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Tywin Manderly

Appropriate Punishment for Catelyn

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2 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

Ok. Agreed. So back to the OP, what is the appropriate punishment for Cat? 

Karstak made his King a liar and so he paid with his head.
Catelyn receives.... :dunno:

Catelyn gets placed under house arrest at Seagard (but is murdered before it happens)

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13 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

Do you honestly believe that the RW would of played out the way it did if JL was rotting in a dungeon in RR? 


That would of been an even trade. The heir to Casterly Rock in exchange for the heir to the North. Alas... Tywin and co were free to do as they pleased with almost no fear of retribution. 

The capture of JL was the biggest and most significant win for the North. And Catelyn undid it all. There were a number of reasons which served to weaken Rob's cause. And shunning the Frey girl was one of them. But Catelyn giving away Tywin's only weakness left Rob with nothing but a prayer. It's like spending your last bit of money on a lotto scratch-card. 

I understand they both made a mess. I understand that there is love and respect between them. I'm not insinuating that Rob should of just lopped her head off, willy-nilly. But nothing? King's and queens often change their mind. Making new rules and breaking old ones.  It is a luxury not afforded to anyone else. It is for him to command and others to obey. And his intentions re JL were clear.  

Absolutely why not? Jaime sitting in a cell at RR wouldn't convince Tywin or Walder to cut the RW. Why would it? 

Do you think Jaime being returned would have sated Tywin's thirst for vengeance? It was coming regardless. 

There was a punishment though. Maybe you don't think it was harsh enough but that doesn't mean there wasn't one. What punishment would have been fair for Robb to exact on Catelyn? 

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I'm not sure what sort of punishment Robb could have thrown at his mother. I'm not a Catelyn fan by any stretch of the imagination, but following the news of the murders of Bran and Rickon, the woman was living in her own personal hell. Between the dead sons, no news of Arya, Sansa being a hostage, her father dying, what more could Robb have done that would not have felt like he was piling on?

He was sending her off to Seagard after Edmure's wedding and she knew full well why he was doing that. What more could he do? Behead her? Pack her off to the silent sisters? 

I think Catelyn paid a steep price for her mistakes. She saw her eldest son be murdered before her eyes. She went to her grave believing that Bran and Rickon and Arya were dead. That's a really cruel punishment for any mother. And when she was put out of her misery, she couldn't even die and rest in peace, she had to be brought back as whatever Lady Stoneheart is. 

I think she was severely punished for the things she had done in life. Knowing what we know, I think locking her in a cell and throwing away the key or even having her executed for the release of Jaime might have been the best possible outcome for her. 

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18 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Absolutely why not? Jaime sitting in a cell at RR wouldn't convince Tywin or Walder to cut the RW. Why would it? 

Cut the RW entirely? Perhaps not. But it could of bought Rob's life. Maybe Cat's too. 

 

18 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

 Do you think Jaime being returned would have sated Tywin's thirst for vengeance? It was coming regardless. 

I agree vengeance was coming regardless. But you must agree that vengeance can come in many different forms? There a ways to humble a person. In my opinion, the RW played out the way it did for the sole reason that there would be no recourse from the other side.

 

18 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

There was a punishment though. Maybe you don't think it was harsh enough but that doesn't mean there wasn't one. What punishment would have been fair for Robb to exact on Catelyn? 

 It appears to me that Cat basically went unpunished. And I can't stress enough how highly I regard JL's importance as a hostage. 

As for a fitting punishment. I have to admit that I wrestle with that on every read. The closest I've come is resigning myself (given that she's his mother) to the idea that he should of left her at RR. In my eyes, she couldn't be a Stark. She was and always would be a Tully. A fish out of water. The Starks are a hard people. They need to be that way. And what Rob did was so soft that it pains me whenever I have to read those chapters. 

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On 8/18/2019 at 1:46 PM, SeanF said:

Catelyn gets placed under house arrest at Seagard (but is murdered before it happens)

And you think her crime fits that punishment? Because I really, really don't. 

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23 minutes ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

Cut the RW entirely? Perhaps not. But it could of bought Rob's life. Maybe Cat's too

It's definitely a possibility but if I'm Tywin what is to stop me from having the Frey's carry out the RW while I lay siege to RR? 

 

25 minutes ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

agree vengeance was coming regardless. But you must agree that vengeance can come in many different forms? There a ways to humble a person. In my opinion, the RW played out the way it did for the sole reason that there would be no recourse from the other side.

Sure, I agree there are many different forms of vengeance but part of the beauty (in Tywin & Walder's eyes) of the RW is there is no one left to retaliate. If Jaime had been at RR & there was no way for Tywin to set him free before RR got wind of the RW therefore putting Jaime's life at risk then Tywin probably wouldn't have went through with it but that is alot of if's

 

28 minutes ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

As for a fitting punishment. I have to admit that I wrestle with that on every read. The closest I've come is resigning myself (given that she's his mother) to the idea that he should of left her at RR. In my eyes, she couldn't be a Stark. She was and always would be a Tully. A fish out of water. The Starks are a hard people. They need to be that way. And what Rob did was so soft that it pains me whenever I have to read those chapters. 

But he was going to make her stay away from the politics of war & his prisoners after the wedding no? I don't disagree that her punishment should have been heavier but I don't really see the difference in what you suggested & what he did. 

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2 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

 I can't stress enough how highly I regard JL's importance as a hostage.

It doesn't seem that Tywin Lannister regarded him in the same importance as you do, though.

Those are the orders that he gives immediately after he receives notice that Jaime has been captured:

“Unleash Ser Gregor and send him before us with his reavers. Send forth Vargo Hoat and his freeriders as well, and Ser Amory Lorch. Each is to have three hundred horse. Tell them I want to see the riverlands afire from the Gods Eye to the Red Fork. (...) Your savages might relish a bit of rapine. Tell them they may ride with Vargo Hoat and plunder as they like-goods, stock, women, they may take what they want and burn the rest.”

Tyrion, who knows his father well, thinks to himself that Tywin is acting as if Jaime was already dead.

While Jame was captive, Tywin'smen to go village after village burning, murdering, raping, and maiming, with a cruelty that is considered outrageous. While Jaime was captive, Castle Darry was put to the torch, its garrison executed and its boy lord killed (not even bothering to attempt to ransom him) and put all the garrison to the sword. It really doesn't seem that Tywin restrained himself in any way. It almost seems that it's the opposite: Tywin was adamant to prove that House Lannister couldn't be blackmailed.

4 hours ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

And you think her crime fits that punishment? Because I really, really don't. 

Most people in Westeros would thing that the murders of her husband and two sons, combined with the loss of her two daughters, is punishment enough. If you add to that she was being secluded in an alien castle and deprived of all her political influence... well, I really don't see what else Robb could have done. Have her publicly flogged?

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On 8/14/2019 at 9:02 AM, Tywin Manderly said:

What would have been an appropriate punishment for Catelyn for setting Jaime Lannister free without Robb's leave?

 

On 8/14/2019 at 10:34 AM, TheThreeEyedCow said:

Death. Beheading most like. But that would of made him a kinslayer - cursed in the eyes of gods and men. 

 

On 8/14/2019 at 1:34 PM, Widowmaker 811 said:

You have identified one of the important choices for a leader.  Catelyn is guilty of treason.  How Robb can kill Karstark and let mom get off lightly is proof of poor ruling.  This theme is repeated again at the wall when Jon Snow kills Slynt and later lets a worse criminal off the blocks.  The Starks are poor at handling situations when it gets personal.  Robb and Jon stink  as leaders.

Even steven.  Robb Stark can't show partiality to his mom.  

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2 hours ago, Al Czervik said:

Even steven.  Robb Stark can't show partiality to his mom.  

As discussed thoroughly up thread, the crimes are not close to even so why would the punishments be?

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2 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

As discussed thoroughly up thread, the crimes are not close to even so why would the punishments be?

Because the crimes are exactly the same: treason.

Catelyn's crime was obviously treason, and Karstark himself refers to his act as treason.

Lord Karstark spit out a broken tooth. "Yes, Lord Umber, leave me to the king. He means to give me a scolding before he forgives me. That's how he deals with treason, our King in the North." He smiled a wet red smile.

It's essentially the reason he kills the boys. Tion and Willem are nothing to him, hardly vengeance-sating kills. However, he'll either go unpunished or expose Robb's hypocrisy to all. Win-win.

The biggest issue is Robb, however. He doesn't seem to think that what Catelyn did was treason, but he does call Rickard's actions treason. Willful ignorance or he truly doesn't understand it, either way, doesn't garner much trust in a King. I'm going to say willful ignorance, however.

"It was a mother's folly. Women are made that way."

"A mother's folly?" Lord Karstark rounded on Lord Umber. "I name it treason."

"Enough." For just an instant Robb sounded more like Brandon than his father. "No man calls my lady of Winterfell a traitor in my hearing, Lord Rickard.(sounding more like Brandon is interesting. More emotional, in other words. She is a traitor, just don't call her one! Definitely willful ignorance.)

 

"Rickard Karstark, Lord of Karhold." Robb lifted the heavy axe with both hands. "Here in sight of gods and men, I judge you guilty of murder and high treason. In mine own name I condemn you. With mine own hand I take your life. Would you speak a final word?"

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12 hours ago, cyberdirectorfreedom said:

Because the crimes are exactly the same: treason.

Catelyn's crime was obviously treason, and Karstark himself refers to his act as treason.

Lord Karstark spit out a broken tooth. "Yes, Lord Umber, leave me to the king. He means to give me a scolding before he forgives me. That's how he deals with treason, our King in the North." He smiled a wet red smile.

It's essentially the reason he kills the boys. Tion and Willem are nothing to him, hardly vengeance-sating kills. However, he'll either go unpunished or expose Robb's hypocrisy to all. Win-win.

The biggest issue is Robb, however. He doesn't seem to think that what Catelyn did was treason, but he does call Rickard's actions treason. Willful ignorance or he truly doesn't understand it, either way, doesn't garner much trust in a King. I'm going to say willful ignorance, however.

"It was a mother's folly. Women are made that way."

"A mother's folly?" Lord Karstark rounded on Lord Umber. "I name it treason."

"Enough." For just an instant Robb sounded more like Brandon than his father. "No man calls my lady of Winterfell a traitor in my hearing, Lord Rickard.(sounding more like Brandon is interesting. More emotional, in other words. She is a traitor, just don't call her one! Definitely willful ignorance.)

 

"Rickard Karstark, Lord of Karhold." Robb lifted the heavy axe with both hands. "Here in sight of gods and men, I judge you guilty of murder and high treason. In mine own name I condemn you. With mine own hand I take your life. Would you speak a final word?"

They are both treason but they are very, very different. Robb was completely justified & well within his rights to punish Karstark with a beheading & Cat with banishment. In fact it seems to be only some on this forum & Karstark & Co that disagree. I get why Karstark's don't like it but it's an enigma to me that people can't understand the differences between killing children & setting a prisoner free. (a prisoner that probably would have been killed as well had he not been set free)

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15 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

They are both treason but they are very, very different. 

Treason is treason. The differences are irrelevant.

 
 
 
 
16 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Robb was completely justified & well within his rights to punish Karstark with a beheading & Cat with banishment. 

He was well within his rights to execute Karstark, yes. But he didn't actually punish Catelyn. Or, he hadn't yet, at the time of his death. It seemed to me, either way, that the "banishment" to Seagard was only ever to be a temporary matter: until Winterfell had been retaken, and she would go home. Doesn't seem much a punishment.

"Your part is to stay safe. Our journey through the Neck will be dangerous, and naught but battle awaits us in the north. But Lord Mallister has kindly offered to keep you safe at Seagard until the war is done. You will be comfortable there, I know."

I interpreted that as the war with the Greyjoys, but he might mean his war of secession. He also might mean she'd stay at Seagard until the war ends, at which point she'd go elsewhere, not home to Winterfell. But that's how I took it.

16 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

but it's an enigma to me that people can't understand the differences between killing children & setting a prisoner free.

Because the differences are irrelevant. Their crimes aren't identical, no, but crimes were committed by both, for a certainty. Catelyn is guilty of treason. Karstark is guilty of treason and murder. One act, two crimes. Murder tends to earn one death, yes, but so does treason.

I ask you again—what is the penalty for treason under the law?"

Davos had no choice but to answer. "Death," he said. "The penalty is death, Your Grace."

In their treason, their crimes are the same. The details of their treason are meaningless.

16 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

(a prisoner that probably would have been killed as well had he not been set free)

By Karstark? I doubt that. He wanted Jaime killed, sure, but he seemed to understand that he was Robb's prisoner. His King's prisoner. It was only when his vengeance was stolen from him, a crime which went unpunished (at least at the time), that he acted. After abandoning Robb as his King.

"Kill me, and be cursed. You are no king of mine."

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1 hour ago, cyberdirectorfreedom said:

Treason is treason. The differences are irrelevant.

He was well within his rights to execute Karstark, yes. But he didn't actually punish Catelyn. Or, he hadn't yet, at the time of his death. It seemed to me, either way, that the "banishment" to Seagard was only ever to be a temporary matter: until Winterfell had been retaken, and she would go home. Doesn't seem much a punishment.

"Your part is to stay safe. Our journey through the Neck will be dangerous, and naught but battle awaits us in the north. But Lord Mallister has kindly offered to keep you safe at Seagard until the war is done. You will be comfortable there, I know."

I interpreted that as the war with the Greyjoys, but he might mean his war of secession. He also might mean she'd stay at Seagard until the war ends, at which point she'd go elsewhere, not home to Winterfell. But that's how I took it.

Because the differences are irrelevant. Their crimes aren't identical, no, but crimes were committed by both, for a certainty. Catelyn is guilty of treason. Karstark is guilty of treason and murder. One act, two crimes. Murder tends to earn one death, yes, but so does treason.

I ask you again—what is the penalty for treason under the law?"

Davos had no choice but to answer. "Death," he said. "The penalty is death, Your Grace."

In their treason, their crimes are the same. The details of their treason are meaningless.

By Karstark? I doubt that. He wanted Jaime killed, sure, but he seemed to understand that he was Robb's prisoner. His King's prisoner. It was only when his vengeance was stolen from him, a crime which went unpunished (at least at the time), that he acted. After abandoning Robb as his King.

"Kill me, and be cursed. You are no king of mine."

Maybe the differences are irrelevant to you but to most they are not. Obviously they were not irrelevant to Robb & every other person there minus Karstark. 

Her punishment had started. She was confined to her father's room at RR. Just because the punishment may have not been permanent does not mean it's not a punishment. People get sentenced to some form of punishment every day & the majority of them are not permanent. 

Again, if your argument is that Cat's punishment wasn't harsh enough, I'll agree there are logical arguments for that. What I disagree with is that she deserved the same as Karstark. 

The punishment for treason is death but obviously that's up to the Kings discretion as shown with your quote. Davos didn't lose his head either. Because the why matters. Because the way they committed treason matters, to Stannis, Robb, and most every other King we have witnessed in the text. 

I don't have time to look up quotes but IIRC Catelyn was very worried that Karstark & Co were going to kill Jaime while Robb was away. I think this is a very real possibility. 

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Her punishment had started. She was confined to her father's room at RR. Just because the punishment may have not been permanent does not mean it's not a punishment. People get sentenced to some form of punishment every day & the majority of them are not permanent.

For some reason, I can't quote or copy/paste from the post made by @cyberdirectorfreedom, but this is the relevant section from that post:

Quote

… [Robb] didn’t actually punish Catelyn. Or, he hadn’t yet, at the time of his death. It seemed to me, either way, that the banishment to Seagard was only ever to be a temporary matter: until Winterfell had been retaken, and she would go home. Doesn’t seem much a punishment.

"Your part is to stay safe. Our journey through the Neck will be dangerous, and naught but battle awaits us in the north. But Lord Mallister has kindly offered to keep you safe at Seagard until the war is done. You will be comfortable there, I know.”

I think these are key observations and that both are foreshadowing the "actual" punishment that befalls Catelyn. The period in Hoster Tully's bed foreshadows the three days her body is in the river; the exile to Seagard symbolizes her death-in-life as Lady Stoneheart.

A Catelyn POV gives a detailed description of Hoster Tully's bed and bedroom. The bed is ornately carved with fish imagery, in keeping with the Tully sigil. The foreshadowing is that Catelyn sleeps with the fishes, I think; her body will be thrown in the river.

The Mallisters are a creepy presence in ASOIAF. They don't talk much, kind of like Ser Ilyn Payne, but they have strategic roles in tourneys (which provide clues about winners and losers in the game of thrones). Their sigil is indigo, which is a unique and rarely-used color in GRRM's complex rainbow color scheme symbolism. (There is also a complicated bit of symbolism with blue lake, silver wings - also part of the Mallister symbolism, and House Crane / purple. For more, see this post, under the headings, "Where is the Indigo Guard" and "Is Indigo Different?")

Lately, I have been thinking that the Mallisters may be guardians of the after life or maybe the embodiment of the Grim Reaper. (Remember, also, that Denys Mallister is the commander of the Shadow Tower for the Night's Watch. This is a mysterious place on the edge of an abyss and near the Bridge of Skulls.) It's interesting that Lord Jason Mallister does not recognize Catelyn when he passes her on the road to the Hand's Tourney, but he is now ready and willing to receive her. Maybe a hint that she had escaped the notice of the grim reaper in that earlier scene, but that her demise is now nigh.

As I mentioned before, I think Catelyn is closely linked to the statue of Alyssa Arryn, the matriarch who is fated to mourn her murdered family until the tears she weeps at the Eyrie reach the ground. The waterfall at the Eyrie called Alyssa's Tears always turns to snow or mist before the "tears" reach the valley below. The Lady Stoneheart persona is a match for the statue. I think this "death in the midst of life" is part of the punishment Catelyn suffers for her treason against Robb (and for the betrayal of Lord Walder). The notion of a temporary stay at Seagard may symbolize this "death in life" state of existence. At least we can count on it being temporary, and that Catelyn's tortured existence may end when "the war is done."

Btw: I also think Robb Stark has a "rebirth" as a dead guy in ASOIAF. Take a look at the wildling Borroq, with the skinchanged boar. He decides to live in the lichyard at Castle Black, after crossing through the tunnel. I think the lichyard is symbolic of Stark limbo - Starks who haven't made it into the Winterfell crypt continue a tortured "undead" existence until their remains are finally laid to rest in the Stark crypt.

 

Edited by Seams

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Maybe the differences are irrelevant to you but to most they are not. Obviously they were not irrelevant to Robb & every other person there minus Karstark. 

Her punishment had started. She was confined to her father's room at RR. Just because the punishment may have not been permanent does not mean it's not a punishment. People get sentenced to some form of punishment every day & the majority of them are not permanent. 

Again, if your argument is that Cat's punishment wasn't harsh enough, I'll agree there are logical arguments for that. What I disagree with is that she deserved the same as Karstark. 

The punishment for treason is death but obviously that's up to the Kings discretion as shown with your quote. Davos didn't lose his head either. Because the why matters. Because the way they committed treason matters, to Stannis, Robb, and most every other King we have witnessed in the text. 

I don't have time to look up quotes but IIRC Catelyn was very worried that Karstark & Co were going to kill Jaime while Robb was away. I think this is a very real possibility. 

Her confinement in her fathers room wasn't the kings work and in fact Robb dismissed her crime casually on his arrival to Riverrun. Lord Karstark was away in the Westerlands  with robb, prey tell how could he have killed Jaime? Do any of you consider sending your mom to a walled town for safety punishment? should robb have taken his grieving mom to battle with him where she would be near useless?

Edited by flayedmanssecret

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5 hours ago, Seams said:

For some reason, I can't quote or copy/paste from the post made by @cyberdirectorfreedom, but this is the relevant section from that post:

I think these are key observations and that both are foreshadowing the "actual" punishment that befalls Catelyn. The period in Hoster Tully's bed foreshadows the three days her body is in the river; the exile to Seagard symbolizes her death-in-life as Lady Stoneheart.

A Catelyn POV gives a detailed description of Hoster Tully's bed and bedroom. The bed is ornately carved with fish imagery, in keeping with the Tully sigil. The foreshadowing is that Catelyn sleeps with the fishes, I think; her body will be thrown in the river.

The Mallisters are a creepy presence in ASOIAF. They don't talk much, kind of like Ser Ilyn Payne, but they have strategic roles in tourneys (which provide clues about winners and losers in the game of thrones). Their sigil is indigo, which is a unique and rarely-used color in GRRM's complex rainbow color scheme symbolism. (There is also a complicated bit of symbolism with blue lake, silver wings - also part of the Mallister symbolism, and House Crane / purple. For more, see this post, under the "Is Indigo Different?" heading.)

Lately, I have been thinking that the Mallisters may be guardians of the after life or maybe the embodiment of the Grim Reaper. (Remember, also, that Denys Mallister is the commander of the Shadow Tower for the Night's Watch. This is a mysterious place on the edge of an abyss and near the Bridge of Skulls.) It's interesting that Lord Jason Mallister does not recognize Catelyn when he passes her on the road to the Hand's Tourney, but he is now ready and willing to receive her. Maybe a hint that she had escaped the notice of the grim reaper in that earlier scene, but that her demise is now nigh.

As I mentioned before, I think Catelyn is closely linked to the statue of Alyssa Arryn, the matriarch who is fated to mourn her murdered family until the tears she weeps at the Eyrie reach the ground. The waterfall at the Eyrie called Alyssa's Tears always turns to snow or mist before the "tears" reach the valley below. The Lady Stoneheart persona is a match for the statue. I think this "death in the midst of life" is part of the punishment Catelyn suffers for her treason against Robb (and for the betrayal of Lord Walder). The notion of a temporary stay at Seagard may symbolize this "death in life" state of existence. At least we can count on it being temporary, and that Catelyn's tortured existence may end when "the war is done."

Btw: I also think Robb Stark has a "rebirth" as a dead guy in ASOIAF. Take a look at the wildling Borroq, with the skinchanged boar. He decides to live in the lichyard at Castle Black, after crossing through the tunnel. I think the lichyard is symbolic of Stark limbo - Starks who haven't made it into the Winterfell crypt continue a tortured "undead" existence until their remains are finally laid to rest in the Stark crypt.

 

Amazing parallels as always Seams. 

I love the Alyssa Arryn parallel. Cat is suffering a worse punishment than most can even imagine. 

P.s. I couldn't quote that post right either. 

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4 hours ago, flayedmanssecret said:

Her confinement in her fathers room wasn't the kings work and in fact Robb dismissed her crime casually on his arrival to Riverrun. Lord Karstark was away in the Westerlands  with robb, prey tell how could he have killed Jaime? Do any of you consider sending your mom to a walled town for safety punishment? should robb have taken his grieving mom to battle with him where she would be near useless?

Her confinement was still the start of her punishment whether it came from the King or no. 

I apologize for the confusion but I did say I wasn't positive. Possibly it was Karstark's men I was thinking of? Or maybe I'm just not remembering correctly. 

Yes, banishing his mother to a strange castle is absolutely a punishment. He hadn't done this earlier so it was clearly not only for her safety. 

W

You tell me what he should have done? Lobbed his mother's head off? I suppose it would have been an easier fate than what she ultimately faces. 

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On 8/14/2019 at 10:34 AM, TheThreeEyedCow said:

Death. Beheading most like. But that would of made him a kinslayer - cursed in the eyes of gods and men. 

 

On 8/14/2019 at 10:37 AM, SeanF said:

It would also have caused his lords to believe that their king was a lunatic.

The smart among them would respect him for his strength if he had treated both of them in the same manner.

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22 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Maybe the differences are irrelevant to you but to most they are not. Obviously they were not irrelevant to Robb

I think that's precisely the issue. Robb is supposed to be impartial when acting the judge. Otherwise, justice is impossible.

22 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

People get sentenced to some form of punishment every day & the majority of them are not permanent. 

The majority of them also haven't committed treason. Death or life imprisonment (a permanent punishment, obviously) are the most common punishments for treason, today.

22 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Again, if your argument is that Cat's punishment wasn't harsh enough, I'll agree there are logical arguments for that.

That is essentially my issue. Although I suppose it's that she wasn't punished at all, at least by Robb, the person to whom doling out justice fell.

22 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

What I disagree with is that she deserved the same as Karstark. 

Catelyn's crime was far, far more devastating to Robb's war effort (and by extension, his entire kingdom) than Karstark's crime. To my eye, the only thing that should've stayed Robb's hand is that she's kin, and as such, protected from such reprisal.

22 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

The punishment for treason is death but obviously that's up to the Kings discretion as shown with your quote. Davos didn't lose his head either.

More nepotism. By Stannis's own code, Davos should have been killed. Rewarded for your actions, punished for your crimes. It's not the only time Stannis has let justice fall by the wayside when it suited him. But, we're not here to talk about Stannis, so I'll leave that there.

10 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

You tell me what he should have done? Lobbed his mother's head off? I suppose it would have been an easier fate than what she ultimately faces

Obviously, he couldn't do that. I just now realised I haven't even given a response to the OP's question (oops), but I think he should have given her over to the silent sisters. Were she a man, she could take the black, but it seems equivalent enough. Lose your family name (or close enough to make no difference), swear vows to serve only a particular order, removed from the greater world, etc.

She worships the seven, too, so it works. It'd be a better fate than the silent sister she ended up becoming:

"Lady Stoneheart."

"Some call her that. Some call her other things. The Silent Sister. Mother Merciless. The Hangwoman."

 

Her eyes glimmered under her hood.

Grey was the color of the silent sisters, the handmaidens of the Stranger. Brienne felt a shiver climb her spine. Stoneheart.

Almost fate.

8 hours ago, Sire de Maletroit said:

The smart among them would respect him for his strength if he had treated both of them in the same manner.

Hardly. Kinslayers get the worst treatment of all. He'd have a worse reputation than Walder Frey has now, only from his own people, too. They'd abandon him in droves. Accursed in the eyes of gods and men.

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