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The Iron Throne Episode script is out

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is the script still available somewhere? It was took down from the Emmys website before I noticed it was out... :(

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Even though this one lands on "my side" of the biggest "what was intended" script reveal (Jon and the NW), I'll restate what I said other seasons.  The script is the script, what the directors and editors actually put on screen is NOT the same thing for various reasons.  Keep in mind the director of the Jofferey's coffin could not comprehend the way the audience saw that.  Some times people are just incompetent...

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Honestly, even a series like marvel agents of shield was much better written than S8 and the final took into account that all the characters should have a role to play... I have no idea how GOT can have so many nominations when a series like this did in ep12 and 13 what GOT should have done... 

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Not very helpful. We only know how the freefolk felt about following Jon.

Jon steps forward into the sea of waiting faces. There is no suspicion in those faces, and no awe. Only trust. The Night’s Watch used to hunt them, but they will follow this Night’s Watchman.

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On 8/5/2019 at 1:56 AM, NymeriaWarriorQueen said:

Not very helpful. We only know how the freefolk felt about following Jon.

Jon steps forward into the sea of waiting faces. There is no suspicion in those faces, and no awe. Only trust. The Night’s Watch used to hunt them, but they will follow this Night’s Watchman.

Yeah its still ambiguous unfortunately. We don't know if he went to join the wildlings or if he is still in the NW

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On 8/4/2019 at 4:26 PM, NymeriaWarriorQueen said:

Jon steps forward into the sea of waiting faces. There is no suspicion in those faces, and no awe. Only trust. The Night’s Watch used to hunt them, but they will follow this Night’s Watchman.

That makes no sense.

LOL

How is that a punishment? If it is not a punishment, where is the reward?

 

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Well at least the script says Jon doesn’t fully forgive Sansa, it made no sense he was so cool with her. 

Still wish he had a Scarface from Half Baked moment in the Dragon Pit tho. 

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Posted (edited)

Meh, I only skimmed it at his stage but what sticks out to me is that, as an old thread noted, the biggest problem is they are too focused on psychological/character/icon driven narrative and especially those characters the internet has warmed to - specifically, celebrity fan service.

I would argue, more than GRRM not finishing and D&D being hacks, GoTs is a victim of its own popularity. Expectation (and the expectation of profit) had a bigger hand in telling the story than the story itself. It failed, as many things now do, because of corporate greed.

Edited by ummester

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On 8/17/2019 at 9:01 AM, ummester said:

Meh, I only skimmed it at his stage but what sticks out to me is that, as an old thread noted, the biggest problem is they are too focused on psychological/character/icon driven narrative and especially those characters the internet has warmed to - specifically, celebrity fan service.

I would argue, more than GRRM not finishing and D&D being hacks, GoTs is a victim of its own popularity. Expectation (and the expectation of profit) had a bigger hand in telling the story than the story itself. It failed, as many things now do, because of corporate greed.

I can get a sense of the ghost of GRRM's story from the show.  The Others will be defeated, which was always a given, defeated or fought to a draw.  I'm sure it will include a better back story and conclusion than Arya with a Sword in the Godswood.  Dany turns villain, good, I didn't think he was brave enough to turn blonde khaleesi abolitionist into the bad guy.  Jon doesn't become King of anything but goes back to the far North, predictable. Arya fucks off, this needs a lot more explanation from George and will likely be more tragic than heroic than what the show made it seem, Bran becomes king, again, I would believe that GRRM can make this work, but he has a tough task given the age and his failure to make the 5 year gap work, so without some type of gap or many more books, Bran is awfully young to be King, especially after disastrous 8 and 13 year old boy kings.  Sansa becomes queen, I personally hate this end point and have always thought she should die, but based on the show it seems that the 'protect your wolf and live' concept is not going to be born out w/both Summer and Shaggy dying, but okay, I can sort of see it even if I dislike it.  

So, the major steps seem to be there in dumbed down form, but either the show or the author was incapable of giving it any type of tying together on a thematic level, since almost everyone is left a shell of their former self, so, still has heavy nihilistic undertones, even with all but one more of the Starks staying alive, because the show gives no reason to believe a next generation of Starks will ever happen.  

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I didn't read all of it, but it doesn't explain whether Bran knew beforehand he would be king. I'm interested in knowing if he knew KL would burn. As for Jon, I'm still confused if he left with the wildlings or stayed with the NW.

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This is what surprised me the most, the fate of the Dothraki;

Quote


Jon stops to look down on Blackwater Bay, far beneath him, and sees the remaining ships of Dany’s fleet. Most are anchored, a few are still sailing in. From this vantage point, we can see the remaining Unsullied waiting to board with characteristic orderliness. The remaining Dothraki do the same; they have dismounted their horses, and walk them up gangplanks.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/27/2019 at 4:19 PM, Cas Stark said:

So, the major steps seem to be there in dumbed down form, but either the show or the author was incapable of giving it any type of tying together on a thematic level, since almost everyone is left a shell of their former self, so, still has heavy nihilistic undertones, even with all but one more of the Starks staying alive, because the show gives no reason to believe a next generation of Starks will ever happen. 

I am not that pessimistic with the next generation of Starks. Maybe Sansa don't want to marry right away, but she is young (should be around 20 at the end of the show) and can change her mind in 5 or 10 years. And even if she never marries, she can take a powerless lover (like the Mormont women with their bears), get as many children as she want (as bastards) and legitimize them. Since there are no close related Starks with a better claim to the throne than her legitimized children, that should work well. And should Arye change her mind or come back, Sansa might legitimize and/or take a child of Arya as heir.

And in the books, the chances are even better, since Sansa won't marry Ramsay Bolton and Harry Hardying might not be a loyal husband, but he shouldn't rape her or do similarly bad things. Yes she was used by the Lannisters and by Littlefinger, but I don't think that that matters a lot when she is queen and is in charge (at least a powerless lover should always be an option).

Edited by Haskelltier

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Posted (edited)
On 8/27/2019 at 11:49 PM, Cas Stark said:

I can get a sense of the ghost of GRRM's story from the show. 

Definitely - it's there, without a doubt.

On 8/27/2019 at 11:49 PM, Cas Stark said:

The Others will be defeated, which was always a given, defeated or fought to a draw.  I'm sure it will include a better back story and conclusion than Arya with a Sword in the Godswood. 

Yea, this is the biggest disappointment for me with the show. I can accept my chosen faction in this saga being defeated (my initial choosing of them was always a bit tongue in cheek anyway) but I am sure GRRM had plans to make them more grey than D&D presented them - make them more sympathetic, so that we end up in two minds about their defeat.

Man, I still remember as the music kicked in when they approached Bran in 803 - thinking, here it comes, the meaning to this whole story - the NK is going to confront Bran with something so profound all of our minds would be blown. I'm a hopeful fool, really :) Even in the midst of a divorce, I believe that deeper, meaningful things can happen - just not GoTs (or my wife).

But yea, whatever GRRM wrote for the others would be better than what we got. There is of course, the possibility that D&D were told to end the story without explaining the Others (by HBO) because they have become the series most intriguing element and the main reason for people to watch the prequel. Corporate greed fucking up the story, again.

On 8/27/2019 at 11:49 PM, Cas Stark said:

Dany turns villain, good, I didn't think he was brave enough to turn blonde khaleesi abolitionist into the bad guy.  Jon doesn't become King of anything but goes back to the far North, predictable. Arya fucks off, this needs a lot more explanation from George and will likely be more tragic than heroic than what the show made it seem, Bran becomes king, again, I would believe that GRRM can make this work, but he has a tough task given the age and his failure to make the 5 year gap work, so without some type of gap or many more books, Bran is awfully young to be King, especially after disastrous 8 and 13 year old boy kings.

Yep, I recon this would happen in the books, just written better by GRRM. I don't think making Dany a bad guy is that hard, as I, and other book readers, have expressed, the seeds were there from the start.

On 8/27/2019 at 11:49 PM, Cas Stark said:

Sansa becomes queen, I personally hate this end point and have always thought she should die, but based on the show it seems that the 'protect your wolf and live' concept is not going to be born out w/both Summer and Shaggy dying, but okay, I can sort of see it even if I dislike it.  

Book Sansa may just end up being the bitchy force, as developed by LF, needed to drive book Dany to despair. There may be no independent North in the books - just something thrown in for more girl power and happy endings on TV.

On 8/27/2019 at 11:49 PM, Cas Stark said:

So, the major steps seem to be there in dumbed down form, but either the show or the author was incapable of giving it any type of tying together on a thematic level, since almost everyone is left a shell of their former self, so, still has heavy nihilistic undertones, even with all but one more of the Starks staying alive, because the show gives no reason to believe a next generation of Starks will ever happen.  

GRRM is fairly nihilistic - sure he is anti war, anti fundamentalism and pro environment/nature - but I think he may have spat the dummy at humanity long ago. Not that I blame him, our species is pretty fucked up and getting worse. 

This aside, I still think the ending of GoTs was bittersweet. Bittersweet can occur independent of nihilism or hope. Ultimately it is about accepting A is unattainable and being satisfied with B. The most poignant bittersweets present B with more meaning, or hope, than A - but it doesn't have to be the case. Hope itself can sometimes be destructive.

Edited by ummester

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