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HelenaExMachina

UK Politics: It's Life Pfeffel but not as we know it

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1 hour ago, Safiya said:

It's not objectively false, boundaries have been changed many times over British parliamentary history, saying no boundary changes since 2010, what about it?  Seriously I think this website is infested with crackpots.  The Tory party has a very long history.

I was specifically referring to your claim that the 2017 results were due to Tory gerrymandering, when the boundaries used for that election were introduced under a Labour government.

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1 hour ago, A wilding said:

We will be going on one. There is a list here:

https://www.anothereurope.org/stopthecoup-join-the-nationwide-wave-of-protests/

Anyone know of any others?

 

Cheltenham's not on the list, 11.30 at the promenade, Worcester has one too - Unless they were pointing to the Romsey one.

 

ETA: Google maps includes Cheltenham, and many more

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=126xVlyiCy5vkZhJFDVNJyMQFFuCuliV5&hl=en_US&ll=52.43548163793674%2C-2.46041114984223&z=9

Edited by Which Tyler

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So we have:

2 hours ago, Safiya said:

In the adult world ...

but also:

2 hours ago, Safiya said:

... you're a proven liar thank you, you're done, what a life you must live lol. ...  Game over. ... immature fools who live by lying and live shallow hilarious lives. ... I can't even understand what you're trying to lie about me ... I'd say go back to lying but you're not very good at it lmao.

In the adult world, whether someone is lying (or just wrong) gets decided by a consensus of readers of this site, not by you (assuming you were not just engaged in self-congratulatory masturbation there). Though in the adult world, I think that most people would say that spending so much of your posts on insult shows an awareness of the weakness of your arguments and is an attempt to cover those weaknesses over.

Also, in the adult world of coalition and democracy that you refer to, people should be trying to build bridges and reach agreement where possible. Gratuitous insults and demonising those who differ from you is hardly likely to achieve that. Though sadly, in doing so you are probably very much in step with the state of politics in the UK today.

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2 hours ago, Safiya said:

I've given a cold hard fact, you've given...nothing.  Post 1945 there's been about 42 years of Tory government, 10 years of Tory-lite where 'New ' Labour took advantage of the small constituencies with an MP set up by the Whig and Tory governments, and only 10 years of Labour. 

This when we have always had a 40% Labour, 40% Tory, 20% other voting populace.  People need to wake up to the hard fact there's a whole lot of lying, stealing and murdering sociopaths and psychopaths in the Tory party.

You really don’t think the Labour Party has been guilty of gerrymandering themselves?:lmao:.

By your own admission a hard left labour government hasn’t done very well overall, perhaps that should indicate that hard left policies arn’t very popular with the electorate.

 

 

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I don't believe people are still feeding the troll. I know those are dire times in UK politics, and I can understand the need to look for a distraction, but he is not even good/funny while trolling.

I mean most of his posts read like Labour version of Trump's twitter feed. Logically incoherent rambling, with an odd insult here and there.

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2 hours ago, Maltaran said:

I was specifically referring to your claim that the 2017 results were due to Tory gerrymandering, when the boundaries used for that election were introduced under a Labour government.

Why would you think I only referred to 2017? It doesn't even make any sense, boundaries wouldn't all get changed by Labour what a ridiculous claim.  The history of the boundaries is what matters here, how they have led to 42+ years of Tory government 10 years of Tory lite and just 10 years of Labour despite how people vote 40% voting, Labour 40% Tory etc.

Btw can you refer to New Labour as New Labour and not Labour, thank you.

If you're LD you'd support me on this, I'd have proportional representation so LD would have a whole lot more seats.

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2 hours ago, A wilding said:

Thanks, we will probably go to the Oxford one.

Placard done, just got to print and glue in the morning (no printer at home). I've never actually protested before.

Stop the coup d'e twat

Edited by Which Tyler

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1 hour ago, A wilding said:

In the adult world, whether someone is lying (or just wrong) gets decided by a consensus of readers of this site, not by you (assuming you were not just engaged in self-congratulatory masturbation there). Though in the adult world, I think that most people would say that spending so much of your posts on insult shows an awareness of the weakness of your arguments and is an attempt to cover those weaknesses over.

Also, in the adult world of coalition and democracy that you refer to, people should be trying to build bridges and reach agreement where possible. Gratuitous insults and demonising those who differ from you is hardly likely to achieve that. Though sadly, in doing so you are probably very much in step with the state of politics in the UK today.

You think lying (and truth) is decided by consensus.  Now I know I'm talking to a complete crackpot.  Go and masturbate alone even when with your 'friends' on this site.

When you are asked for examples from a website you linked too, and you don't give any, then claim you gave examples then you are a liar, that's the be all and end of all of this.  Claiming people on this site decide what is the truth you are quite frankly in need of help.  I actually think you believe what you're saying.  Well enjoy the nutty club lol.  You remind me of a gaslighter, someone who denies the reality of truth.

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2 minutes ago, Safiya said:

HahahahaHAHAHA imbecile lol.  You refer to New Labour Tory Lite, if you want to actually make more of a claim and not laugh like a imbecile you are lol.

Tut tut another liar, by my own admission Labour has had about 40% of the vote since 1945 but only 10 years of government.  New Labour Tory Lite has had 10 years and the Tories 42 years.  Game over you're done.

 

please attack the post / argument.  not the poster.   Or Get the fuck out.

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9 minutes ago, Safiya said:

New Labour Tory Lite has had 10 years

 

Disassociating your party from the only electoral successes its had in the last 40 years doesn't sound like a vote-winning strategy to me, especially when the senior leadership were MPs for that party at that time.

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2 minutes ago, Denvek said:

 

Disassociating your party from the only electoral successes its had in the last 40 years doesn't sound like a vote-winning strategy to me, especially when the senior leadership were MPs for that party at that time.

They're not my party, maybe go read what I have written.  but I'm definitely telling people to vote Labour now that for absolutely certain.

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5 minutes ago, Denvek said:

 

Disassociating your party from the only electoral successes its had in the last 40 years doesn't sound like a vote-winning strategy to me, especially when the senior leadership were MPs for that party at that time.

Yes, why wouldn't anyone sane oppose a system that has been gerrymandered?  Britain's mental health crisis.

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7 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

Placard done, just got to print and glue in the morning (no printer at home). I've never actually protested before.

Stop the coup d'e twat

The apostrophe looks odd.

Small excourse to what's left from my school French (which is admittedly not much).

Coup d'etat gets that apostrophe because otherwise there'd be two vowel sounds succeeding each other. Coup de etat (!sic) (or is it coup du etat? nah, gotta be de etat, @Rippounet can probably correct me there) get's turned into coup d'etat. While Johnson is a twat (obviously) it's not starting with a vowel. I know, I am a pedant, but that's the sort of small stuff I can get obsessed about. Coup de twat.

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I'm aware, and I haven't put the space in there, just different colours to emphasise the "twat" - not an option here.

Coup d'etwat

 

As for pedantry - see my no de plum, see my avatar - I approve of pedantry!

Edited by Which Tyler

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10 hours ago, Safiya said:

Why would you think I only referred to 2017? It doesn't even make any sense, boundaries wouldn't all get changed by Labour what a ridiculous claim.  The history of the boundaries is what matters here, how they have led to 42+ years of Tory government 10 years of Tory lite and just 10 years of Labour despite how people vote 40% voting, Labour 40% Tory etc.

Btw can you refer to New Labour as New Labour and not Labour, thank you.

If you're LD you'd support me on this, I'd have proportional representation so LD would have a whole lot more seats.

FFS.

If this is some monumental Tory plot, how do you explain February 1974, when the Tories got the most votes, but lost the election? Or 2005, when the Tories got the most votes in England, but failed to get 200 seats? Or 1983, when FPP saved Labour's bacon? Sure, the Tories tend to be in office longer, but Labour has a bad habit of winning elections (1929, 1974) that it'd have been better off losing, whereas the Tories win elections (1951, 1979) that were very good ones to win. Had Attlee waited until 1952 to call the election, it's entirely possible that his Government would have lasted the rest of the 1950s. 

Meanwhile 1945-1951, 1964-1970, 1974-1979 = 17 years, not 10. And 1997-2010? The policy stances of that Government had nothing to do with boundaries.

(As for proportional representation... you are aware that if party vote shares were replicated under the new system, that it's entirely possible that 1945 might have seen a less radical Labour Government, or even a Tory-Liberal Coalition?).

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Yes, totally imbecilic to point out hard left policies don’t gain votes because they’re, well.....not popular, maybe it’s best to go back to the school debating team as you have all the idealism and none of the pragmatism of a 15 year old.

(To be honest I’m still convinced you’re a troll, if so I have to admit it’s pretty good trolling, well done)

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4 minutes ago, Bittersweet Distractor said:

Yes, totally imbecilic to point out hard left policies don’t gain votes because they’re, well.....not popular, maybe it’s best to go back to the school debating team as you have all the idealism and none of the pragmatism of a 15 year old.

(To be honest I’m still convinced you’re a troll, if so I have to admit it’s pretty good trolling, well done)

It's arguably more a case that Hard Left policies don't gain votes because they haven't actually been offered in decades, since it's rather hard to vote for a Labour Left if it isn't on offer. Even Corbyn's 2017 manifesto had more in common with the 1983 Alliance manifesto than Foot's.

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8 minutes ago, The Marquis de Leech said:

It's arguably more a case that Hard Left policies don't gain votes because they haven't actually been offered in decades, since it's rather hard to vote for a Labour Left if it isn't on offer. Even Corbyn's 2017 manifesto had more in common with the 1983 Alliance manifesto than Foot's.

You do have a point, although Labour became much more of an electoral success when they occupied the centre ground. In your opinion do you think Corbyn could win an election with the state of politics at the moment?, to me the fact that he hasn’t made significant gains in the polls and is still behind a completely shambolic Tory party indicates he couldn’t, it’s a really sad state of affairs we’re in at the moment, not only an ineffectual government but an ineffectual opposition as well :(.

 

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