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Football: A New Hope


Iskaral Pust

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It went under the radar a little with Zouma’s nightmare, but Azpilicueta was very poor today, carrying on his decline from last season. With the inexperienced squad and transfer ban that will be a real worry if it continues. It might be worth trying him at centre back with Reece James coming in, to cover their deficiencies there and as that is where his best performances have come in the past few years (albeit in a back 3).

I was surprised United’s fourth stood. Zouma was down with a head injury for the entire move. Even some of United’s players were calling for play to be halted before the counter got going.

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12 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Why was Dalot not on the bench today? Injured? I nearly had a heart attack when Shaw started limping and Young warmed up.

Haven't heard of any injury. Solskjaer probably prefers the experience of Young off the bench at the moment - he did name him club captain afterall. I hope Dalot does get decent game time this season though as we do need to start moving on from Young and Dalot is capable of playing both fullback positions as well. 

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2 minutes ago, Consigliere said:

Haven't heard of any injury. Solskjaer probably prefers the experience of Young off the bench at the moment - he did name him club captain afterall. I hope Dalot does get decent game time this season though as we do need to start moving on from Young and Dalot is capable of playing both fullback positions as well. 


He's also just looked really good most times he's played and I don't understand why he isn't getting more opportunity, especially since Solskjaer is otherwise so keen on youth.

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Interesting discussion after the Chelsea United game as to whether too many teams are trying to stick to their principles when playing bigger opposition, when being more pragmatic might be a cleverer idea.

Certainly watching Norwich trying to split their centre backs and pass out from the back against Liverpool where you wondered why they though that was the best tactic.

We’ll see as the season goes on, I’m not sure it’s quite so easy to switch systems and suddenly do a Burnley 

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So now my dad thanks United will overtake Liverpool this season and finish second.  I told him he should be writing for a tabloid sports page, they’d love his sharp reflexes.

Embarrassing for Chelsea, and especially for Lampard.  They had “control” of the game but conceded soft goals under little pressure and didn’t finish any of their own chances.  Zouma and Azpilicueta had nightmare games.  It was a bizarre team selection to leave Jorginho exposed like that, plus it meant starting three players who were on loan last season who would have limited fluency in this team (and two of them only played Championship level).  Although Zouma did well at Everton, it suddenly looks terrible to have sold Luiz like that.  Rudiger and Christensen will probably be first choice anyway, but it was a bad moment to have that decision play out so poorly.  I know Rudiger, Reece and CHO are out injured but it was bizarre to have Kante, Giroud, Willian and Pulisic all on the bench after playing the preseason games.  How lacking in fitness can they be?  

For United, the formation/style that I suggested was successful for them.  That’s what suits the players they have.  I doubt most opponents will press forward and leave so much space for counterattacks, but they get to start with a morale-boosting win.  They got a big positive from DDG making good saves and their new signings looking solid.  Hard to know what to expect from them since OGS already produced a hot streak and then a truly abysmal streak.  They could be a bipolar team (and fanbase) all season.

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Some people might be getting too carried away with yesterday's result. We still face an uphill battle just to finish fourth. Despite the margin of victory (which was flattering), our midfield was being overrun for large portions of the game - this was a foreseeable issue which was not addressed during the transfer window. We really do need to put points on the board before the domestic cups and EL starts up because once that happens those midfield cracks are going to turn into craters and I foresee us starting to struggle.

If we don't dip into the market in January then 6th place is the best case scenario for us. Solskjaer also probably needs to do what Klopp does i.e. send out a reserve team in the domestic cups in the hopes of getting knocked out early so the main squad can just concentrate on two competitions. 

For Chelsea, Lampard will need to take stock of his tactics. He had his front 4 stay up the field when the team was without possession - this helped in the attacking phase but left them vulnerable in the defensive phase. It's a viable tactic against the weak teams but is going to give Chelsea a defensive headache against the better sides even with Kante and Rudiger on the pitch. I also think that we will be saying "if only Chelsea took their chances" quite a bit this season. Their CF options don't look to have enough goals in them and neither do their wide players and this time there is no Hazard to carry the team. 

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1 hour ago, Consigliere said:

Some people might be getting too carried away with yesterday's result. We still face an uphill battle just to finish fourth. Despite the margin of victory (which was flattering), our midfield was being overrun for large portions of the game - this was a foreseeable issue which was not addressed during the transfer window. We really do need to put points on the board before the domestic cups and EL starts up because once that happens those midfield cracks are going to turn into craters and I foresee us starting to struggle.

If we don't dip into the market in January then 6th place is the best case scenario for us. Solskjaer also probably needs to do what Klopp does i.e. send out a reserve team in the domestic cups in the hopes of getting knocked out early so the main squad can just concentrate on two competitions. 

For Chelsea, Lampard will need to take stock of his tactics. He had his front 4 stay up the field when the team was without possession - this helped in the attacking phase but left them vulnerable in the defensive phase. It's a viable tactic against the weak teams but is going to give Chelsea a defensive headache against the better sides even with Kante and Rudiger on the pitch. I also think that we will be saying "if only Chelsea took their chances" quite a bit this season. Their CF options don't look to have enough goals in them and neither do their wide players and this time there is no Hazard to carry the team. 

That's a pretty balanced assessment, although playing down your chances a little too much.  With Chelsea probably short of goals, and Arsenal likely to concede a shed load, United's current squad is definitely competitive for top 4.  The midfield won't control possession in many games, but Leicester already won a title by by-passing their MF entirely.  Pogba can be Drinkwater with a much higher ceiling.  The main question is whether Rashford and Martial can both exceed 20 goals this season, which would approximately double their prior average, albeit with Lukaku, Sanchez and Zlatan previously crowding out some of their playing time and preferred positioning.  

A lot will depend on whether the EL games give United some additional practice matches against weaker teams to build cohesion and momentum, or just add fatigue and injuries.

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It has been widely reported for more than a year that Alderweireld's contract expires in 2020 but I had forgotten that Vertonghen's does too.  Davinson Sanchez is obviously their future, but Spurs also need to decide pretty soon whether they will risk losing their two best CBs.

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Maybe Real Madrid will still come in for Eriksen. I think Levy would be open to selling for a lesser price outside the league. Losing Eriksen at this point would be a big blow though (we saw at the weekend just how important he is) - Ndombele and Lo Celso are quality players but there's always that risk of new players taking a bit of time to really get going. 

Rumours are that both Barca and Real are vying for Neymar - I don't think Real will make any further signings if they land Neymar but it looks like Barca are the frontrunners. 

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1 hour ago, Soylent Brown said:

The biggest issue for Spurs is that they could potentially find themselves having to replace Alderweireld, Vertonghen and Eriksen without having received any money from their departures.

I think we'll see more and more of this kind of thing in the future if prices stay the same- players signing shorter contracts and running them down rather than being priced out of moves.

This is why Klopp keeps saying that all of the contract extensions effectively are the transfers for Liverpool.  The club has done a good job of tying up key players to long contracts, but that leaves the club with the risk of future injuries, loss of form, stagnation, etc.  It also means that Liverpool are committed to higher wages.  Spurs may lose transfer fees for some of their senior players, but they also saved a lot on wages in recent years.  That's a big trade-off that helped them to stay competitive near the top of the table while building a stadium.

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15 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Interesting discussion after the Chelsea United game as to whether too many teams are trying to stick to their principles when playing bigger opposition, when being more pragmatic might be a cleverer idea. 

Certainly watching Norwich trying to split their centre backs and pass out from the back against Liverpool where you wondered why they though that was the best tactic.

We’ll see as the season goes on, I’m not sure it’s quite so easy to switch systems and suddenly do a Burnley  

 

 

I think in the end teams should stick to the system that is theirs. It might lead to them getting beaned occasionally, but look at Bournemouth - they are a better team for always playing like they do, and year on year are able to beat more teams more easily doing so. If they switched to hard defence for bigger games, their attacking play would not be as good. And as you say, it's not that easy to switch systems (although Burnley are a team who actually do that pretty well, since they're nowhere near as defensive as Liverpool fans make them out to be most of the time).

Like just from this weekend, they have to manage morale, but on a technical level Norwich will learn from that, and West Ham will not be a worse side for 90 minutes practice of trying to get their attacking 3 midfielders in and around Haller against a team as good as City.

 

4 hours ago, Consigliere said:

It's a viable tactic against the weak teams but is going to give Chelsea a defensive headache against the better sides even with Kante and Rudiger on the pitch.


I mean, a fully fit Kante is going to make a huge difference, he's still possibly the best midfielder in the world for my money when he's played in his right position, until proven otherwise. It's hard to over-estimate how much difference he makes to not just winning the ball back but turning it over fast for counter-attacks. And they won't need to play Barkley every time. They definitely need more practice at it but I think ultimately goals is going to be a bigger issue for them than defensive holes.

 

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4 hours ago, Soylent Brown said:

I think we'll see more and more of this kind of thing in the future if prices stay the same- players signing shorter contracts and running them down rather than being priced out of moves.

Apart from the loss of security (admittedly quite a big deal, especially in the case of a career-ending injury), it's better for a player to sign a short-term contract as they'd much rather having higher wages than high transfer fees (of which they receive nothing, or very little). If they can run them down and move on free transfers, generally clubs will be able to justify giving them higher wages. Apparently this was the reasoning behind Ferguson letting some long-time United players go for relatively low fees (Phil Neville, Nicky Butt) in order to give them leverage to get higher wages.

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4 hours ago, Jeor said:

Apart from the loss of security (admittedly quite a big deal, especially in the case of a career-ending injury), it's better for a player to sign a short-term contract as they'd much rather having higher wages than high transfer fees (of which they receive nothing, or very little). If they can run them down and move on free transfers, generally clubs will be able to justify giving them higher wages. Apparently this was the reasoning behind Ferguson letting some long-time United players go for relatively low fees (Phil Neville, Nicky Butt) in order to give them leverage to get higher wages.

Players can buy injury insurance at relatively reasonable cost to address exactly this situation.  I believe the market was created in the US for NFL and NBA where a lot of players will try free agency at some point, and need protection against injury in the final year or two of their contract.

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10 hours ago, polishgenius said:

I think in the end teams should stick to the system that is theirs. It might lead to them getting beaned occasionally, but look at Bournemouth - they are a better team for always playing like they do, and year on year are able to beat more teams more easily doing so. If they switched to hard defence for bigger games, their attacking play would not be as good. And as you say, it's not that easy to switch systems (although Burnley are a team who actually do that pretty well, since they're nowhere near as defensive as Liverpool fans make them out to be most of the time).

I'm not sure Bournemouth are a great example. Last season they conceded more goals than almost anyone outside of the dire Fulham and Huddersfield. They were defensively terrible at times and while I'm a fan of Eddie Howe, he is probably a good example of someone who at times might consider being more pragmatic. Bournemouth have also regressed and dropped further down the league in the past 3 seasons. 
 

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It was never going to be easy going to Old Trafford to start Chelsea's season, but we made it far too easy for Man United. Once we started chasing the game and throwing numbers forward, we were left too open at the back, with the defensive having very little protection from the midfield. In the first half, I thought our midfield did a good job on the ball and off it, but that fell away early in the second. Hopefully, the return of Kante to the first team will help that, as he covers the ground quick and is our best midfielder for winning the ball back.

Despite what Mourinho suggested in the Sky Sports studio after the game, our young players didn't play badly at all. Mason Mount (along with Emerson) was one of the brightest spots of the game for Chelsea. Mount made clever runs and had some cute interchanges with the players around him. He certainly didn't look out of his depth making his PL debut away to Old Trafford. Abraham didn't have much to work with, in fairness, but I didn't look at his performance and think we'd have been much better had Giroud played in his place. 

A lot of criticism has come in for Azpilicueta, which, at times, I feel is unfair on him. He isn't the typical modern day full back; the way he plays as a full back looks more unnatural, especially when compared to Emerson on the other side, who clearly fits the bill of the modern full back. Azpilicueta, though, can produce a very good cross, and with towering forwards like Giroud and Abraham at Chelsea, that may come in handy, even if he lacks the capacity to drive forward and beat his man (Azpi prefers to run into space and cross or play one-twos to get around his opposite number). 

What is interesting about Azpi, though, is that he was signed for Chelsea as a right back - that is his 'natural' position. Despite this, his best form came playing as a left back under Mourinho and a right centre back under Conte. Last season was probably the first time he didn't perform to the highest of standards, and that was his first season playing at right back since 2012-13, which was his first season at the club. Last season he did chip in with some assists and had some strong defensive performances, such as the home 2-0 victory against Man City, but overall, his form dipped since he started being asked to play as an offensive full back, which it looks like Lampard wants him to continue doing.

Reece James is the young player at Chelsea I am most looking forward to seeing play in the first team, and once he comes back from injury, he may have his chance to take Azpi's place. If he does, I would like to see Frank give Azpi a chance at centre back. He has played there briefly a few times last season during a few games, but was at his best as RCB in a back three under Conte. Centre-back is definitely different in a three compared to a four, but his defensive qualities are his main strength. He may not be the tallest, but centre forwards are no longer all big guys over 6 feet. Azpi is still our captain, so if James was to take his place at right back, our backline would be lacking leadership without his presence.

As for Man United, I have to say how impressed I was by Maguire on his debut. Wan-Bissaka and James can be pleased with their contributions as well. What Man United were able to show was just how good of a counter attacking team they are. If teams come to Old Trafford and try to push up and play as expansively as Chelsea did, Man United will pick them off, but after such a strong counter attacking performance and such a naïve defensive set up from Chelsea, I'd say all opposition teams will have learned a lot from that game about how not to set up against Man United. If Man United are able to adapt their style of play so that they can control games and break teams down, they will be a serious proposition this year, but that has been an aspect of Man United's game that they have struggled at over the past few seasons. It will be an interesting watch when they play against Wolves next week, who you'd expect wouldn't afford them the same chances Chelsea did on Sunday.

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I dunno, I think there we are all jumping the gun over the Chelsea match. 

Are United an amazing counter attacking side now? Maybe, they have some very quick and skillful attackers, a much more solid defence and some good quality passing from deep. This might have been Ole's plan all along with the purchase of AWB and Maguire. Does that mean they are Top 4 quality now? Probably not. If Tammy had scored that from that shot that hit the post first half I think it would have been an entirely different match.

Chelsea shows some serious defensive frailty as well, with Zouma and Cristiansen being pretty poor, but also exposed by the midfield. When Kante is back I'm assuming that will improve. 

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They might not be an amazing counter attacking team, but it is style that suits them and one that works well for them against teams that play as Chelsea did on Sunday. Man City, for instance, will likely go to Old Trafford and try to press high and play possession football, but they will do it much better than Chelsea did and Man United may struggle to counter attack well against them, because Man City's players are able to get back into a defensive shape quickly after they lose the ball. Against teams that are poorly set up to defend against counter attacks, Man United should have success, as they have all the ingredients to play that style successfully: a much stronger defence than last season (including a ball playing centre back like Maguire to start attacks), a midfielder who can charge forward in transition with the ball from deep and also play excellent long passes from deep in Pogba, and a very fast forward line, with players who are good in one on one positions vs goalkeepers (Martial and Rashford).

I would say Man United are top four quality now. We go into this season knowing that Man City and Liverpool set a very high standard last season and were well ahead of everyone else. Chelsea may have come third ahead of Tottenham last season, but Tottenham were able to strengthen their squad this summer while Chelsea lost their best player and were unable to buy replacements. Tottenham look in better shape with their squad this season than they did going into last season. When you look at the other teams competing for the top four, the spine of Man United's best starting XI is actually quite strong now - certainly stronger than Chelsea and Arsenal's. They have the best goalkeeper and maybe the best first choice back line outside of Man City and Liverpool, though it is close between them and Tottenham. Keeping hold of Pogba will be vital for them, though. 

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