Tyrion1991 Posted July 28, 2019 Share Posted July 28, 2019 So in the Sam chapters we learn that Lord Leyton has been consulting spell books in the high tower with his Mad Witch daughter. Now, this could be utter nonsense or perhaps there’s some truth to it. Currently it’s impossible to know since Sam hasn’t fully met the Hightower’s. But for the sake of argument let’s assume that the Hightower’s are in on the supernatural game. That Lord Leyton is up to something and is playing the long game. To me that makes Lord Leyton marrying off his beautiful daughter to Jorah extremely suspicious. Firstly why would Lynesse offer her favour to an incredibly ugly and impoverished knight of no repute and then her father accept his proposal when he didn’t even win the tourney? To put this into context, one of Lord Leytons daughters was married to Mace Tyrell. The Hightower’s are as rich as the Lannister’s and control one of the largest cities in Westeros. Lynesse definitely had her pick and I don’t see why the Patriarch of a powerful family (who makes such marriage alliances) would not match her with someone else. So he had an ulterior motive. Perhaps this really is true love and Lord Leyton was moved by his daughters spontaneous affection; but let’s be cynical here. What I think happened is that Lord Leyton saw some vision in which he learned that “the loving bear saves the dragon” or something to that effect and realised that Jorah coming to meet Dany, falling in love and saving her twice in AGOT directly leads to dragons. If Lord Leyton backs the Maesters then he does not support Dragons. So, how does he prevent Jorah meeting Dany to ensure she dies? By setting Lynesse up with him so that he’ll be happy on Bear Island and never meet or fall in love with Dany. Lynesse is meant to be as beautiful as Dany according to Jorah so she’s perfect for this. However, this became a self fulfilling prophecy. In sending Lynesse to Jorah Lord Leyton set in motion Jorah becoming a slaver, got himself exiled and was so besotted by Lynesse that he was predisposed to like Dany who happens to look like her. Which means he saves Dany and that means the dragons happen without a hitch. I can kind of see this because it would explain how unhappy Lynesse was if she had been asked to go with Jorah because her father commanded it. Cat compares her situation to Lynesse in one case and makes me wonder if the circumstances were more similar. Duty and not love brought her North just like Cat. Also, we learn from Jorah that Lynesse became the chief concubine of a merchant prince in Lys and “even his wife goes in fear of her”. So, this doesn’t sound like some sweet little bird here who would fall for an ugly knight. Iam getting more Cersei rather than Sansa here. Plus, this romantic meeting all being a lie and self fulfilling prophecy feels like something George would do. As an aside I really hope Lynesse shows up in a big way in Winds of Winter. There’s a lot of good drama you could throw into the story with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X-Buster Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Lynesse is a younger daughter. The family was in the same predicament as Walder is. They needed to marry off the children. Jorah was the lord of Bear Island. Lynesse was fortunate to marry a lord instead of a landed knight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megorova Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Tyrion1991 said: If Lord Leyton backs the Maesters then he does not support Dragons. Maesters are against magic, and Leyton isn't. And it seems that Gerold Hightower was supporting Rhaegar because of the PTWP prophecy. Maybe, he sent his daughter to The North, because he somehow knew, that there's a hidden dragon there, and that a "bear" will play an important role in the Second Long Night. Possibly, when he saw Jorah on that tournament, who was the Lord of the Bear Island, Leyton saw it as a sign, and thus, when Jorah asked Lynesse's hand, Leyton agreed to it, and maybe even had to force Lynesse to play along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 No need for fancy theories. As unit said. Leyton Hightower has many children. Lynesse is pretty but looks come second. Higher in the line your children is, better the chances of a decent marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimbono Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Agree with above, but I have another question but don't want to open another thread. We know Jorah had money problems and even went so far to sell slaves, for which he got exciled. Was there any chance for him to sell his Valyrian Sword (I imagine the Lannisters would have paid a good price, enough to keep his wife happy for some more years). Or was there the limit to his honors? I got the concept that he was willing to "do everything" for Lynesse at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia H. Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 16 minutes ago, Kimbono said: Agree with above, but I have another question but don't want to open another thread. We know Jorah had money problems and even went so far to sell slaves, for which he got exciled. Was there any chance for him to sell his Valyrian Sword (I imagine the Lannisters would have paid a good price, enough to keep his wife happy for some more years). Or was there the limit to his honors? I got the concept that he was willing to "do everything" for Lynesse at that time. Jorah may have been willing to do "anything" for Lynesse, but he was obviously more willing to do certain things than certain other things. He was more willing to sell poachers to slavers than sell the family's ancestral sword. Selling the poachers didn't cost him anything, while selling the sword would have meant giving up something of value that was his. He also hoped to keep the slave business a secret. The sword going missing would have been noticed by the family sooner or later. In time, he might have got to the place where he would have been willing to sell the sword as well, but it was all over before that could have happened. To be fair, he left behind the sword when he fled Bear Island, which may indeed have been due to a sense of family honour. Another possibility is that he did not have the time (or the presence of mind to remember) to take the sword. To the OP: I agree with the others above. Lynesse was the youngest daughter, and although her family was an ancient one, her father wasn't a high lord. If we really want to look for ulterior motives, well, it is just possible that Lynesse had had an affair with someone who didn't marry her, and there may have been rumours, so her best chance was to marry someone who knew nothing about local gossip and would take her far away from her home. If it was so, Jorah was the ideal candidate. Of course, this is only speculation, it is just as possible that she indeed had a crush on the exotic northern bear - as far as I can remember, Jorah won the tourney(?) after all. Also, knowing her personality a bit more than Jorah did, her father may have been just happy to marry her off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shameeka Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I think Lynesse had some premarital indiscretion, and she was quite shallow so her father married her off to the far north as a form of exile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 Even a disgraced younger daughter could hope for a better match than Jorah. The sister above her married a Redwyne and the one above that Mace Tyrell. It’s an extremely well connected family by the family tree and Lord Leytons obviously picked all of these as political matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 I think the timing of the marriage is suspicious. Sure, Leyton had a lot of children and he has to marry them off. He could have married her off to the sons of one of his bannermen. One of his daughters is married into House Cupps, which we know absolutely nothing about. Tywin tells Tyrion that he offered him to several lords, including Leyton Hightower, so it's not like there were zero offers for her or interest. And I'm going by assumption that it was Lynesse Tywin sought to marry Tyrion off to based on their ages. I think there's something to her marriage to Jorah. I think Lynesse was meant to be her father's eyes and ears in the north. Lynesse's father-in-law is the LC of the NW, House Mormont are bannermen to the Starks, she got to go to Winterfell several times for feasts and stayed there for a fortnight and so on. When I look at things chronologically, there are some Hightower ties to House Stark. Maester Walys was Lord Rickard's maester and the alleged architect of "southron ambitions" (which I don't personally buy into) and Gerold Hightower was there when Brandon and Rickard were executed and later he was at the ToJ where he died. A member of House Hightower popping up in the north isn't really all that surprising to me. And I'd give money to know if the Lord Whent who is mentioned in the same breath as Leyton Hightower at the tourney at Lannisport is Walter Whent or a son of his. Because that sure makes things more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Jorah was the hero of the day during that time. Not only he wasvery distinguished during the Greyjoy Rebellion but also had a stellar performance at the Tourney of Lannisport, where even the World's Champion Jaime Lannister couldn't defeat him. He was knighted by Robert himself on front of everybody. The Hightowers on the other hand were supporters of Aerys. I wouldn't be surprised if they had to pay a hefty sum to the the crown as part of getting their pardon. Probably Jorah didn't ask for much a dowry and Jorah was a lord in his own from a old and noble house, with supposedly good contact to the new political powers in Westeros. I don't find the match unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 He was second into the breech at Pyke and he only got the draw on Jamie Lannister. He isn’t talked about by other characters in Westeros apart from his slaving so he isn’t a big name. He’s a second rate kind of guy. Jorah bigs this up to Dany but Barristan pretty deftly dismisses it later on. So it really is an unbelievable match. I was going to mention Tyrion as a candidate since he was of an age with Lynesse. Lord Leyton was in Lannisport for the tourney so it’s possibly here that this was brought up by Tywin. The fact he said no to marrying this “disposable” daughter to the Rocks legal heir is kind of suggestive in itself. Just a gamble that he actually inherits the Rock is worth it. Whereas an immensely impoverished Northern Lord with no lands or people is not. Perhaps he is the kind father thinking of his daughters wishes but the rest of his family marriages don’t suggest this. If he wanted eyes in the North then Mormonts are not the family. Rob would have been too young Iam assuming but Manderleys, Karstarks; even the Bolton’s are all more centrally located and influential. But none of his other marriages indicate an interest in the North. They all seem to be focused on the Reach. Its just a hell of a coincidence that a family which is involved with magic and prophecies would just happen to have this link to Dany. As an aside, is it likely that Gerold Hightower told his family about the TOJ and Jon? I recall this coming up a lot with the Daynes and Darkstar but Iam assuming it applies to him as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 5 hours ago, Tyrion1991 said: Even a disgraced younger daughter could hope for a better match than Jorah. The sister above her married a Redwyne and the one above that Mace Tyrell. It’s an extremely well connected family by the family tree and Lord Leytons obviously picked all of these as political matches. Florent that Bob the breaker deflowered married a household knight. Seriously, read the books. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megorova Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: Florent that Bob the breaker deflowered married a household knight. Seriously, read the books. Again. Lysa and Littlefinger. And then she married with the Lord of the Vale. Walder Frey's sister, who was caught in the act with a servant, married with Lord Butterwell. Freys were not as wealthy as Hightowers, that Frey girl was not as beautiful as Lynesse, nevertheless they managed to marry her to the Lord of Cows, who was significally better match than the Lord of Bears. So it is suspicious, that Leyton didn't found a better match for Lynesse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted July 29, 2019 Author Share Posted July 29, 2019 Besides doesn’t it seem a little out of place for this beautiful woman to spontaneously fall in love with this ugly and cheerless Bear? Jorahs explanation is that he was that awesome at the joust. But then why offer her favour in the first place and he didn’t even win? He’s meant to be hideously ugly according to Tyrion and Dany; so what gives? She has to have had some reason for this. Yes we have Cat who warmed up to Ned over time once she got to know him. But that’s a different situation. This is implied to be almost love at first sight and that doesn’t seem like George’s style. It looks like a setup if you’re in a cynical mood. Yeah, the purpose of this is to critique love at first sight because they’re actually a terrible match; being from two different worlds. They end up ruining each other. But does that mean they have to have loved each other for the satire to work? I don’t know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 38 minutes ago, Megorova said: Lysa and Littlefinger. And then she married with the Lord of the Vale. Walder Frey's sister, who was caught in the act with a servant, married with Lord Butterwell. Freys were not as wealthy as Hightowers, that Frey girl was not as beautiful as Lynesse, nevertheless they managed to marry her to the Lord of Cows, who was significally better match than the Lord of Bears. So it is suspicious, that Leyton didn't found a better match for Lynesse. Have you noticed both of these men are rather old? Gatehouse Amerei was married to some random inbred cousin of Tom’o sevens. Spotted Sylva, though married off not because she was deflowered but for other reasons, heir to house Santagar, is married to the aged Eldon Estermont, lord of the not so significant island of Greenstone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 55 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: Have you noticed both of these men are rather old? Gatehouse Amerei was married to some random inbred cousin of Tom’o sevens. Spotted Sylva, though married off not because she was deflowered but for other reasons, heir to house Santagar, is married to the aged Eldon Estermont, lord of the not so significant island of Greenstone A sixth daughter, let alone the 8th of 10 children, marrying a prominent lord, one that she had favored with her favor, is not a bad match. That Leyton didn't have to throw in a dowry (afawk) and his daughter actually found the guy acceptable only make this more acceptable. The only possible match that comes close to matching Jorah on paper is actually Tyrion, since he is ostensibly the heir to Tywin when Jaime goes into the KG. However we don't know the timing (e.g. before Jaime was in the KG) or the daughter (could have been melora). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castellan Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 A good match. and he wanted to marry the hussy off before she caused a scandal. A remote island must have seemed just the thing, but she created a scandal anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Did opinion of Tyrells matter? Or do Tyrells have right of veto any marriages of their bannerhouses? After all any sane lord of HG would not want Hightowers to become any stronger that they already are. So there is a possibility that some paranoid Tyrell used (her ?) veto to stop a marriage that would have endangered dominance of Tyrells and instead Lynesse married almost harmless lord of Bear Isle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 4 hours ago, Castellan said: A good match. and he wanted to marry the hussy off before she caused a scandal. A remote island must have seemed just the thing, but she created a scandal anyway. Sam talks to a guy in Oldtown who refers to her as the “whore of a sister”. But, isn’t that referring to her current status as chief concubine to a Lys merchant? As opposed to anything she did prior to meeting Jorah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Jorah's stock was high because he won the tourney. His future looked promising. The husband's status is more important to women over looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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