UK Politics: It's Life Pfeffel but not as we know it

[Maithanet]

7 minutes ago, Werthead said:

The courts (in Scotland, as they are still in session) are currently debating whether this requirement makes prorogation for anything less than one week illegal.

Thanks for your response Wert.  On the sentence above, do you mean "prorogation for anything more than one week illegal"?  Because if not, I really don't understand. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Dunt's analysis.

Yes, he's still my usual go-to guy, when it comes to roughly understanding what's happening.

Short version. It's not as bad as it looks. It just adds pressure/a sense of urgency on MPs to get their act together quick, as the Goverment just effectively limited their available time further. So it's basically put up or shut up for them, esp. for the Tory rebels. Even the Queen speech can apparently be amended.

Correct me if I am wrong, given Bercow's previous ruling of not the same motion to be allowed being put forward in the same session the WA/Cooper-Letwin and all the motions that failed at the beginning of the year are available to be voted on once again (new parliamentary session). 

So there are ways to avoid no-deal.

[The Marquis de Leech]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

There is also a current legal requirement for the government to report to Parliament once per week on the efforts to return local governance to Northern Ireland until the end of the year. The courts (in Scotland, as they are still in session) are currently debating whether this requirement makes prorogation for anything less than one week illegal.

I'd be very sceptical if the courts intervene here - it'd be tapdancing on the principle of comity between Parliament and the Judiciary. Most likely they'll conclude that the requirement only applies while Parliament is sitting, since it makes no sense otherwise.

Anyway, this episode is bringing back memories of the Canadian nonsense a decade ago, when Stephen Harper pulled a similar stunt to avoid a VONC.

[maarsen]

29 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

I'd be very sceptical if the courts intervene here - it'd be tapdancing on the principle of comity between Parliament and the Judiciary. Most likely they'll conclude that the requirement only applies while Parliament is sitting, since it makes no sense otherwise.

Anyway, this episode is bringing back memories of the Canadian nonsense a decade ago, when Stephen Harper pulled a similar stunt to avoid a VONC.

Yes and remember what Harper's fate was also. 

[Werthead]

BBC reporting that Ruth Davidson is on the verge of resigning as leader of the Scottish Conservatives. I suspect she's furious as Johnson's move will likely lead to a collapse in Tory support in Scotland and makes independence much more likely.

[Zorral]

Johnson shorted the UK.  Just on his announcement, the pound dropped.  Somebody made effwads of fula from that.

Think of much more than that BREXIT will contribute to the pockets of a very tiny minority (including Putin) as the UK is stripped and sold for parts.

Bedbug in chief over here is doing the same damned thing.  Even as a tropical storm that is already larger than Puerto Rico barrels down on the island, a storm that has all the potential to become a hurricane, he's moved FEMA funds to the pockets of his political donors.

As an Dem candidate for governor in Florida, who lost by about 5 votes in a recount says:

Quote

Somebody is making money from @realDonaldTrump tweeting the markets into panic. We should find out.

https://twitter.com/AndrewGillum/status/1166100046183636992

 

[Chaircat Meow]

4 hours ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Dunt's analysis.

Yes, he's still my usual go-to guy, when it comes to roughly understanding what's happening.

Short version. It's not as bad as it looks. It just adds pressure/a sense of urgency on MPs to get their act together quick, as the Goverment just effectively limited their available time further. So it's basically put up or shut up for them, esp. for the Tory rebels. Even the Queen speech can apparently be amended.

Correct me if I am wrong, given Bercow's previous ruling of not the same motion to be allowed being put forward in the same session the WA/Cooper-Letwin and all the motions that failed at the beginning of the year are available to be voted on once again (new parliamentary session). 

So there are ways to avoid no-deal.

I think this is right, it is not as bad as it looks.

Still, my view is Parliament should do to Boris what the Roman Senate did to Nero. He and Cummings are scum and deserve to be put down. 

[The Anti-Targ]

So, what if the VONC happens, Corbyn puts himself forward as PM and he fails to get a majority to back him as PM, at that point Corbyn concedes he can't be PM and then says his MPs can back whomever among the no-deal opponents can command a majority? All that can be done within a few days I would think.

If Corbyn the Brexiter is willing to let no-deal happen rather than miss out on being the PM who stops no-deal, does that mean he's playing from a position of strength, because everyone else will cave in before it's too late? Corbyn wants Brexit, he really doesn't want no-deal (assuming he's being honest about that at least, which I think is reasonable to assume) but he'll wear that outcome if he has to. That of course assumes the other factions who may be in the coalition aren't also willing to let no-deal happen.

[Which Tyler]

On 8/28/2019 at 12:52 PM, Pebble thats Stubby said:

signed,  but unfortunately I believe this will only be debated after the Queen's speech.

Of course, but it's a way of expressing our unhappiness with this. I also know a few leavers who've signed it (despite the wording).

It's another fast one; took about 7 hours to become the second most signed petition in the history of petition.parliament; was on about 12,000 when I posted it yesterday, currently around 1,412,000

[Werthead]

Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, was asked about Brexit at a meeting of defence ministers by his French counterpart and made a reasonable point (Parliament has not made it clear what it wants, only what it doesn't want) but then threw up his hands and said "politics!" before saying that the British system cannot handle coalitions.

Honest, but hardly confidence-inspiring.

[The Anti-Targ]

Eh, I don't think it is a reasonable point. It's pretty clear that if MPs had total freedom to vote their personal preference Parliament would revoke Art 50 and put this whole debacle behind it. Trouble is too many MPs feel they don't have that freedom (and they are probably right because Brexiteers would cause a shit load of trouble on the streets if parliament overrode the will of the people obtained under false pretenses).

[Which Tyler]

Seeing quite a lot of protests being organised for tomorrow late-morning.
Cheltenham is the easiest for me to get to

[Werthead]

"Hypocrisy Trucks" are driving around the constituencies of current government ministers playing videos on continuous loops of current government ministers saying suspending Parliament would be an outrageous assault on democracy from a few months back, but apparently now it's fine (note, those Tories who have rightfully resigned over the issue are not being targeted).

[Safiya]

On 8/22/2019 at 8:31 PM, A wilding said:

It is boring to reprise, but as I recall I did not ask you any questions at all. My points were:

• Recent opinion poll and election results show that Corbyn is not massively popular - e.g. Labour got 28% in this year's council elections.
• That this is evidence that a large number of people who voted Remain are not that enamoured of him.
• That Labour unfortunately does have some issues with how it is handling some anti-semitism in its ranks, which I backed up by examples quoted as fact by the BBC.

If you do now have any counter arguments to the above, feel free. But please try to avoid the personal insults.

As for:

... but apparently not so COMPLETELY against it as to be willing to compromise and let someone else be the temporary caretaker PM!

You gave to me absolutely zero examples of antisemitism , so you're a proven liar thank you, you're done, what a life you must live lol. 

As to your other points, I addressed those with GE results where 40% of the population of the UK voted for Jeremy Corbyn to be the next PM.  Game over.

In the adult world we have coalition governments and in the really adult world we have a mix of representative and direct democracy, not gerrymandering by immature fools who live by lying and live shallow hilarious lives.

As for me, what do you know about me?  That I don't lie that's what you know about me.  I can't even understand what you're trying to lie about me but I'll have a guess.  That I'm not completely against Remain?  I'm against a No deal brexit and to remain within the EU, but there's only a few immature people who think the EU needs no reforming.  A second referendum would clarify what the British people want.  I'd say go back to lying but you're not very good at it lmao.

[Safiya]

On 8/22/2019 at 11:08 PM, Maltaran said:

Objectively false, there hasn’t been any boundary changes since before 2010 (the proposed boundary review was killed by the Lib Dem’s as revenge for the Tories breaking their promise to support reform of the House of Lords).

I’ll grant that the proposals in the current review can be considered Tory gerrymandering, but they haven’t yet been approved 

It's not objectively false, boundaries have been changed many times over British parliamentary history, saying no boundary changes since 2010, what about it?  Seriously I think this website is infested with crackpots.  The Tory party has a very long history.

[Safiya]

On 8/23/2019 at 10:29 AM, Gaston de Foix said:

The UK has a first-past-the-post voting system rather than a proportional voting representation.  So although you are right to point to the disproportion as evidence that the cumulative will of British voters is not reflected in Parliamentary composition, this is a feature not a bug of our constitutional system. The major loser in this system are the smaller parties, such as the Lib Dems.  

Labour has previously been a beneficiary of this system.  In 2005, for example, 35.2% of the country voted Labour, 32.4% voted Tory.  Labour won 355 seats (55%) and the Tories won 198 seats (30.6%).  

I don't know whether the Tories are in fact carrying out boundary changes for party political purposes - you may be right about that.  But that's not the major reason for the gap. 

 

It's not a bug, it's corruption.  End of story.  You can believe otherwise.

[Safiya]

On 8/23/2019 at 10:50 AM, Bittersweet Distractor said:

Both the Conservatives and Labour have gerrymandered while in office, it’s nothing new.

I've given a cold hard fact, you've given...nothing.  Post 1945 there's been about 42 years of Tory government, 10 years of Tory-lite where 'New ' Labour took advantage of the small constituencies with an MP set up by the Whig and Tory governments, and only 10 years of Labour. 

This when we have always had a 40% Labour, 40% Tory, 20% other voting populace.  People need to wake up to the hard fact there's a whole lot of lying, stealing and murdering sociopaths and psychopaths in the Tory party.

[A wilding]

5 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

Seeing quite a lot of protests being organised for tomorrow late-morning.
Cheltenham is the easiest for me to get to

We will be going on one. There is a list here:

https://www.anothereurope.org/stopthecoup-join-the-nationwide-wave-of-protests/

Anyone know of any others?

 

[Maltaran]

1 hour ago, Safiya said:

It's not objectively false, boundaries have been changed many times over British parliamentary history, saying no boundary changes since 2010, what about it?  Seriously I think this website is infested with crackpots.  The Tory party has a very long history.

I was specifically referring to your claim that the 2017 results were due to Tory gerrymandering, when the boundaries used for that election were introduced under a Labour government.

[Which Tyler]

1 hour ago, A wilding said:

We will be going on one. There is a list here:

https://www.anothereurope.org/stopthecoup-join-the-nationwide-wave-of-protests/

Anyone know of any others?

 

Cheltenham's not on the list, 11.30 at the promenade, Worcester has one too - Unless they were pointing to the Romsey one.

 

ETA: Google maps includes Cheltenham, and many more

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=126xVlyiCy5vkZhJFDVNJyMQFFuCuliV5&hl=en_US&ll=52.43548163793674%2C-2.46041114984223&z=9