Heresy 226 of wolves, dragons and other familiars

[LynnS]

15 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

It's an unnecessary extra layer without a purpose.

Except that GRRM delivered it right from the beginning in GoT.  I have no idea about the Blackfyre connection.  Possibly.  I expect we'll learn more about Varys and his various disguises, next book.

[alienarea]

48 minutes ago, Brad Stark said:

Except the Faceless man left with Arya, and someone continued to be Varys.   And he'd still need to sneak into the black cells to kill Varys, much easier not to.

I meant the original Varys to be killed by a Faceless Man before coming to Essos. But I guess it would not work, how long is Jaqen with Arya until he leaves?

[alienarea]

2 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Except that GRRM delivered it right from the beginning in GoT.  I have no idea about the Blackfyre connection.  Possibly.  I expect we'll learn more about Varys and his various disguises, next book.

And his end in the show felt rushed, a Blackfyre subplot having been cut (along with fAegon) would help to explain.

[Melifeather]

4 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Except that GRRM delivered it right from the beginning in GoT.  I have no idea about the Blackfyre connection.  Possibly.  I expect we'll learn more about Varys and his various disguises, next book.

But that would require believing Ned was mistaken in thinking the stubble was fake. If Ned saw fake stubble, then I tend to believe him. I also keep in mind all the Arya/Cat/Mercy descriptions behind the scenes working with the mummers. The costumes... the drastic appearance changes... the faces in the House of Black and White...

[LynnS]

5 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

But that would require believing Ned was mistaken in thinking the stubble was fake. If Ned saw fake stubble, then I tend to believe him. I also keep in mind all the Arya/Cat/Mercy descriptions behind the scenes working with the mummers. The costumes... the drastic appearance changes... the faces in the House of Black and White... 

That's the problem, Ned thinks it's fake because a eunuch couldn't possibly have facial hair.  It never occurs to him that Varys isn't at least missing the family jewels because he buys the story.  As do we all, almost.  LOL

[alienarea]

A bit off topic from the Varys-Rugen discussion, but I fail to understand why Robert hasn't had Varys killed. That's what usually happens in a rebellion.

[LynnS]

12 minutes ago, alienarea said:

And his end in the show felt rushed, a Blackfyre subplot having been cut (along with fAegon) would help to explain.

We might be able to suss it out next book.  I don't think Varys will be presenting as the Eunuch.  We'll have to watch out for pox-scarred begging bothers and pox-scarred sell swords.  LOL

[Melifeather]

19 minutes ago, alienarea said:

A bit off topic from the Varys-Rugen discussion, but I fail to understand why Robert hasn't had Varys killed. That's what usually happens in a rebellion.

Robert typically made friends of his enemies. The only people he wanted dead were Targaryens. Everybody else was offered new positions as long as they bent the knee to him.

[Black Crow]

2 hours ago, alienarea said:

A bit off topic from the Varys-Rugen discussion, but I fail to understand why Robert hasn't had Varys killed. That's what usually happens in a rebellion.

Aux contraire, there are casualties of course, but the secret police always survive to serve the new regime

[Black Crow]

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

That's the problem, Ned thinks it's fake because a eunuch couldn't possibly have facial hair.  It never occurs to him that Varys isn't at least missing the family jewels because he buys the story.  As do we all, almost.  LOL

And as for the jewels, his voice of course does mysteriously deepen when he's talking to the soon to be former Ser Kevan

[Melifeather]

I guess it depends upon when he lost those jewels. Did it happen before or after puberty? I believe I’ve read before that castrated boys end up with very elongated limbs without hormones to tell the body when to stop growing.

[LynnS]

15 minutes ago, Black Crow said:

And as for the jewels, his voice of course does mysteriously deepen when he's talking to the soon to be former Ser Kevan

Oh yes. I knew there was something else...

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Epilogue

"I thought the crossbow fitting. You shared so much with Lord Tywin, why not that? Your niece will think the Tyrells had you murdered, mayhaps with the connivance of the Imp. The Tyrells will suspect her. Someone somewhere will find a way to blame the Dornishmen. Doubt, division, and mistrust will eat the very ground beneath your boy king, whilst Aegon raises his banner above Storm's End and the lords of the realm gather round him."

"Aegon?" For a moment he did not understand. Then he remembered. A babe swaddled in a crimson cloak, the cloth stained with his blood and brains. "Dead. He's dead."

"No." The eunuch's voice seemed deeper. "He is here. Aegon has been shaped for rule since before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows that kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them."

 

[LynnS]

16 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

I guess it depends upon when he lost those jewels. Did it happen before or after puberty? I believe I’ve read before that castrated boys end up with very elongated limbs without hormones to tell the body when to stop growing.

This is what Varys tells Tyrion:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Tyrion X

"Nor do I, but . . ." This pause was longer than the one before, and when Varys spoke again his voice was different somehow. "I was an orphan boy apprenticed to a traveling folly. Our master owned a fat little cog and we sailed up and down the narrow sea performing in all the Free Cities and from time to time in Oldtown and King's Landing.

"One day at Myr, a certain man came to our folly. After the performance, he made an offer for me that my master found too tempting to refuse. I was in terror. I feared the man meant to use me as I had heard men used small boys, but in truth the only part of me he had need of was my manhood. He gave me a potion that made me powerless to move or speak, yet did nothing to dull my senses. With a long hooked blade, he sliced me root and stem, chanting all the while. I watched him burn my manly parts on a brazier. The flames turned blue, and I heard a voice answer his call, though I did not understand the words they spoke.

"The mummers had sailed by the time he was done with me. Once I had served his purpose, the man had no further interest in me, so he put me out. When I asked him what I should do now, he answered that he supposed I should die. To spite him, I resolved to live. I begged, I stole, and I sold what parts of my body still remained to me. Soon I was as good a thief as any in Myr, and when I was older I learned that often the contents of a man's letters are more valuable than the contents of his purse.

 So his age isn't specific, only that he was an orphan boy and he was afraid that he would be used in the way that men use small boys.

However, a certain man only took his manhood (a slang term for penis).  I interpret that to mean his penis only although Varys says his manly parts were burned. 

Quote

Root and Stem:

root and branch. Utterly, completely, as in The company has been transformed root and branch by the new management. Alluding to both the underground and aboveground parts of a tree, this idiom was first recorded in 1640.

If something has been completely changed or destroyed, you can say that it has been changed or destroyed root and branch.

A hooked blade to take everything externally and internally connected with the penis anatomically.  So his manly parts.

By strict definition, he is not a eunuch; which would explain why he can grow facial hair and affect a deeper voice.  However, he has been fundamentally changed so he might as well be a eunuch.

The story sounds like it is true.  Also that Varys knows the identity of a certain man.

This sounds like a reproductive organ is needed to use a glass candle and speak to another using one.  I've maintained that glass candles are used in conjunction with a burnt offering and fire is the medium that the candle enhances. 

The fire turning blue makes a connection to Qaarth and the House of Undying.  

[alienarea]

The phrase "a certain man" also sounds like FM talk.

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, alienarea said:

The phrase "a certain man" also sounds like FM talk.

I'm inclined to think that a certain man already has a presence in the story and we may have seen this character ourselves.  I think I read somewhere that Qaarth would have a bigger presence in the next book.  There are two characters that might be from Qaarth - Quaithe and Qyburn.  Quaithe may be a shadowbinder from Asshai but it doesn't mean she is a native of Asshai.  Qyburn is someone who experiments on the living and probably has some drug that immobilizes his victims without rendering them unconscious.  Which is essentially what happened to Varys.  If Qaarth is involved in upcoming plots; it makes sense that their agent would be placed close to the iron throne. 

[Melifeather]

3 hours ago, LynnS said:

hooked blade to take everything externally and internally connected with the penis anatomically.  So his manly parts.

Gives new meaning to “and he gave her his seed”. 

[LynnS]

9 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

Gives new meaning to “and he gave her his seed”. 

It's awful and horrific to contemplate. 

[LynnS]

If there is a Qaartheen connection; there is still a lot about Dany undying visions that we don't understand yet.  

"Drink from a cup of ice, drink from a cup of fire."

I've been giving this a bit of thought and it occurs to me that a horn is not just a horn but a drinking cup.  So this may be a reference to the Horn of Joramun and the hellhorn Dragonbinder.

I remember Jon telling Sam that if he couldn't repair the horn, he should use it as a drinking cup.  Moqorro tells Victarion that he must claim the hellhorn.  I wonder if this means that Victarion must actually drink from the horn rather than blow into it.  No doubt some kind of blood magic would be involved.

[Frey family reunion]

 

20 hours ago, alienarea said:

A bit off topic from the Varys-Rugen discussion, but I fail to understand why Robert hasn't had Varys killed. That's what usually happens in a rebellion.

That’s always seemed a bit off to me too.  You would think that Varys’ head would have been the first on the chopping block.  Pycelle, I can understand, since he got the gates open for the Lannisters and the fact that he was a member of the Citadel probably saved him.  It’s never really explained why Varys is saved.  

17 hours ago, Black Crow said:

Aux contraire, there are casualties of course, but the secret police always survive to serve the new regime

I suppose that’s the best explanation I’ve heard.

[Brad Stark]

We don't know Varys was loyal to Aerys, if he is a Blackfyre or otherwise backing a non Targaryen for the throne, he'd have motive to remove Aerys, as well as the means to contribute to the rebellion.   He may have worked with Robert or Robert may have learned something he did after.

What I find surprising is how Aerys and Robert both trusted Varys.   He doesn't seem like someone I would trust.