Streaming Services (business / market / service, not content-focused)

[Heartofice]

6 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

The Crown... Bridgerton... Derry Girls... Peaky Blinders... The Witcher... Love, Death + Robots...

...not to mention really outstanding first seasons of Squid Game and Arcane

I mean I agree with your point to some extent but not sure this list proves it.

Peaky Blinders and Derry Girls are just UK shows that Netflix has bought and didn’t make. 
 

The Crown has been going since the start of Netflix, a bit like Better Caul Saul, a legacy of Netflix’s initial direction.

The Witcher and Brigerton I would say are EXACTLY what he’s talking about. They seem almost created to please the algorithm. Brigerton cobbles together a number of successful elements and constructs a thing that people will watch.. but is it great tv?

Squid Game is something that just exploded.

Then how long will these shows last? They aren’t designed for longevity.

The point being that great shows that might have been given 4-5 seasons and allowed to grow, are not on Netflix, that’s not how it works. 
 

Oh and on the Ads thing, no I wouldn’t be ok with them. Even now I notice them on other platforms and hate it. Netflix’s core USP is the ability to jump quickly from one thing to another, scan around to find things you like. You can’t do that if you need to watch a few ads before something starts 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

13 minutes ago, felice said:

I certainly would!

You're not most people. By definition you're one people.

As long as they don't overdo it. A 60 second ad break before the opening credits would be fine. 

[mormont]

I'm also absolutely against ads in a product I already paid for. And I think you'll struggle to find anyone who doesn't mind that. Otherwise free products, I'm watching the ads to pay for: that's fine. I understand that. But don't double dip. Don't ask me for a subscription and then make me watch ads.

On Squid Game, that didn't 'just explode'. Netflix promoted it in a canny way so it seemed like that, and then it snowballed. They've done this several times, sometimes to greater or lesser effect, but this is their promotion model - basically, trying to present particular shows as shows that suddenly everyone's talking about, in the vein of the first series of Stranger Things. Hiding their actual viewing figures helps here: best information available suggests Squid Game wasn't as far ahead of other Netflix shows as you might think. But it got the show talked about, and it made Netflix look like a place you can find hidden gems.

[felice]

1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

You're not most people. By definition you're one people.

As long as they don't overdo it. A 60 second ad break before the opening credits would be fine. 

You are also only one person, not most people. Assuming more than about one and a third people exist, which seems like a safe assumption since I'm confident I'm more than a third of a person all by myself.

[Heartofice]

I don't think people like going backwards in general. They don't like paying for things that they already got for free and they don't want ads on things that didn't previously have ads.

I know Amazon Prime has content with adverts in it, the sort of content you couldn't view with just your Prime account, but maybe not premium stuff you'd want to pay for exactly. I think I attempted to watch a movie with ads on to see if I could stomach it... and I couldn't. It's amazing how much it breaks up the experience when you can only watch 10 mins at a time without a break. It's why I don't watch normal tv, something I tend to find utterly painful due to adverts. 

Maybe if Prime just put the adverts at the  beginning it wouldn't be such a problem. But then how many do they need to put on to make it worthwhile for them?

Freeview services here in the UK like Channel 4's All4 service feel like advert overload at times. Often there are 3-5 mins of adverts before the programme! Then another few breaks in between, much like watching on TV. To me that is a real deal breaker and I just don't bother to watch things on there. Why would I when I can just go onto Netflix and watch exactly what I want to watch immediately.

So the question is how many advert breaks would work for Netflix? How many ads at the beginning of a programme is enough? And will that just grow and grow.

Another example is Youtube. They have adverts at the beginnings of videos now, and they have a range of lengths and skipable adverts. For me, if it's a couple of 10 second adverts I'm cool with it, but sometimes there are two 30 second adverts back to back which don't allow you to skip. On Youtube this is also kind of  a deal breaker because it's kind of like a browsing platform for me, often you just click on things to see if they are good or not. Thats not possible if you need to constantly wait for adverts. The quality is so variable and there is so little pre-knowledge of quality that you need that ability to jump around quickly.

I also think Netflix has that quality built into it's brand. There are some platforms that are built around a small number of high quality shows, premium content that people are specifically coming to the platform to watch. Netflix has a bit of that but is also a quantity over quality platform that encourages browsing and scanning for shows and movies. It has a feature that just suggests something to you. How do adverts fit with this model? Not very well I'd suggest. Like YouTube I'm not going to invest time into watching adverts every time I'm just mindlessly scanning for something new to watch or taking a chance on something I've never heard of. 

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

D+ is launching an low cost ad tier that will supposedly available by the end of the year. HBO Max is supposedly looking at it as well. They already have trailers attached to some films and TV shows. Hulu also does it.

And yeah, if the subscription service is literally free, you're going to get a lot of ads. Tubi is ridiculous. Youtube has a selection of films that are free with ads and they can get kind of annoying. Not because of the number of ads but because they tend to get inserted kind of randomly. 

3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Another example is Youtube. They have adverts at the beginnings of videos now, and they have a range of lengths and skipable adverts. For me, if it's a couple of 10 second adverts I'm cool with it, but sometimes there are two 30 second adverts back to back which don't allow you to skip. On Youtube this is also kind of  a deal breaker because it's kind of like a browsing platform for me, often you just click on things to see if they are good or not. Thats not possible if you need to constantly wait for adverts. The quality is so variable and there is so little pre-knowledge of quality that you need that ability to jump around quickly.

Youtube has gotten kind of insane lately. 

6 hours ago, felice said:

You are also only one person, not most people. Assuming more than about one and a third people exist, which seems like a safe assumption since I'm confident I'm more than a third of a person all by myself.

Yeah, well, given a lax attitude toward physical fitness during the pandemic, I'd say I'm considerably more than 1 people at the moment. 

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

7 hours ago, mormont said:

I'm also absolutely against ads in a product I already paid for. And I think you'll struggle to find anyone who doesn't mind that. Otherwise free products, I'm watching the ads to pay for: that's fine. I understand that. But don't double dip. Don't ask me for a subscription and then make me watch ads.

I'm with you on this but it's a fact of life I'm afraid. I pay $10-20 dollars to see a movie and there are commercials mixed in with the previews, which themselves are commercials for other films.

These are low-cost tiers we're talking about.  

Edited April 23, 2022 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[Heartofice]

4 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I'm with you on this but it's a fact of life I'm afraid. I pay $10-20 dollars to see a movie another are commercials mixed in with the previews, which themselves are commercials for other films.

These are low-cost tiers we're talking about.  

I think there is a difference , as per my argument above with the Netflix model and ‘going to see a movie’

Firstly ads before movies has always been a thing, so it’s expected.

But secondly, I’ll usually target a movie I want to watch and go out of my way to watch it. It’s not some random thing I go to off the cuff. I’ve also committed to it by going to the theater, I’m not going to walk out after 10 mins and go watch something  else. ( although I’ve been close to doing that a few times)

Edit.. sorry misread what I think your point was.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Heartofice

[lacuna]

10 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I'm with you on this but it's a fact of life I'm afraid. I pay $10-20 dollars to see a movie another are commercials mixed in with the previews, which themselves are commercials for other films.

These are low-cost tiers we're talking about.  

Obviously I don't know what kind of margins movie theaters operate with, but if that's a way to split the difference - the theater covering its costs of "infrastructure" (locale, screen, projector, AC, seats...) with ads and the movie itself with ticket prices, I'd be OK with that*. If I'm the one supplying the infrastructure, it's less OK.

 

*Me not being a fan of movie theaters notwithstanding.

Edited April 23, 2022 by lacuna
Clarity

[Zorral]

12 hours ago, felice said:

I certainly would!

I would most certainly -- particularly as I'm already paying premium in their terms, the one of unlimited watching for 4 family members, which is us, Our Dear Bubble Friend, and One More.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Zorral

[felice]

Another issue is that for any ad-supported service, the users are the product, not the customer. Even limited advertising shifts the focus of a company for the worse.

[RumHam]

Speaking of streaming advertising, why is Hulu so bad at it? I feel like they should know basic facts about me like that I don't speak spanish and am a dude. Yet I'll get the same spanish-language ad for women's hair products three times watching one show or movie.

I don't think any of the other ones I use have ads. Maybe Paramount +?

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

38 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Speaking of streaming advertising, why is Hulu so bad at it? I feel like they should know basic facts about me like that I don't speak spanish and am a dude. Yet I'll get the same spanish-language ad for women's hair products three times watching one show or movie.

I don't think any of the other ones I use have ads. Maybe Paramount +?

Amazon prime supposedly has ads but I've never used it. Apple TV doesn't at the moment. I don't know about Paramount+. ESPN?

I guarantee all of these guys are looking at low cost tiers with ads. Like I said, D+ will have theirs rolled out within a year. In fact, they've said they need it to reach their subscription target. HBO Max is also looking. 

As long as there's an option to have ads before or after but not during the program, I'd be willing to look at it if it saves me a few bucks a month. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Deadlines? What Deadlines?

[RumHam]

1 hour ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Amazon prime supposedly has ads but I've never used it.

Me neither, I just forget it's a streaming thing. Their interface and crap:decent ratio is the worst of all of them I think.

Also reminded me of IMDBtv which I watched Mad Men on through the prime app. It had ads and they were so jarring because they weren't at the act breaks or anything. They'd just start in the middle of Don Draper's sentence.

[Luzifer's right hand]

I will probably stop using Netflix if they go after password sharing. My mum.and a friend use my account too..

17.99 € is why too expensive for a single user thing and I'm not downgrading to a HD or SD max plan. Disney, Apple and Amazon offer that with their basic accounts.

A singlr user UHD plan that costs less than 10€ is the max I'm willing to pay.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Luzifer's right hand

[Corvinus85]

I believe Paramount+ has the ad and non-ad option. And they play short trailers ahead of anything you watch for the non-ad option.

[RumHam]

I'm still curious how they go after password sharing. Like I regularly use my account from my sister's house (another state) when I'm watching her kid even though they also have Netflix. If they try to interfere with that I'm going to be justifiably pissed.

In many cases it should be pretty easy to tell that people are password sharing outside their household, but there should be enough cases of people who split their time between different IP addresses and devices. Really curious if they have some plan or just will cut everyone off and then restore those who call in and complain with a convincing story.

Even like a kid in college, they should be able to use their family's netflix plan.

Edit: I can't help but think that we should organize people online to just quit the day they launch this. Doesn't have to be forever but if their subscriber numbers really fell off a cliff I wonder if they'd back down.

Edited April 24, 2022 by RumHam

[mormont]

This is the issue, for sure. Netflix don't actually clearly define what a 'household' is. That ambiguity was fine and indeed beneficial when they were expanding but if they want to really go after password sharing, they need to have a robust public definition of what they mean. And that is inevitably going to cause them bad publicity.

[Heartofice]

I’m assuming they would just restrict the number of active devices on an account, but don’t they do that already?

[mormont]

Yes.

From statements Netflix have made we can imply that they consider a 'household' to be people who primarily live at the same address, but they haven't actually said so explicitly in their terms and conditions as far as I can see.