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Euron III Greyjoy

"Cursed" Targaryen Names

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Over the course of their 283 years of ruling, House Targaryen has had its fair share of "bad eggs", so to speak. These include Maegor the Cruel, Aerion Brightflame, Mad King Aerys, Daemon Blackfyre, etc. 

Do you think these names are considered "cursed" forever, or do you think after a while it would be considered acceptable to use these names again? 

Had House Targaryen kept ruling indefinitely, surely eventually every single Targaryen name would be considered cursed, right? Eventually there would be a bad Jaehaerys, Daeron, Alysanne, Aemon, etc. 

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I would guess that it is a reference to the given name of Arthur to British/English princes. It is also deemed "cursed" or "bad luck."

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29 minutes ago, Ser Leftwich said:

I would guess that it is a reference to the given name of Arthur to British/English princes. It is also deemed "cursed" or "bad luck."

I thought John was the cursed British monarch name.

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24 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

I thought John was the cursed British monarch name.

And John as well.

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I guess Maegor is considered a "bad" name in Westeros.  I might be missing some of the details, but wasn't Aerion naming his son "Maegor " one of the arguments against both Aerion and his son?

I would also consider Aemon an "unlucky " name.  Jaehyris' son Aemon got taken out by a random arrow and Maekar's son Aemon ended up, in Marwyn's words, "wasting himself at the wall."

Those are the two from off the top or my head.

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14 hours ago, Euron III Greyjoy said:

Over the course of their 283 years of ruling, House Targaryen has had its fair share of "bad eggs", so to speak. These include Maegor the Cruel, Aerion Brightflame, Mad King Aerys, Daemon Blackfyre, etc. 

Do you think these names are considered "cursed" forever, or do you think after a while it would be considered acceptable to use these names again? 

Had House Targaryen kept ruling indefinitely, surely eventually every single Targaryen name would be considered cursed, right? Eventually there would be a bad Jaehaerys, Daeron, Alysanne, Aemon, etc. 

Ridiculous.  Names are just names.  The Targaryens were good for the realm because it took an outsider who was seen as different and superior to rule over the arrogant high lords.  Their track record is much superior to the house that followed.  House Baratheon only had one guy on the throne and he was a fuck up.  The Baratheons have a 100% rate of failure.  The Lannisters had Joffrey and Tommen, 100% rate of failure.  All in all, the Targs did very well and the people were all the better under their rule.  

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Aegon. Most of the Aegon kings are cursed with their children; Aegon I, children warring for the crown. Aegon IV, the same. Aegon V, disobedient children. 

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Anyone with the prefix Vis- tends to be overshadowed. 

1. Visenya was the less loved of Aegon the Conqueror’s wives, a resentment she passed to her son Maegor. 

2. Viserys son of Aenys was tortured to death by Tyanna of the Tower while still a young teenager.

3. Viserra daughter of Jaehaerys I contributed nothing and died in a drunken carriage race.

4. Viserys I’s success as a king was a continuation of his grandfather Jaehaerys I. He also (accidentally) caused the Dance of the Dragons.

5. Visenya daughter of Rhaenyra was stillborn.

6. Viserys II served as Hand of the King to his brother and two nephews and had the ability to be a great King, but died after only a year on the throne.

7. Viserys son of Aerys was sandwiched between Rhaegar “The Last Dragon” and Daenerys the Mother of Dragons. Died in an undignified way when he was “crowned” with molten gold

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Aemon tends to be the dutiful son, though none have been the King.

  1. Aemon son of Jaehaerys was a great knight and close to his brother Baelon,
  2. Aemon son of Viserys served as a Kingsguard and died defending his brother despite the many abuses Aegon IV threw his way, while his devotion to his sister Naerys is the subject of song
  3. Aemon son of Maekar (you know him as Maester Aemon) served the Crown and the Night’s Watch and loved his brother Aegon V so much that he took the Black so he could not be used to challenge Aegon

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Posted (edited)

I've taken it to be a reflection of how there are certain names within the British royalty which are not used anymore. To be quite honest I am continually surprised that Lizzy called her son Charles, cos yeah naming your son after the only King to ever get his head chopped off is kinda odd. There have been no Richards since Richard III either, nor John's since he of Magna Carta fame was so reviled. The last Arthur was Henry VIII's brother iirc. Who tragically died young. 

I doubt for instance that anyone would choose Aerys ever again, and Maegor only pops up again with Aerion; himself a controversial figure, and he did that as a provocation.  I always found the lack of Visenya's surprising. But less so after F&B. Rhaenyra was I think making a statement with her choice of name. Coming as it did on hot on the tail of news that her brother had usurped her.  

Dany will have to be careful if she ever has a child as the name she chooses will hold a great deal of meaning, I'd suggest Jaehaerys as a good bet. And I would advise her to steer clear of Aegon too conqueror like for a monarch who is hoping to slot right back in after a decade and a half in exile. Go with the conciliators name, the one who brought peace after conflict I say. 

 

 

Edited by The Weirwoods Eyes

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

I've taken it to be a reflection of how there are certain names within the British royalty which are not used anymore. To be quite honest I am continually surprised that Lizzy called her son Charles, cos yeah naming your son after the only King to ever get his head chopped off is kinda odd. There have been no Richards since Richard III either, nor John's since he of Magna Carta fame was so reviled. The last Arthur was Henry VIII's brother iirc. Who tragically died young. 

I doubt for instance that anyone would choose Aerys ever again, and Maegor only pops up again with Aerion; himself a controversial figure, and he did that as a provocation.  I always found the lack of Visenya's surprising. But less so after F&B. Rhaenyra was I think making a statement with her choice of name. Coming as it did on hot on the tail of news that her brother had usurped her.  

Dany will have to be careful if she ever has a child as the name she chooses will hold a great deal of meaning, I'd suggest Jaehaerys as a good bet. And I would advise her to steer clear of Aegon to conqueror like for a monarch who is hoping to slot right back in after a decade and a half in exile. Go with the conciliators name, the one who brought peace after conflict I say. 

 

 

There have been a few Johns in the English-British royal family: Edward I had a son named John who died as an infant, Edward III sired John of Gaunt whose son was Henry Bolingbroke (later Henry IV after taking the crown from his cousin Richard II), and George V had a son named John, who had epilepsy and died in 1918.

Jaehaerys and Daeron seem to be good bets for names.

Baelor wouldn’t be too bad. King Baelor the Blessed was popular despite being a mite touched, and Baelor Breakspear was revered as one of the finest warriors and statesmen Westeros had; many believe he would have been a great king had he lived to succeed his father.

Edited by Angel Eyes

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

There have been a few Johns in the English-British royal family: Edward I had a son named John who died as an infant, Edward III sired John of Gaunt whose son was Henry Bolingbroke (later Henry IV after taking the crown from his cousin Richard II), and George V had a son named John, who had epilepsy and died in 1918.

Ah, I'd forgotten about and or didn't know all of those! My GCSE History teacher will be turning in her grave. tutt tutt 

 

38 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Jaehaerys and Daeron seem to be good bets for names.

Baelor wouldn’t be too bad. King Baelor the Blessed was popular despite being a mite touched, and Baelor Breakspear was revered as one of the finest warriors and statesmen Westeros had; many believe he would have been a great king had he lived to succeed his father.

 

Yes the Conciliator and the Good. 

Baelor would indeed be a good choice. Personally I am very fond of Baelor the Blessed ever since the world book revealed what he did for the Dragonknight.  Brave or Barmy that took balls. 

 

Edited by The Weirwoods Eyes

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I think there were certainly some Targaryens who ruled well, and so their names couldn't be considered cursed, namely Jaehaerys 1 (though Jaehaerys II wasn't nearly as good a ruler) Aegon the Conqueror shared his name with some good and bad Targaryen kings (and potentially the current Young Griff, if you believe he's truly Rhaegar's son), and Aemon seems to have been the name of quite a few accomplished Targs. Even bad Targaryens like Aerion Brightflame don't have curses with their names. You have to judge each person on their own individual merits and traits, rather than on the legacy of those who shared their names. For instance, Aerion was also the name of Aegon the Conqueror's dad who ruled as Lord of Dragonstone, and though we don't know much about him or the other Lords of Dragonstone before Aegon (I hope we learn more in the future), I don't think he was nearly so bad as the later Aerion Brightflame.

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6 hours ago, The Ghost Beyond the Wall said:

You have to judge each person on their own individual merits and traits, rather than on the legacy of those who shared their names.

I fully understand that is how it should work, but it doesn't. 

This isn't modern day. This is medieval times, were people where superstitious as fuck. 

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7 hours ago, The Ghost Beyond the Wall said:

I think there were certainly some Targaryens who ruled well, and so their names couldn't be considered cursed, namely Jaehaerys 1 (though Jaehaerys II wasn't nearly as good a ruler) Aegon the Conqueror shared his name with some good and bad Targaryen kings (and potentially the current Young Griff, if you believe he's truly Rhaegar's son), and Aemon seems to have been the name of quite a few accomplished Targs. Even bad Targaryens like Aerion Brightflame don't have curses with their names. You have to judge each person on their own individual merits and traits, rather than on the legacy of those who shared their names. For instance, Aerion was also the name of Aegon the Conqueror's dad who ruled as Lord of Dragonstone, and though we don't know much about him or the other Lords of Dragonstone before Aegon (I hope we learn more in the future), I don't think he was nearly so bad as the later Aerion Brightflame.

Also, none of these people actually existed, so GRRM could write whatever for whomever he wanted. If he wanted to make a "cursed" or "unlucky" name he could do so.

 

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23 minutes ago, Ser Leftwich said:

 

 

Also, none of these people actually existed, so GRRM could write whatever for whomever he wanted. If he wanted to make a "cursed" or "unlucky" name he could do so.

 

Yeah I don't disagree, GRRM wrote the story and made the rules. All I am saying is that just because a certain Targ like Aerion Brightflame was a horrible person doesn't make the name Aerion cursed forever after automatically, you know? My bad if I articulated that poorly

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34 minutes ago, Ser Leftwich said:

 

 

Also, none of these people actually existed, so GRRM could write whatever for whomever he wanted. If he wanted to make a "cursed" or "unlucky" name he could do so.

 

True. I always wondered why Cersei named her firstborn for a prince accused of being a bastard.

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7 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Wait...are you expecting there to be more Targaryens to name?

Well, I said "Had House Targaryen kept ruling indefinitely" . . . . so no, I wasn't implying there would be more Targaryens. 

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On 8/21/2019 at 9:54 PM, Ser Leftwich said:

I would guess that it is a reference to the given name of Arthur to British/English princes. It is also deemed "cursed" or "bad luck."

I didn't know this, interesting.

Makes sense too when you think about it

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