NFL 2019 Preseason: Hard Knockin on Gruden's Door

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

26 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

It's strange to say "we're cursed" but still be convinced you would have crushed the Colts in that Super Bowl. Sean Payton had to get creative to beat the Colts. Would a Vikings team coaches by Brad Childress and Darrell Bevell have been as creative?

Eh, we had an insane amount of talent on the offensive side and we were one of the top defenses. That Colts team didn’t scare me one bit.  

15 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Exactly.  The Vikings have a long history of failing to show up whenever victory seemed within reach, and that Colts team was no joke.  Assuming that a very banged up Brett Favre would have outplayed Peyton Manning is foolish. 

You underestimate Brett’s ability to take pain pills.   

[Maithanet]

14 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Eh, we had an insane amount of talent on the offensive side and we were one of the top defenses. That Colts team didn’t scare me one bit.  

You underestimate Brett’s ability to take pain pills.   

According to Football Outsiders, Minnesota was the #7 team that year, while Indy was #8, so they were pretty comparable.  Add in the fact that Favre had just taken the beating from Bountygate, and he never again played quarterback well, I think that assuming Minnesota was superior is foolish.

But whatever, if that's one of the lies you need to tell yourself, go right ahead.  Just don't expect everybody else on the forum to agree. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

37 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

According to Football Outsiders, Minnesota was the #7 team that year, while Indy was #8, so they were pretty comparable.  Add in the fact that Favre had just taken the beating from Bountygate, and he never again played quarterback well, I think that assuming Minnesota was superior is foolish.

But whatever, if that's one of the lies you need to tell yourself, go right ahead.  Just don't expect everybody else on the forum to agree. 

I dare you to tell that to Percy Harvin’s face.

Also, the team took the last few games off. Measurements like the one you cited don’t tend to take variables like that into account. The Vikings and Saints were clearly the two most dominate teams that year. The winner of the NFC Championship game was going to most likely win it all.

[Maithanet]

8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Also, the team took the last few games off. Measurements like the one you cited don’t tend to take variables like that into account. The Vikings and Saints were clearly the two most dominate teams that year. The winner of the NFC Championship game was going to most likely win it all.

Ok, now this is just getting ridiculous.  The Colts went 14-0 that year!  They were ahead in the fifteenth game until the Colts pulled Peyton Manning for Curtis fucking Painter (along with several other starters) in the second half of both the final two games.  Until the Super Bowl, the Colts were 16-0 in games they were actually trying to win. 

If you're picking the "clearly most dominant" teams of the regular season, there is no question the Colts were one of them. 

Also, why the hell are the Vikings taking games off before they have home field wrapped up?  That's on them.  Maybe a little home cooking would have gotten another roughing penalty or two on those Favre hits.  But we'll never know, since the Vikings apparently felt like they could take a few games off. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

7 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Ok, now this is just getting ridiculous.  The Colts went 14-0 that year!  They were ahead in the fifteenth game until the Colts pulled Peyton Manning for Curtis fucking Painter (along with several other starters) in the second half of both the final two games.  Until the Super Bowl, the Colts were 16-0 in games they were actually trying to win. 

If you're picking the "clearly most dominant" teams of the regular season, there is no question the Colts were one of them. 

Also, why the hell are the Vikings taking games off before they have home field wrapped up?  That's on them.  Maybe a little home cooking would have gotten another roughing penalty or two on those Favre hits.  But we'll never know, since the Vikings apparently felt like they could take a few games off. 

You just proved my point in that the measurement you cited is not reliable, so thanks. But this just gets to the larger point that I never feared the Colts despite also arguing that Manning is probably the greatest QB ever, at least in the sense that he is the most likely to thrive in any situation you put him in. Their overall rosters have never been all that good, and if you have a complete team, which the Vikings and Saints were, you can beat them. It’s why Brady ate Peyton’s lunch for over a decade.

As to the Vikings blowing games late in the year, that’s nothing new. They do it all the time when they have strong playoff teams. Idk why it persists, but they are consistently the track runner who celebrates too early and has someone run by them at the finish line. It’s who they are.

[Maithanet]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Their overall rosters have never been all that good, and if you have a complete team, which the Vikings and Saints were, you can beat them. It’s why Brady ate Peyton’s lunch for over a decade.

Except for the year we're talking about, when the Colts beat the Patriots in week 10, and the Patriots got eliminated by the Ravens in the Wild Card round. 

Quote

As to the Vikings blowing games late in the year, that’s nothing new. They do it all the time when they have strong playoff teams. Idk why it persists, but they are consistently the track runner who celebrates too early and has someone run by them at the finish line. It’s who they are.

So you're arguing that the 2009 Vikings had a weird tendency to lose games they shouldn't otherwise?  I agree. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

21 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Except for the year we're talking about, when the Colts beat the Patriots in week 10, and the Patriots got eliminated by the Ravens in the Wild Card round. 

I’m not going to bother to look it up because I trust you, but that’s a small sample. Overall Peyton’s Colts never scared me that much, at least not after their big three broke up. Peyton masked a lot of poor management, which makes it odd to say that his two Owls were won largely because of the defense, not him.

Quote

So you're arguing that the 2009 Vikings had a weird tendency to lose games they shouldn't otherwise?  I agree. 

Not just in 2009. It’s been like that for the 20 plus years I’ve watched football.

[Maithanet]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I’m not going to bother to look it up because I trust you, but that’s a small sample. Overall Peyton’s Colts never scared me that much, at least not after their big three broke up. Peyton masked a lot of poor management, which makes it odd to say that his two Owls were won largely because of the defense, not him.

Sure.  But we're talking about whether the Colts could beat good teams like the Vikings in a theoretical Super Bowl.  They did go 14-0, and they did have three wins over teams FO rated in the top 5 (the Ravens(#1) twice and the Patriots (#4)).  The idea that the Colts would have stood little chance is simply wrong.  Particularly when you admit that the 2009 Vikings had a weird tendency to lose games they should win, and that Brett Favre may have been a complete wreck after the pounding he got in the Saints game. 

[Jace, Extat]

Colts had a better matchup against Minnesota. AP would have run on them like beating a child, but the Colts would have won pretty certainly. 

Minn. Had a great front seven, but Antoine Winfield and Cedric Griffin weren't going to stop that 09 Colts passing game. The Saints won that game with a critical turnover as a defense that had built Greg William's reputation on takeaways. Their strength matched up to the Colts and with the help of Hank Baskett saw the day.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

30 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Sure.  But we're talking about whether the Colts could beat good teams like the Vikings in a theoretical Super Bowl.  They did go 14-0, and they did have three wins over teams FO rated in the top 5 (the Ravens(#1) twice and the Patriots (#4)).  The idea that the Colts would have stood little chance is simply wrong.  Particularly when you admit that the 2009 Vikings had a weird tendency to lose games they should win, and that Brett Favre may have been a complete wreck after the pounding he got in the Saints game. 

I mean sure the Colts could have won, I just think the Vikings would have been the favorite even if Favre was beat up. We would have run the ball down their throats all day long. Jace is right to point out that our secondary wasn’t elite, but I think we wouldn’t have had a ton of trouble getting to Manning. That Vikings team could have gone down as an all-time great team if they didn’t choke it all away, which is the quintessential last words of every great Vikings team.

[Jace, Extat]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I mean sure the Colts could have won, I just think the Vikings would have been the favorite even if Favre was beat up. We would have run the ball down their throats all day long. Jace is right to point out that our secondary wasn’t elite, but I think we wouldn’t have had a ton of trouble getting to Manning. That Vikings team could have gone down as an all-time great team if they didn’t choke it all away, which is the quintessential last words of every great Vikings team.

And the final insult is me left debating precedence of glory a decade gone.

Fuck, but every time I think I'm getting closer to actually breaking up with this shitheel league they draw me back in.

[Maithanet]

7 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

And the final insult is me left debating precedence of glory a decade gone.

Fuck, but every time I think I'm getting closer to actually breaking up with this shitheel league they draw me back in.

And yet I doubt I'd have the energy to debate similarly irrelevant points about something that happened just last year.  For example, we haven't (on this forum) even once debated whether KC would have defeated NE in the AFCCG if they hadn't cut Hunt.  And that question is far more relevant to the league going forward than a 10 year old non-game.  The reason isn't that the 09 Vikings vs Colts is more interesting, it's just that I cared (and to some extent still care) more about the 2009 NFL than I do the 2019 version. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

And the final insult is me left debating precedence of glory a decade gone.

Fuck, but every time I think I'm getting closer to actually breaking up with this shitheel league they draw me back in.

It's stronger than heroin. 

3 hours ago, Maithanet said:

And yet I doubt I'd have the energy to debate similarly irrelevant points about something that happened just last year.  For example, we haven't (on this forum) even once debated whether KC would have defeated NE in the AFCCG if they hadn't cut Hunt.  And that question is far more relevant to the league going forward than a 10 year old non-game.  The reason isn't that the 09 Vikings vs Colts is more interesting, it's just that I cared (and to some extent still care) more about the 2009 NFL than I do the 2019 version. 

Pretty much this. Every season I care less and less. A decade ago I would watch every game I could. These days watching my team and maybe one more game is usually I can muster unless nothing is going on and the weather outside sucks.

[Rockroi]

So, late to the start of the season; just returned from a cruise with the family so this is the first chance I had a to comment on the stories of the NFL pre-season.  So lets get started:

Tom Brady getting along great with his receiver talent.  So, obviously, the largest story of the pre-season is that Tom Brady looks great and so do all his receivers.,  End of list. 

Thank you.  See you on opening day.  

 

Alright in all seriousness. 

Andrew Luck is Smart and Most of His Fans Are Fucking Low-Life, Stupid, Apple-Sucking, Shit-Eating, Drooling Cousin Fuckers: Okay, so after the 19th near-career ending injury ((which includes a lacerated kidney which made him piss blood), Andrew Luck decided "Fuck. This. Shit."  And Retired.  Outright retired.  And this caused people to lose their shit.  This included fans in Indy who boo'd him.  Then, some ass-hat on Fox Sports said something which had the completely unforeseeable side-effect of making Troy Aikman sound smart. 

I say, fuck that.  Andrew Luck is not your bitch.  He owes us nothing.  He made a rational, logical decision which nets him the vast majority of his health, millions in the bank and a secure future.  Plus he won;t piss much blood from here on out.  

God Fucking Indianapolis is a cesspool.; a city, filled with miserable people. Booing somebody for making a rational choice. No wonder you voted for Trump. I honestly hate that whole state.

SPIDER TWO Y BANANA!!!!!  I cannot stop watching HBO HardKnocks: Raiders as everyone there DESPERATELY acts like they are a competent football team.  Its fucking priceless.  Its like watching the entire crew of the Titanic as the ship is taking off everyone convinced of how great their ship is.  And its a fucking disaster!  And all I cn think the whole time is what the HELL did that production negotiation look like?  Because theya re NOT talking about so much!  It had to be like:

HBO EXEC: Well, we want to have Gruden in like every shot just saying bat-shit crazy stuff. 

RAIDERS EXEC: Well, we can give you as much Gruden airtime as you like but please, for the love of Christ, please do not mention the fact that Gruden traded the franchise future in Khaliel Mack for like pocket change and a sofa throw pillow.  Oh, and also, no mention of the fact that Amari Cooper got traded and that made him, you know, actually perform. 

HBOE: Okay, sure.  But then we get to have Antonio Brown on every show.

RE: (laughs to himself, confident that Brown won;t do too much crazy this season, like flash-freeze his feet or lose his shit over a helmet) Okay, but then you have to make Richie Incognito seem like a functional human being. 

HBOE: That's clinically impossible.  But we'll try.

RE; Oh, and one more thing- don't mention the fact that we are moving to Las Vegas in a clear attempt to destroy the franchise.  

I love this show and will make me overrate every Raiders for the first 6 weeks of the season.

Rob Gronkowski is OFFICIALLY retired: Earlier today, Gronk was out pushing his new CBD product when he broke down into near-tears about an injury he suffered during the Superbowl that he played through and made him cry that night and get like no sleep for 4 weeks.  I saw the play and looks like a hit he has taken 100 times before; utterly unremarkable.  And if this fucking guy was taking that type of punishment every week for the last 8 years.  Fuck me; he should have retired 6 years ago.  Listening to him I was convinced he was not coming back.  Not now, not ever.  

Zeke is Holding Out. Again.  Jerry Jones is to building a roster what Jerry Lewis is to building a roster.  

Browns Look Good.  Fucking shame what will happen to them in week 7. 

Send in the Clowny: So its like week 3 of the pre-season and JUST NOW the Texans realized they have no left tackle so, yeah, Deshaun Watson's funeral is October 9th.  To fight off the inevitable, Bill O'Brien (who I still think is a good NFL coach despite the evidence), may have to trade Javeon (not looking it up) Clowney.  So, Washington DC will overpay for that; you got that to look forward to.  

The Chiefs gave Carlos Hyde an $800,000.00 signing bonus and are probably going to cut him.  Awesome. I can't believe I was afraid of this organization in January. 

That Fat Fuck Is Such a Fat Fuck: Ben Rothlisberger said that Antonio Brown and he were friends; only to have Brown say that he and Big Ben were never friends.  Which is the least crazy thing Antonio has said in 8 seasons.  

Washington DC: So... you killed Jordan Reed.  Great work, assholes.  

 

[Jace, Extat]

I'll agree to that. Terribly boring season. Show sucks.

[dbunting]

I haven't seen the newest episode yet, but for me the only reason to watch is Johnathan Abrams. No idea why but whenever he is on the show I stop whatever I am doing and actually pay attention. He just seems like an honest, real person and has a good personality. 

[Rockroi]

4 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I'll agree to that. Terribly boring season. Show sucks.

Antonio Brown makes up for the boring parts.  I will agree that they are not focusing so much on the rookies or "bubble" players and I think that was another thing negotiated away.  

I think that the show and the way the teams interface with the show is now extremely "managed" and that removes much of the honesty and some of the entertainment.  But they make up for it with Gruden, Antonio Brown being a total diva, the back-up QB battle and the inanity of camp generally.  

Maybe its an allegory for my relationship with pro-football: its brutally honest in the ways I want and I watch even though I know its a series of corporations showing me what they want me to see and as little else as possible.  

[Jace, Extat]

1 hour ago, Rockroi said:

Antonio Brown makes up for the boring parts.  I will agree that they are not focusing so much on the rookies or "bubble" players and I think that was another thing negotiated away.  

I think that the show and the way the teams interface with the show is now extremely "managed" and that removes much of the honesty and some of the entertainment.  But they make up for it with Gruden, Antonio Brown being a total diva, the back-up QB battle and the inanity of camp generally.  

Maybe its an allegory for my relationship with pro-football: its brutally honest in the ways I want and I watch even though I know its a series of corporations showing me what they want me to see and as little else as possible.  

Fair, well said.

[Maithanet]

Any chance that the Redskins and Texans agree to a blockbuster Clowney for Trent Williams trade?  Clowney wants out and is making himself a distraction, and Williams is no longer willing to ignore the incompetence of the Washington Scumbags.  The Texans desperately need O-line help, so it's a great fit for them and their desire to keep Watson alive.  The Scumbags would be getting a lot younger, and would save some salary cap space too.  Washington is going to go 5-11 this year either way, so might as well do it, right?  The downside for them is that without Williams the small hope of Haskins developing is further diminished, but who cares about player development?  Certainly not Washington. 

Thoughts?  Feel free to go get a drink of water if that post was a little salty for ya. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I don't know if you're a father yet Maith, but your dad joke game is already strong. 

And yes, of course you make that trade. You have to assume you're without Williams either way, so you might as well get the best run stuffing edge rusher in the game in the process.