Daendrew Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 What does it mean that someone is "worthy" of wielding Dawn? Is it prowess? Chivalry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alienarea Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Finding it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted August 8, 2019 Author Share Posted August 8, 2019 14 minutes ago, alienarea said: Finding it? Someone on Reddit said it may be a sword in the stone kind of thing because the last person to wield it was Arthur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewolfStark Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 I also think it's a sword in the stone kind of thing because Dayne is a Marvel comics reference. I mean House Sarsfield is a Green Arrow DC comics reference House Bettley is a Blue Beetle DC comics reference. And GRRM has admitted to loving Marvel's silver age, and if we look up Marvel's silver age we get: Dane Whitman (aka The Black Knight), who is Quote [t]he third character to bear the Black Knight name, he was created by writer Roy Thomas, John Verpoorten and artist George Tuska, and first appeared in The Avengers #47 (December 1967). The original Black Knight's descendant and the supervillain Black Knight's nephew, he inherited a mystical sword that carried a curse and took the Black Knight name to help restore honor, and has been a long time member of the Avengers' various incarnations As for that mystical sword: Quote The Ebony Blade was created by comic book writer Stan Lee in Black Knight Comics #1, published under Atlas Comics in 1955. Its history was later revealed in Marvel Super-Heroes #17 (November, 1968), written by Roy Thomas. The blade was shown to have been carved from a meteor, and enchanted by the wizard Merlin for Sir Percy of Scandia, the first Black Knight. Because of all the blood that Sir Percy shed with the blade, it acquired a curse. The sword passed down through the generations until it finally came to Dane Whitman, Sir Percy's descendant. Dane used the blade for many years. It passed briefly to Valkyrie when Dane's body was turned to stone,[1] and his soul sent back in time to the 13th century, but was soon returned to him.[2][3]Due to the curse, Dane eventually gave the Blade up. He drove it deep into the same meteor it was forged from, now residing in his castle. Only another deemed worthy would be able to withdraw it. The Ebony Blade was afflicted with a blood curse due to all the blood the original Black Knight had spilled. Dane Whitman eventually purged the Blade of its curse at Doctor Strange's behest by plunging it into the Brazier of Truth while Strange bathed them both in magic fire. The curse returned, however, when the Sub-Mariner used it to kill his wife Marrina. The curse seems to affect different people in different ways. It turned Dane into a statue, it amplified Proctor's gann'josin-based powers, and it granted Sean Dolan great physical powers as Bloodwraith. The Blade was sometimes known to subtly compel Dane to do things or go places that were tied to its previous wielders, as well. So yeah, I bet part of what Aero Hotah is going to be witnessing (besides Obara Sand's desire to kill Darkstar) is how we get to Starfall (as a side quest) where we'll find Dawn jammed back into the meteor it was made from, waiting for the next "Sword of the Morning" to pull it and prove themselves worthy. I also think Dawn will have some kind of curse on it as well and those who do well against the curse get called "Sword of the Morning" while those who don't do well against the curse get called "Sword of the Evening". So yeah, I think House Dayne is just one big Marvel Comics reference, because George's a fanboy. https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_small/3/31666/4914803-blkknght2015001-cov-b778f.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted August 9, 2019 Author Share Posted August 9, 2019 5 hours ago, WhitewolfStark said: I also think it's a sword in the stone kind of thing because Dayne is a Marvel comics reference. I mean House Sarsfield is a Green Arrow DC comics reference House Bettley is a Blue Beetle DC comics reference. And GRRM has admitted to loving Marvel's silver age, and if we look up Marvel's silver age we get: Dane Whitman (aka The Black Knight), who is As for that mystical sword: So yeah, I bet part of what Aero Hotah is going to be witnessing (besides Obara Sand's desire to kill Darkstar) is how we get to Starfall (as a side quest) where we'll find Dawn jammed back into the meteor it was made from, waiting for the next "Sword of the Morning" to pull it and prove themselves worthy. I also think Dawn will have some kind of curse on it as well and those who do well against the curse get called "Sword of the Morning" while those who don't do well against the curse get called "Sword of the Evening". So yeah, I think House Dayne is just one big Marvel Comics reference, because George's a fanboy.https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_small/3/31666/4914803-blkknght2015001-cov-b778f.jpg Wow. You get a sticker AND a cookie. I’ve never heard this. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 On 8/8/2019 at 4:56 PM, Daendrew said: What does it mean that someone is "worthy" of wielding Dawn? Is it prowess? Chivalry? Consider how they value courage and skill at arms. It’s a pretty bet that Samwell Tarly won’t make the cut. On 8/8/2019 at 4:56 PM, Daendrew said: What does it mean that someone is "worthy" of wielding Dawn? Is it prowess? Chivalry? Honor and faithfulness to duty. Something Jon Snow is not. He’s not worthy even if he is part Dayne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon The Black Dragon Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 On 8/8/2019 at 4:56 PM, Daendrew said: What does it mean that someone is "worthy" of wielding Dawn? Is it prowess? Chivalry? It's probably a combination of prowess, chivalry and other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 We have no idea. But considering that the Lord or Lady Dayne of Starfall would likely have to make the decision who to hand the sword to, it seems clear that whatever they, personally, think makes a man worthy to bear Dawn is going to be the deciding factor. This is not a decision made by a committee consisting of the universally-acknowledged experts on courage and prowess, after all. In that sense, chances are pretty good that competent and less competent have been made Sword of the Morning never mind that only worthy men are supposed to get Dawn - precisely because basically nobody should be able to prevent a Lord or Lady of Starfall to bestow the sword on a man they want to have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platypus Rex Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 You have to be a True Knight, obviously. It's a tough job, but somebody's got to do it. I guess poor Sandor is going to have to leave the Quiet Isle after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platypus Rex Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 12 minutes ago, Lord Varys said: But considering that the Lord or Lady Dayne of Starfall would likely have to make the decision who to hand the sword to, it seems clear that whatever they, personally, think makes a man worthy to bear Dawn is going to be the deciding factor. The current Lord of Starfall is Edric Dayne, aged 12, formerly of the Brotherhood Without Banners, whereabouts currently unknown. So next time you see a tall warrior with blue eyes, carrying a large magic sword, and with a shooting star on his shield, traveling in the company of a shy 12-year old boy, don't assume it is Brienne and Pod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 16 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said: The current Lord of Starfall is Edric Dayne, aged 12, formerly of the Brotherhood Without Banners, whereabouts currently unknown. So next time you see a tall warrior with blue eyes, carrying a large magic sword, and with a shooting star on his shield, traveling in the company of a shy 12-year old boy, don't assume it is Brienne and Pod. Pretty sure Darkstar is just going to take Dawn, no matter what the absent Lord of Starfall thinks of it. Edric is just a boy, and somewhere in the Riverlands, but Dawn is there for the taking. And Darkstar is Darkstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platypus Rex Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Lord Varys said: Pretty sure Darkstar is just going to take Dawn, no matter what the absent Lord of Starfall thinks of it. Edric is just a boy, and somewhere in the Riverlands, but Dawn is there for the taking. And Darkstar is Darkstar. Why? Because it subverts expectations? Magic swords are not necessary for murdering children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Map Guy Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 The title of the Sword of the Morning = The title of the Black Panther in Marvel Comics! Ser Arthur Dayne = T'Challa Dawn = Vibranium Starfall = Wakanda The Smiling Knight = Achebe Kingswood Brotherhood = Achebe's forces rebelling in Wakanda Edric Dayne (future title holder of the Sword of the Morning) = Erik Killmonger (a titleholder of the Black Panther) I actually don't believe the last one is intentional, I just threw it out for fun since Edric & Erik sounds similar lol Also Ned Stark actually held Dawn for a little bit, and Edric "Ned" Dayne is named for Ned Stark (maybe?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Urgandy Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 12” or above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 9 hours ago, Platypus Rex said: Why? Because it subverts expectations? Magic swords are not necessary for murdering children. No, because he is the only Dayne around with the prowess to wield it. And because High Hermitage is likely not that far away from Starfall - which lacks a lord and possibly also men defending it (if we assume the Daynes also sent men to Doran's armies in the mountains, which they likely did). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyser1 Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 Must be willing to trade their honor and pledge to the king to save 500,000+ people. Guess who? Hint, yellow hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynnS Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 Quote A Feast for Crows - Brienne IV Crabb thought that was hilarious. "The Perfect Knight? The Perfect Fool, he sounds like. What's the point o' having some magic sword if you don't bloody well use it?" "Honor," she said. "The point is honor." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platypus Rex Posted August 15, 2019 Share Posted August 15, 2019 11 hours ago, Lord Varys said: No, because he is the only Dayne around with the prowess to wield it. What I guess you mean is that there are no Daynes around with the prowess to wield it, so we might as well give it to Gerold, who's only qualification is that he is a total piece of shite, with the demonstrated ability to murder little girls with poisoned blades. Oh yeah, and Arianne thinks he's kinda hot. However, the possibility exists that one can marry into House Dayne, or otherwise become a knight of House Dayne by other methods being born a "Dayne". The Dornish, after all, have different customs. And Alyria Dayne is short one fiancée. 11 hours ago, Lord Varys said: And because High Hermitage is likely not that far away from Starfall - which lacks a lord and possibly also men defending it (if we assume the Daynes also sent men to Doran's armies in the mountains, which they likely did). Well, if it is going to be taken by force, then Gerold's last name is obviously irrelevant. But of course it is probably irrelevant anyway, as he does not come from the right House Dayne. And if Starfall is now unguarded, it may also be that Dawn is not there any more. How many years and books has it been since GRRM told us Dawn was at Starfall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 On 8/8/2019 at 4:56 PM, Daendrew said: What does it mean that someone is "worthy" of wielding Dawn? Is it prowess? Chivalry? That's for the Daynes to determine. I would imagine that different Daynes from different periods would have different standards. I don't expect to learn that there's a checklist with, say, 10 items and only someone who can check at least 8 will get the sword and title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FictionIsntReal Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 On 8/14/2019 at 8:28 PM, Platypus Rex said: The current Lord of Starfall is Edric Dayne, aged 12, formerly of the Brotherhood Without Banners, whereabouts currently unknown. So next time you see a tall warrior with blue eyes, carrying a large magic sword, and with a shooting star on his shield, traveling in the company of a shy 12-year old boy, don't assume it is Brienne and Pod. Who's the tall warrior with blue eyes traveling with Edric and Dawn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.