What was Tywin's original plan?

[Dofs]

On 8/10/2019 at 5:27 AM, Victor Newman said:

The Starks took what was essentially a family feud and took it up a notch.  Tywin took it up another notch.  Ned could have deescalated the whole thing but didn't.  Perhaps it would not have gone up to war if Robert had lived.  Tywin was retaliating but he didn't think it would go as far as it did.  It shouldn't have with a reasonable king on the throne and Tywin incorrectly assessed Robert capable.

Wasn't really a family feud, Ned genuinely believed that Lannisters were about to strike against Robert due to Lysa writing that Lannisters killed Jon Arryn, and due to LF telling that the dagger with which an assassin tried to kill Bran belonged to Tyrion. That's why Catelyn felt like she had to capture Tyrion once Tyrion saw her in the inn - because in Cat's eyes her being there would signal to Tyrion that the Stark know about the planned coup. Ned and Cat belived they were already in a war before it actually began. 

[frenin]

28 minutes ago, Dreadscythe95 said:

There is also the red Kraken

He never rebelled, no more than the Arryns did during their own particular civil war, after Jeyne Arryn passes. 

 

28 minutes ago, Dreadscythe95 said:

GRRM had given info on the Armies and sustain of every kingdom somewhere, probably more poeple in here could also confirm this cause I don't remember at this point.

He said that the Reach can field muchos more men than the rest of the Kingdoms, nothing else .

 

28 minutes ago, Dreadscythe95 said:

Yes, they are far richer than the rest, there is a big gap.

True.

 

28 minutes ago, Dreadscythe95 said:

Gulltown is not irrelevant, it's just far weaker than the big 3 which are big economy centers for the whole world. White Harbor is very important because it's the only Northen Harbor. Still we have official info that it's very small (and very beautiful).

You are again buying your  own hype, when Lannisport is said to be that?? We know that White Harbor is the smallest of the 5 cities but that doesnt mean, very small.

 

32 minutes ago, Dreadscythe95 said:

5. No, Martin has given info again (maybe in The Wolrd Of Ice and Fire, I am not sure). He said that The Vale can sustain itself when it comes to food and it can actually in good years export a few but it's not enough to build strong econmy through agriculture. Still The Vale maintains itself, it can close The Bloody Gate and survive pretty well

And yet we  see  the Vale doing exactly that under LF.

 

 

33 minutes ago, Dreadscythe95 said:

Coin strength comes from gold and since in Westeros (and in real history that time) the nobles have a lot of gold and riches compared to the plebs, they use real gold coins (the golden dragon). So, it's the wealth of Casterly Rock that gives the coin strength of Westeros and it's The Reach that sustains most of Westeros in food, Maesters and wine (there is also the Dornish). Also they control the trade. 

How so?? With lesser  gold, the more valuable is the metal, Casterly Rock infinity gold, doesnt really help that much  and  we see different Kingdoms using different coinage.

 

 

37 minutes ago, Dreadscythe95 said:

They are not self sufficient at all and people don't go to school, the quality of life of the plebs depends directly to the quality of life of the Nobles. Also Dorn inports most of it's goods from The Free cities since they have good relationship with most of them and they have parted ways with Westeros many times. Even Doran's wife is fron Norvos.

It was sarcasm, yes the Kingdoms are self sufficient, we see  that along the story, Westeros have a common King and  a common law, that's all. Those Kingdoms have survived thousands of years split.

 

 

 

40 minutes ago, Dreadscythe95 said:

He won't destory The Lannisters because he will follow them. The Baratheon Crown was dependent on the Lannisters a lot. He would be forced to declare war if they did something extreme but considering that Catelyn was the one to start it all, they have a good excuse to act bold and still not get a punishment because of their position in power (and with They I mean both Robert and Tywin)

No they don't and that's exactly why Tywin sends  Gregor incógnito, because they can't do that and  it's treason. Tywin could've sent a raven to KL, what he did was stupid and  treasonous. Again, you keep believing your  own hype.

If the Baratheons destroy the Lannisters, they can cancel  their debt, so honestly I can't see  tour certainty.

[Dreadscythe95]

50 minutes ago, frenin said:

He never rebelled, no more than the Arryns did during their own particular civil war, after Jeyne Arryn passes. 

 

He said that the Reach can field muchos more men than the rest of the Kingdoms, nothing else .

 

True.

 

You are again buying your  own hype, when Lannisport is said to be that?? We know that White Harbor is the smallest of the 5 cities but that doesnt mean, very small.

 

And yet we  see  the Vale doing exactly that under LF.

 

 

How so?? With lesser  gold, the more valuable is the metal, Casterly Rock infinity gold, doesnt really help that much  and  we see different Kingdoms using different coinage.

 

 

It was sarcasm, yes the Kingdoms are self sufficient, we see  that along the story, Westeros have a common King and  a common law, that's all. Those Kingdoms have survived thousands of years split.

 

 

 

No they don't and that's exactly why Tywin sends  Gregor incógnito, because they can't do that and  it's treason. Tywin could've sent a raven to KL, what he did was stupid and  treasonous. Again, you keep believing your  own hype.

If the Baratheons destroy the Lannisters, they can cancel  their debt, so honestly I can't see  tour certainty.

Nothig is fiction, what I tell you ahs been told by Martin already. Lannisport is the third biggest city in Westeros sorry. Also The Westerlands have mteal as well (all gold mines do). Also you are usiong the right word, "survived". These Kingdoms survived by doing alliances with some and having War with the rest. Honestly, how much food could The North offer, it's far too cold even in the summer in most places.

Though honestly man I think this convo is going too far for no reason, no offense. You are trying far too much to prove what? That Tywin was afraid to act like that? Cause guess what, he wasn't, that's how Martin wrote the story. Tywin did this bold move becaus ehe knew HE COULD. Tywin is not established as a stupid or reckless character. He obviously had more influence over the Throne than you want to admit.

 

[frenin]

32 minutes ago, Dreadscythe95 said:

Nothig is fiction, what I tell you ahs been told by Martin already.

I very much doubt he ever said that the Reach has more population than the others Kingdoms combined, that's insane and a lot of etc.

 

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 Lannisport is the third biggest city in Westeros sorry.

Not what you said.

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Gulltown is not irrelevant, it's just far weaker than the big 3 which are big economy centers for the whole world. White Harbor is very important because it's the only Northen Harbor. Still we have official info that it's very small (and very beautiful).

We already knew those 3 were the biggest cities in Westeros but you keep trying to disparage the other two cities to prove a point.

 

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Also The Westerlands have mteal as well (all gold mines do).

Not as much as Casterly Rock and even the Reynes metal had already given out.

 

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 Also you are usiong the right word, "survived". These Kingdoms survived by doing alliances with some and having War with the rest. Honestly, how much food could The North offer, it's far too cold even in the summer in most places.

This doesn't make sense but yes, every Kingdom survived for 50000 thosands years, I've never seen the Stormlands, Dorne, the Vale or the Riverlands needing something from those Kingdoms, nor i've ever seen those Kingdoms helping the North with food.

 

 

48 minutes ago, Dreadscythe95 said:

Though honestly man I think this convo is going too far for no reason, no offense. You are trying far too much to prove what? That Tywin was afraid to act like that? Cause guess what, he wasn't, that's how Martin wrote the story. Tywin did this bold move becaus ehe knew HE COULD. Tywin is not established as a stupid or reckless character. He obviously had more influence over the Throne than you want to admit.

Martin wrote the story and he deliberatli made Robert dying before he could ever know all the shit Tywin and his children had been doing but again, I will repeat myself. If the man thought he could raid the Riverlands because of his dick, he would've never sent Gregor without his banners, the man was using plausible deniability and you keep ignoring that fact.

 

[Lady Rhodes]

On 8/5/2019 at 10:17 PM, Mooncalf said:

Tywin didn't give a shit about Tyrion. He only made a big deal about his abduction because it stained the honor of house Lannister. I have a theory about the invasion of the Riverlands really having nothing to do with Tyrion's capture though. Earlier in the book, Ned got reports on Tywin gathering a lot of soilders and sellswords to Casterly Rock for some unknown reason. for the amount of time it would take for a messenger to get from the far side of Westeros, across the narrow sea, and to Qohor to hire The Brave Companions, Tywin would have to already have them at the ready well before Cat kidnaps Tyrion to have them with him. I think he anticipated invading the riverlands and was waiting for an excuse to do so. 

I look forward to finding out what motives Tywin has for his rebellion. He must have been very confident something was gonna go wrong with Ned or had something else in mind for afterwards.

This may have been posted already and I hadn’t read it yet in the replies, but I think you have the right of it. There was also the background issue of wanting Jaime to be Warden of the East. This may all be involved 

[Sourjapes]

I think that Robert would just order Tywin to make peace with the Tullys and for the Imp to be released from the Vale. Why would Tywin defy Robert? He's made his point by avenging his House's honor. You can be sure the next person who makes a rash decision to arrest a Lannister will think twice about it.

Is Robert going to dig into the scheming Tywin did in the prelude to his invasion? I don't think so. Robert will bark an order without looking deeply into it at all and the realm will obey. People scheme against King Robert but other than the Greyjoys they don't defy him.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

On 8/5/2019 at 8:38 PM, EvanSol919 said:

So to briefly summarize - Catelyn captures Tyrion, Jaime flees KL after his confrontation with Ned, Tywin attacks the Riverlands and Robert is killed. But what if Robert hadn't died? What was Tywin's plan on how to deal with Robert, who wouldn't be too happy with Tywin's actions? Just have Tyrion released, make the Starks go back North and then return to Casterly Rock?

To have Robert to die in a tournament melee .

[R2D]

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