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Tyrion1991

What happens if Euron sacks Oldtown?

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Posted (edited)

Outside of Astapor falling to the slavers and some of the descriptions of the sack of KL in Roberts Rebellion we’ve not really seen a city fall. In the North and Riverlands it’s all just villages and castles.

Am I right in thinking Euron is going to just devastate the city. I mean, he’s hanged all the Lords he has encountered and taken slaves. His fleet has utterly terrorised the Reach and he seems to just be an agent of chaos. But for now his victims have only been small castles. So what happens if he takes a major city like Oldtown? If he lets the Ironborn loose.

One thing I think George might be drawing inspiration from is Ancient Alexandria. Which like Oldtown was known for its lighthouse and its great library which housed much ancient knowledge. That same knowledge Sam needs to help win the ultimate war. Historically, that library was meant to have been burnt by Caesar whilst he fought Egyptian rebels. So could it be that the Ironborn sack Oldtown and this knowledge that could save Westeros is destroyed? Perhaps Sam manages to save something but most is lost to Eurons madness?

Also, House Hightower. Is Euron just going to kill all of them? He seems to have killed every Lord he’s captured this far. I was trying to vouch for all of them but there’s so many. I know Leyton, Malora and some of his sons are in Oldtown dealing with the siege. I know that Humphrey and Lynesse are in Lys (IMO they will almost certainly go to Dany or Aegon if Oldtown falls to Euron). Plus you then have the daughters wed to Tyrell’s and Redwynes. Who would be Lord Hightower if Leyton and the Sons in Oldtown die?

But yeah, I could see George making a sack of Oldtown by the Ironborn under Euron horrifically bloody.  Possibly the highest single body count in the series to date. Something Sam and Gilly must escape; maybe fleeing to Horn Hill. It would also sell just how serious Euron is about making the world burn to become a God. I can’t imagine him peacefully occupying the city after their rampage.

Edited by Tyrion1991

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Yeah if Euron sacks Oldtown, he will probably head for the citadel and take all sorts of forbidden books and potions etc. Whilst also killing half of the Maester's of Oldtown. He’ll probably leave the western coast alone, and go sack another great city. Maybe Bravos.

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Euron scares the hell out of me.  I think more than anything, he will want to get his hands on the glass candles.  Part of me thinks that Sam will escape Euron's clutches and the other part says that he won't.  Gilly and Sarella would be in jeopardy as well.  So, I'm guessing that Sarella will escort Gilly to safety.   I'm not sure how the FM-Pate will play out, he has the master key.  There is some pretty good evidence that he is Jaqen H'gar, so he may help Sam, even if he is the FM who threw Balon Greyjoy off a bridge.  Marwyn basically told Sam to hurry up and get what he needed and the get the hell out of there.      

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, The Young Maester said:

Yeah if Euron sacks Oldtown, he will probably head for the citadel and take all sorts of forbidden books and potions etc. Whilst also killing half of the Maester's of Oldtown. He’ll probably leave the western coast alone, and go sack another great city. Maybe Bravos.

 

Couldnt he sail up that big river to sack every town in the Reach once Oldtown falls? He’d be close to the Gods Eye as well....

He could go for Dorne and Sunspear. Maybe he wants Dawn?

Is this setting up that whoever ends Euron is going to be seen as a hero by the Reach? He’s done some appalling things whilst Cersei has dithered.

Edited by Tyrion1991

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14 hours ago, Tyrion1991 said:

One thing I think George might be drawing inspiration from is Ancient Alexandria. Which like Oldtown was known for its lighthouse and its great library which housed much ancient knowledge. That same knowledge Sam needs to help win the ultimate war. Historically, that library was meant to have been burnt by Caesar whilst he fought Egyptian rebels. So could it be that the Ironborn sack Oldtown and this knowledge that could save Westeros is destroyed? Perhaps Sam manages to save something but most is lost to Eurons madness?

Interesting. Perhaps that's why the George has the Faceless Man who paid Arya's debt to Red Rhaloo in the Citadel--to petserve the most critical bit of knowledge? 

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How many men Hightowers can call at arms? Or there is a chance that defenders of Oldtown would have more men than Euron. So it is possible that Euron just wants to keep most of his enemies  in there and so his raids elsewhere would have greater chances to be successful. 

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16 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

How many men Hightowers can call at arms? Or there is a chance that defenders of Oldtown would have more men than Euron. So it is possible that Euron just wants to keep most of his enemies  in there and so his raids elsewhere would have greater chances to be successful. 

 

Spoiler

From the Aeron preview chapter in Winds The Hightower’s and Redwynes plan to fight Euron at sea...there won’t be many Hightower soldiers left very soon.

 

He doesn’t really have many other places he could go if he can’t get into the Reach via that big river. Dorne is a maybe and the Arbor too small. But aside from that it would be odd having ignored the Westeroabds and Seaguard to loop back.

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2 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

The Hightower’s will put up a fight and might even win.  

 

I agree Euron is set for a fall.

But George seems to be building him up as this ultimate threat. It would be odd if that was to whimper out because House Hightower beats his fleet in a straight fight. It makes sense for him to have this big win as a capstone to that.

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2 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Euron is not a Superman.  TheHightowers have the resources to fight him.

 

But he is a God. Have you not heard his speech? What are mortals against such reckless hate?

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Mummers, like the George, set cloth dragons to dancing on poles to give their heroes something to fight. 

I think most readers expect Daenerys and Aegon to be enemies when they meet, but I suspect Tyrion, the George's favorite character, had the right of it. Daenerys will come to Aegon's aide when he is hardest pressed, and I suspect that Euron will be doing the pressing. The two dragons (black or red, a dragon is still a dragon) will wed to cement their alliance. Euron will not stand a chance with Daenerys riding the black one, Aegon riding the green one, and Brown Ben riding the white one. 

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35 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Mummers, like the George, set cloth dragons to dancing on poles to give their heroes something to fight. 

I think most readers expect Daenerys and Aegon to be enemies when they meet, but I suspect Tyrion, the George's favorite character, had the right of it. Daenerys will come to Aegon's aide when he is hardest pressed, and I suspect that Euron will be doing the pressing. The two dragons (black or red, a dragon is still a dragon) will wed to cement their alliance. Euron will not stand a chance with Daenerys riding the black one, Aegon riding the green one, and Brown Ben riding the white one. 

Black, green and white?

Hmm, we’ll see. I am still putting money on Jorah riding Rhaegal. 

TBH I can never tell if we’re overthinking George’s work. It feels obvious that Dany is going to burn Aegon so it must be a twist within a twist within a twist.

I mean, going back to the Alexandria example. It could be that the whole false dragon thing means that Aegon is killed and his head is sent to Dany as proof of loyalty. Because if they assume he’s a false pretender then people may think it’s prudent to kill him to avoid the Dragon Queens wrath. Which is a bit like Pompey being murdered by the Ptlomy and Caesar being appalled before conquering Egypt. Which would be ironic that it’s actually people being afraid of her that leads to her relatives being put to death and incurring her wrath on people who want to help her. 

However, I do think it is as people have guessed. Aegon will cut his own path and marry Arriane which cuts Dany out of the succession. She gets mad. Prophecies, Mummers dragons etc etc etc

 

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1 hour ago, Tyrion1991 said:

Black, green and white?

Hmm, we’ll see. I am still putting money on Jorah riding Rhaegal. 

TBH I can never tell if we’re overthinking George’s work. It feels obvious that Dany is going to burn Aegon so it must be a twist within a twist within a twist.

I mean, going back to the Alexandria example. It could be that the whole false dragon thing means that Aegon is killed and his head is sent to Dany as proof of loyalty. Because if they assume he’s a false pretender then people may think it’s prudent to kill him to avoid the Dragon Queens wrath. Which is a bit like Pompey being murdered by the Ptlomy and Caesar being appalled before conquering Egypt. Which would be ironic that it’s actually people being afraid of her that leads to her relatives being put to death and incurring her wrath on people who want to help her. 

However, I do think it is as people have guessed. Aegon will cut his own path and marry Arriane which cuts Dany out of the succession. She gets mad. Prophecies, Mummers dragons etc etc etc

He wouldn't be the first dragon to take more than one bride. 

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7 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

He wouldn't be the first dragon to take more than one bride. 

 

But with the faith being a power he may not be able to do that. Plus would he anger Dorne given the precedent of his father and Elia? Plus, he doesn’t seem to like Dany.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Mummers, like the George, set cloth dragons to dancing on poles to give their heroes something to fight. 

I think most readers expect Daenerys and Aegon to be enemies when they meet, but I suspect Tyrion, the George's favorite character, had the right of it. Daenerys will come to Aegon's aide when he is hardest pressed, and I suspect that Euron will be doing the pressing. The two dragons (black or red, a dragon is still a dragon) will wed to cement their alliance. Euron will not stand a chance with Daenerys riding the black one, Aegon riding the green one, and Brown Ben riding the white one. 

This depends on what happens when Victarion reaches Mereen.  Dany is off with Drogon at Vaes Dothrak and the other two dragons are loose.  Not sure what Moqorro is up to with Victarion and the dragonbinder horn.  I'm expecting one dragon to be captured and possibly one dragon to be killed to even the odds.

Edited by LynnS

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, LynnS said:

This depends on what happens when Victarion reaches Mereen.  Dany is off with Drogon at Vaes Dothrak and the other two dragons are loose.  Not sure what Moqorro is up to with Victarion and the dragonbinder horn.  I'm expecting one dragon to be captured and possibly one dragon to be killed to even the odds.

Yeah. If nobody tells Dany that Eurons a bad man there’s a risk she might ally with him. Even if it’s Vic. 

Iam personally not a fan of a dragon being killed or captured because of Eurons superpowers. It should be a character driven thing and part of her arc. She makes a mistake and loses a dragon. A consequence of her choices. 

Plus Euron is OP and the dragons are never going to be fully grown. There’s other magic which counters the dragons. So iam not seeing a balance that needs to be made. Plus George would be sacrificing creating that dynamic of Aegon and his dragon riders which I feel should be put into the story.

Edited by Tyrion1991

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tyrion1991 said:

Yeah. If nobody tells Dany that Eurons a bad man there’s a risk she might ally with him. Even if it’s Vic. 

Iam personally not a fan of a dragon being killed or captured because of Eurons superpowers. It should be a character driven thing and part of her arc. She makes a mistake and loses a dragon. A consequence of her choices. 

Plus Euron is OP and the dragons are never going to be fully grown. There’s other magic which counters the dragons. So iam not seeing a balance that needs to be made. Plus George would be sacrificing creating that dynamic of Aegon and his dragon riders which I feel should be put into the story.

I don't think it's beyond George to kill a dragon at this point.  After all, he killed one of the direwolves and he killed off Ned Stark.  Nobody is safe, not even a dragon. 

For word play fans:  Viserys + Victarion = Viserion.  The white and green dragon are on the loose, with no control whatsoever.  At the end of FFC, they were becoming less controllable, more aggressive and dangerous, despite their size.  I can see them creating no end of trouble for Mereen. Then Victarion shows up and becomes the hero of the day.  

We don't actually know what Moqorro has done to Victarion.  It's possible that his goal is to get his hands on a dragon for the R'hllorist faction.  At the very least, Moqorro may thwart Euron's ambitions.  Euron may not get a dragon at all.  

I still see Euron as a huge threat, regardless.  The Foresaken Chapter was creepy as hell.  I don't know if he is going to 'wake the dragon' or 'wake the kraken'.  That's far more interesting to me.

If he does kill off a dragon, it means going back to the drawing board on the meaning of the "dragon has three heads".

Edited by LynnS

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10 hours ago, Tyrion1991 said:

But with the faith being a power he may not be able to do that. Plus would he anger Dorne given the precedent of his father and Elia? Plus, he doesn’t seem to like Dany.

All that would make for wonderful tension, which is the lifeblood of storytelling, no? 

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