UK politics - The Yellowhammer Made The Robin Weep

[Heartofice]

Not a fan of Johnson’s language, but the tactic of using Jo Cox’s death every time someone says something you don’t like is also very low. 

[mormont]

6 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Not a fan of Johnson’s language, but the tactic of using Jo Cox’s death every time someone says something you don’t like is also very low. 

Not a fan of this comment, either. 

Jo Cox's death was and is referenced in relation to death threats received by MPs. You either did not read the article, preferring your own half-formed prejudices to facts, or did read it and can fairly be compared to Johnson in your use of language, as you have chosen to dismiss and belittle this very serious issue in a similar way. 

You should just have typed 'humbug' instead. Saved words. 

[Derfel Cadarn]

Paraphrasing from Twitter:

 

For someone in favour of privatising everything, Boris seems to be getting publicly owned a lot.

[Which Tyler]

For those worried about the americanization of the Supreme Court - Geof Cox wants to dissolve the seperation of power and have supreme court appointments be political affairs.

Please note - this is not a decision the supreme court has made, it's a suggestion a cabinet minister has made. He doesn't like being told that he's wrong, so he's going to change the system to one that will agree with him, even when he's wrong.

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/supreme-court-appointments-may-need-mps-approval-attorney-general/5101571.article?fbclid=IwAR2F57qCqqWY5TMQ19bOD_BBEvWSns5zejlhbcwqQ9Nd6uAITJsDcUsU118

[ants]

Boris's comments that they should honour Jo Cox by doing Brexit were beyond the pale, as bad as the humbug comments. 

45 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Not a fan of Johnson’s language, but the tactic of using Jo Cox’s death every time someone says something you don’t like is also very low. 

As Mormont said, this is particularly disgusting of you. 

Jo Cox was raised by a friend, specifically in relation to the language Boris was using.  She wasn't raised to argue for Remain, or against his points, but simply to point out that his language was extreme, and reflected language that MPs were receiving in death threats.  How on earth that isn't absolutely relevant to the situation around Jo Cox, and an absolutely fair thing for a friend and fellow MP to do?

[Heartofice]

2 hours ago, mormont said:

Not a fan of this comment, either. 

Jo Cox's death was and is referenced in relation to death threats received by MPs. You either did not read the article, preferring your own half-formed prejudices to facts, or did read it and can fairly be compared to Johnson in your use of language, as you have chosen to dismiss and belittle this very serious issue in a similar way. 

You should just have typed 'humbug' instead. Saved words. 

Make no mistake she was using this as a political weapon against Boris, and I find that pretty disgusting. Boris hasn't been alone in using heightened language, Labour has not been above it either. Using the terms of 'Lynching' and 'Coup' should also be condemned, but she has been silent. 

Jo Cox's death should not be used as a political football, if she was genuinely concerned then she would also be looking to her own party. 

Thats not to say I approve of anything Johnson said, I thought his comment about Brexit in relation to Jo Cox was also abhorrent .

[mormont]

Doubling down was not a good idea. 

[mormont]

Anyway, it turns out, to nobody's surprise, that Michael Gove is telling easily exposed lies about preparadness for No Deal. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49833221

Quote

 

UK firms present at a meeting with no-deal Brexit minister Michael Gove this week have denied his claim that industry told him it is "ready" for no-deal Brexit.

In the resumed Commons session, the chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster said: "The automotive sector, who I met this week, confirmed that they were ready, the retail sector said they were ready."

Three attendees at the relevant meeting in Coventry this week told the BBC this was not an accurate reflection of Monday's meeting with manufacturers.

"I was at the meeting. There's no way that is the message he could have gone away with," said one business leader.

Another present, when asked if Mr Gove had been told by the car industry that it was ready, replied: "No! We said we are planning as best we can, but cannot prepare for all eventualities and tariffs alone undermine our viability. We want a deal. No deal is not an option. Catastrophic."

 

 

[Raja]

Heartofice making an comment that shows little understanding & is offensive? I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.

And no, I don't want to 'take this to DMs' to discuss it, hoi.

*Anyway* - I'm surprised they aren't bringing the domestic violence bill to a vote - that doesn't make much sense to me.

[Which Tyler]

WTF? Auntie actually upheld a complaint about this?

https://twitter.com/StevePeers/status/1177136825397317634

[Heartofice]

31 minutes ago, Raja said:

Heartofice making an comment that shows little understanding & is offensive? I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.

And no, I don't want to 'take this to DMs' to discuss it, hoi.

*Anyway* - I'm surprised they aren't bringing the domestic violence bill to a vote - that doesn't make much sense to me.

Point out hypocrisy is offensive now? 

• Liam Byrne saying the PM was guilty of treason
• Jess Phillips saying she will “knife Corbyn in the front”
• Near universal calling of prorogation a “coup”
• Stephen Doughty saying the PM has engaged in a “betrayal of Britain”
• John McDonnell comparing the PM to a “dictator” during WWII
• Ian Blackford accusing the PM of “behaving more like a dictator than a democrat”, twice in the same speech
• Jeremy Corbyn alleging the coalition killed 120,000 people
• Diane Abbott calling the Tories “cruel and callous”
• David Lammy saying Leavers behaved like Nazis, then doubling down saying the comparison wasn’t strong enough
• John McDonnell fantasising about killing Margaret Thatcher
• John McDonnell’s famous “lynch the b*tch” comments on Esther McVey
• John McDonnell accusing the Tories of ‘social murder‘
• John McDonnell on wanting to garrot Danny Alexander
• Ed Davey calling for a remain alliance in Uxbridge to “decapitate” Boris
• Ian Blackford was accused of “agressive” behaviour towards Charles Kennedy during the 2015 election in a note to the police
• Corbyn’s own hard-left leadership has led to his own MPs being called “traitors”,“Blairite scum” and “Tory stooges” innumerable times

 

[mormont]

1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

Point out hypocrisy is offensive now? 

No. That wasn't the comment that was being referred to, and you know it. It took you until your second post to hit on that, after you had been criticised, which makes it look rather as if you are concerned with the issue of hypocrisy only as a way of trying to avoid apologising or admitting fault. 

If you had raised the comments by McDonnell and others after first apologising for crassly suggesting that Jo Cox's death was being used as a 'tactic' whenever 'someone says something you don’t like', people might be willing to engage with that. As it is, nobody believes you are acting in good faith. 

[Heartofice]

3 minutes ago, mormont said:

No. That wasn't the comment that was being referred to, and you know it. It took you until your second post to hit on that, after you had been criticised, which makes it look rather as if you are concerned with the issue of hypocrisy only as a way of trying to avoid apologising or admitting fault. 

If you had raised the comments by McDonnell and others after first apologising for crassly suggesting that Jo Cox's death was being used as a 'tactic' whenever 'someone says something you don’t like', people might be willing to engage with that. As it is, nobody believes you are acting in good faith. 

If my original comment was misunderstood then fair enough,  but I was highlighting that it’s become quite a common tactic to use against opponents and IMO yesterday’s use of her death as a weapon to bash your opponent is very distasteful 

[mormont]

10 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

If my original comment was misunderstood

It wasn't. You appear to want to later reinterpret it. That won't fly. 

[Heartofice]

Just now, mormont said:

It wasn't. You appear to want to later reinterpret it. That won't fly. 

Are you trying to tell me what I meant? 

[mormont]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Are you trying to tell me what I meant? 

What you meant is quite clear from reading what you wrote. 

You've pulled this stunt too often to have any credibility, I'm afraid.

[Heartofice]

13 minutes ago, mormont said:

What you meant is quite clear from reading what you wrote. 

You've pulled this stunt too often to have any credibility, I'm afraid.

Dude you only have to go back one page to see you being called out for putting your own spin on what someone else is saying, using your fabled powers of telepathy, probably at least wait a bit before doing it again. 

[The Anti-Targ]

6 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Not a fan of Johnson’s language, but the tactic of using Jo Cox’s death every time someone says something you don’t like is also very low. 

 

30 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Dude you only have to go back one page to see you being called out for putting your own spin on what someone else is saying, using your fabled powers of telepathy, probably at least wait a bit before doing it again. 

Just a reminder of what got the shitstorm started. There's no ambiguity here, "the tactic of using Jo Cox’s death every time someone says something you don’t like". It's not even a true statement. How many times has her murder been invoked in the last few weeks when ever a Brexiter politician has said things that are objectionable to staunch remainers? This is the first time I've heard it being used in recent memory.

I would certainly commend every politician to refrain from using accusations and slurs that have found their way into past death threats.

Honestly I think the humbug dismissal is the worst thing, because it's trying to suggest words don't matter. It's words of leaders that motivate people to act. Violent words motivate violent deeds. It's crass to throw Jo Cox's murder back at her partly. But dismissing his words as not being potentially inciteful is dangerous.

 

[Which Tyler]

BJ goes nill from 7 in parliament.
Parliament are, amazingly, not impressed with the idea that they close for a few days having just got back from bein illegally closed for several days

[SeanF]

12 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

The electorate knowing what it does now (as opposed to 2016 and even 2017), and clearly knowing what each party's Brexit position is (Leave/no deal, straddle the fence, remain), if the Tory's get back with a majority (esp a majority that will vote through a no deal) then that's pretty much a mandate for the Tory's to do whatever they decide to do.

If there was a time for remainer Tories to vote for another party to preserve the union and stay in the EU and deny the Tory party a majority it will be whenever there's a GE before the final Brexit decision is carried out. They don't need to vote Labour, they just need to vote Lib Dem (or Plaid, or whoever) in large enough numbers in the right electorates.

There are not many Remainer Tories left.  About 46% of the voters back the Conservatives or the The Brexit Party, and only about 16% of current Tory voters support Remain.  And, those who live in Labour/Conservative marginal constituencies will still vote Conservative to prevent the sorts of policies that the Labour conference backed from ever being implemented.