fake IDs, voting for people who never vote and electoral ballot subterfuge? 

[A wilding]

I see Jeremy Corbyn as a person of principles and ideals (whatever one thinks of them). He lives his life by them and is totally unwilling to compromise on them, to an extent that clearly weakens his ability to be an effective politician. Stopping Brexit is clearly not one of his principles or ideals - so I personally don't think his fence sitting and avoiding this issue is any contradiction.

I could easily see a scenario where Corbyn deviated from an agreed Stop No Deal Brexit plan because he got hung up on one of his principles. Who knows, maybe the EU only offer an extension on some condition he feels personally unable to sign up to?

Obviously the grouping that voted him in would be able to VoNC him at will. Except that by now it really would be one minute to midnight and doing so would probably make No Deal Brexit inevitable. So in fact he would have them over a barrel.

Then there is that word "coalition". That is want Corbyn wants, to lead a coalition. But the centre group does not want to be in any coalition led by him. What they want is to perform an unprecedented once off manoeuvre to stop BS Johnson from bypassing the will of parliament. Corbyn's insistence on that term shows the difference in viewpoint between them and I can see how it would make then uneasy.

 

@Safiya You are new here. So just to let you know that on this board posters are generally expected to manage something a little better than just content light, angry, insult laden rants.

 

[Safiya]

 

5 hours ago, A wilding said:

@Safiya Hmm

Most British people would probably agree with you that the current generation of Tories are obnoxious. You only have to look at recent opinion polls and election results. There is also widespread agreement that their austerity programme was purely ideologically based and that it has been a disaster for large swathes of the country.But that does not automatically make Corbyn the answer. It certainly does not mean that a majority of British people think he is the answer - again look at recent opinion polls and election results. And public opinion here is all the more important, given that Corbyn is wedded to the two party system of his younger days (we see repeatedly his demands for special status as leader of the official opposition). In that context, the fact that he is failing to pick up the support that the Tories have justly lost ought to give him pause.

How wrong can you be?  Labour received 40% of the vote and the Cons 42.3%, this says how electoral boundaries are rigged by the Cons to favour the Cons.

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At best his team appear to think that people will ultimately be forced to vote for his Labour as the slightly less bad alternative.

No, and no-one believes this.

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Also Brexit cannot be left out of this. Most Remainers are convinced (rightly or wrongly) that the economic impact on the UK will be huge, basically that the country would be locked into a long term austerity at least as bad as that of the last nine years, one that could not be swept away by simply electing a government that stops favouring the 0.1% so outrageously. For these people the fact that Corbyn does not get this is a massive red flag (no pun intended) that disqualifies him from office.

How does Corbyn not get the 0.1% who have the Private School Social Network as their servants, not get this?  He's against Central Bank it's the main reason why he wants to reform the EU.  He also knows a no-deal will allow the US and their Central Banking system to move in on the UK, which is why he is for re negotiating with the EU.

As for:

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This sort of shrill line really does not help Corbyn's cause. Yes many people would agree that Israel has taken a dark path and that the the Palestinians are getting a raw deal. Corbyn's personal views on this are not too extreme. However, most dispassionate people looking at the facts would say that the Labour party does have an issue with anti-semitism at the moment, it is not just about people being pro Palestinian and anti Israel.

Nah, you're regurgitating something from the Daily Fail.  Most people don't see Labour as being anti-Semitic again I'm repeating most Labour criticism is of Israel and not of Jewish people, why you call that shrill, nothing shrill about it lol.  Yours is the shrillest reply to an evisceration of a troll. Most people do see many Tories as being bigots etc, they just cover it up and put the nicest face out there, behind the scenes they're still there.  What is interesting though is many of the new Tories will actually not be bigots of one shape or form though they will be selfish, there is a lot of conflict which being tapped into the money supply is the only thing stopping complete disintegration of the Tory party.

 

 

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denying they are doing so, cancelling and then reinstalling disciplinary actions, denouncing people pointing out the problem and so forth. (Incidentally that last one raises the hackles of people old enough to remember the old days of the Hard Left, where the only virtue was exact following of the Party line on everything, and anyone who deviated was called a traitor and considered worse than anyone on the Right.)

Can you give the examples of anti-semitism in the Labour party because what you're giving me is nothing.  I personally completely advocate for direct democracy, but I'll support certain politicians, and denounce certain political parties and politicians.

 

 

 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

1 hour ago, A wilding said:

I see Jeremy Corbyn as a person of principles and ideals (whatever one thinks of them). He lives his life by them and is totally unwilling to compromise on them, to an extent that clearly weakens his ability to be an effective politician. Stopping Brexit is clearly not one of his principles or ideals - so I personally don't think his fence sitting and avoiding this issue is any contradiction.

Then the principled thing would be to say "Brexit means Brexit" to borrow from the have been PM, and step down as party chair, if the party is so overwhelmingly against it. Instead he (well more the momentum activists) had the stronger remain/second referendum motion fudged to that laughable degree, that has turned Labour's Brexit position into that undefinable mess. So I don't think there's a whole lot of a principle position or personal integrity in it. That's of course my view on things.

Of course I also blame people like Keir Starmer for it, that they put up with that fudged nonsense.

[A wilding]

@Safiya Better, so I will address what points you make.

2 hours ago, Safiya said:

How wrong can you be?  Labour received 40% of the vote and the Cons 42.3%, this says how electoral boundaries are rigged by the Cons to favour the Cons. 

So at the general election some time ago, before a lot of the recent events, about 13 million people voted Tory, another 13 million Labour, while about 25 million voted for other parties or not at all. Given our first past the post system, is that really proof that neither the current Tory party nor the current Labour party are disliked by wide swathes of the electorate?

As to your unsupported claim of Tory gerrymandering I am not clear how that is relevant, other than as an indication that you also favour the idea that our first past the post system has a distorting effect.

However, I was of course referring to more recent electoral results in my post, notably the last set of council elections in which both Labour and the Tories got only 28% of the vote.

 

2 hours ago, Safiya said:

How does Corbyn not get the 0.1% who have the Private School Social Network as their servants, not get this?  He's against Central Bank it's the main reason why he wants to reform the EU.  He also knows a no-deal will allow the US and their Central Banking system to move in on the UK, which is why he is for re negotiating with the EU.

I was explaining why the 16 million people who voted Remain might not trust Corbyn to understand their concerns. That is nothing to do with whether they would trust Corbyn to try to rein in the 0.1%. Private schools and central banks have nothing to do with that either.

If Corbyn wants to reform the EU, then leaving it is a strange way to go about it! He certainly has made no practical proposals for reform that I have heard. (And given that the UK did not adopt the Euro it is relatively insulated from the EU Central Bank anyway.)

 

2 hours ago, Safiya said:

Can you give the examples of anti-semitism in the Labour party because what you're giving me is nothing.  I personally completely advocate for direct democracy, but I'll support certain politicians, and denounce certain political parties and politicians.

You literally wrote this under a post in which I quoted examples! I said:

9 hours ago, A wilding said:

The sad thing is that competent leadership would have dealt with this and made it a non issue long ago. Instead we get things like Corbyn's office interfering with investigations while denying they are doing so, cancelling and then reinstalling disciplinary actions, denouncing people pointing out the problem and so forth.

None of that is controversial, if you really want chapter and verse you could start with the BBC:

A guide to Labour Party anti-Semitism claims

(Unless you were just asking for examples of anti-semitics in the Labour party, in which case that link will give you examples of people in the party who have actually been disciplined for it.)

 

P.S. Though thanks for describing me as "regurgitating from the Daily Fail" - Mrs W had a good laugh at that.

 

[A wilding]

1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Then the principled thing would be to say "Brexit means Brexit" to borrow from the have been PM, and step down as party chair, if the party is so overwhelmingly against it. Instead he (well more the momentum activists) had the stronger remain/second referendum motion fudged to that laughable degree, that has turned Labour's Brexit position into that undefinable mess. So I don't think there's a whole lot of a principle position or personal integrity in it. That's of course my view on things.

Of course I also blame people like Keir Starmer for it, that they put up with that fudged nonsense.

Oh, his principles certainly don't include any requirement to bow to majority opinions when he disagrees with them. Certainly not when that majority are against something he does regard as a principle ...

Hence concerns about whether he can be trusted as a Stop No Brexit caretaker PM.

[BigFatCoward]

Owen Jones  got a hiding. Not sure that surprises me in the slightest. We are heading into very dark times and I dont know how we come back from it.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

37 minutes ago, A wilding said:

Oh, his principles certainly don't include any requirement to bow to majority opinions when he disagrees with them. Certainly not when that majority are against something he does regard as a principle ...

Hence concerns about whether he can be trusted as a Stop No Brexit caretaker PM.

Yes, but then again, he also went on about listening to what the membership wants and adopting that policy. ANd htere's really nothing left of that once nobla idea.

[Heartofice]

11 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Owen Jones  got a hiding. Not sure that surprises me in the slightest. We are heading into very dark times and I dont know how we come back from it.

I really dislike Jones , I disagree with pretty much everything he says. But he certainly didn't deserve this and its absolutely disgusting that this should happen to him. Its sickening in fact.

[Safiya]

15 hours ago, A wilding said:

So at the general election some time ago, before a lot of the recent events, about 13 million people voted Tory, another 13 million Labour, while about 25 million voted for other parties or not at all. Given our first past the post system, is that really proof that neither the current Tory party nor the current Labour party are disliked by wide swathes of the electorate?

 

First the GE is what counts, you said Corbyn was unpopular because of how people have voted in the past, he's anything but unpopular.

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As to your unsupported claim of Tory gerrymandering I am not clear how that is relevant, other than as an indication that you also favour the idea that our first past the post system has a distorting effect.

Well it's supported by the proven gross gerrymandering of boundary constituencies in favour of the Con, so the creation of fake identities etc is nothing.  And considering the prevalence of Cons in the 'intelligence' services what I outlined is just a fact.  For the record they listen into my online conversations I have been a strident opposer of the Con Oligarchy, I have had attempts on my family's lives, I have had Cons try to smear me.  This is the real world, I'm telling you this on the chance you're in th same position as the alt-right, you might be older or you might be of that generation either way people of the right have seen what the Con Oligarchy thinks of them, the enemy.  The Con Oligarchy consists of the Private School social Network owned by very old families and some very intelligent utterly psychopathic individuals.

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However, I was of course referring to more recent electoral results in my post, notably the last set of council elections in which both Labour and the Tories got only 28% of the vote.

This is because a mixed direct democracy/representative system is the only true democracy.  Pure representative and pure direct democracy are rife with more corruption.

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I was explaining why the 16 million people who voted Remain might not trust Corbyn to understand their concerns. That is nothing to do with whether they would trust Corbyn to try to rein in the 0.1%. Private schools and central banks have nothing to do with that either.

You didn't explain how they wouldn't trust Corbyn?  It's the opposite most people will say the EU needs reforming.  Corbyn's position on the EU is based on criticizing the the EU Central Bank requirement of the abandonment of the useful option of national devaluations. The alternative to reducing a currency’s value is to adjust the economy to competitive pressures—in practice, that typically means wage reductions. So to preserve the value of the Euro requires wage reduction which even if we haven't adopted the Euro we still receive pressure to reduce wages as we are part of the EU.

That is Corbyn's position and why most who voted for Remain want the EU reformed.  There's going to be some who don't understand what the Central Banking system is.

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If Corbyn wants to reform the EU, then leaving it is a strange way to go about it! He certainly has made no practical proposals for reform that I have heard. (And given that the UK did not adopt the Euro it is relatively insulated from the EU Central Bank anyway.)

He's literally said he wants the EU reformed, and as part of the EU we have felt HUGE pressure to reduce wages to keep the value of the Euro high.

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You literally wrote this under a post in which I quoted examples! I said:

None of that is controversial, if you really want chapter and verse you could start with the BBC:

A guide to Labour Party anti-Semitism claims

(Unless you were just asking for examples of anti-semitics in the Labour party, in which case that link will give you examples of people in the party who have actually been disciplined for it.)

 

I want you to give examples I have read that guide myself, too say I found it a hilarious read is an understatement, come on give me your examples, I saw what 1 or 2 lol, and the '800' 'complaints' of compltely non subtsance, let me think couldn't be a smear campaign by the 'intelligence' side of the Con now could it?  Yeah it could because that's exactly what it is.

 

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P.S. Though thanks for describing me as "regurgitating from the Daily Fail" - Mrs W had a good laugh at that.

I'm seeing a complete naivety, or you're playing a game concerning Corbyn and especially concerning anti-semitisim, the Con have tried desperately to smear him with anti-semitism.

Regarding the Oligarchy, the Con system, you've probably come to the hard realization you're not in their group much like the alt-right.