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Rose of Red Lake

Dany and child murder

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2 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Prosperity allows for the majority of the people, high or low, the chances of economic security.  There were long periods of peace and stability during his reign.  

Yes it does. I'm not arguing that. 


2 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

attempt on Bran's life was the trigger that lit the fuse.  That is true.  However, it was the Starks and the Lannisters who opened the door for Balon to think he had a chance.  It was a Stark who provoked Cersei into action that got Robert killed

Everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions. It is Jaime's fault & Jaime's fault alone (well & Cersei's to some degree) that he pushed Bran from the window. Balon is the only one to hold responsibility for starting his rebellion regardless of what someone else led him to believe. The Starks don't hold the blame for Balon's rebellion OR for Robert's death. It doesn't matter how provoked Cersei was, she is still the one who ordered him killed. 

2 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

In so far as justification, one has to weigh the consequences.  The consequences were so great that Catelyn should have left Tyrion alone even if it meant not getting any justice for Bran.  Thousands of innocent children suffered because of that decision.  

I disagree wholeheartedly. Catelyn is not to blame for the killing of Innocents unless she, herself, killed or ordered to be killed said Innocents. 

Catelyn should have left Tyrion alone for a number of reasons but most importantly because he didn't do it. That still doesn't make her responsible for another's actions. By your logic it is actually Petyr's fault that Catelyn took Tyrion because he is the one that manipulated her into believing it was Tyrion that hired the assassin. So, in turn it would be Petyr's fault that all the innocents died right? Doesn't sound so appealing when you don't get to blame it on a Stark though huh? 

2 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

you, but not for the people living under the feudal system and not for many in this forum.  There happen to be many people here who would support what Aerys did to Brandon and Rickard Stark.  Robb had no way of knowing who Joff's true parents were and he had no basis to rebel against his king

Well, yeah. That's what I said. To me it's justified. I have seen very few people try to justify what Aerys did to Brandon & Rickard but I'm asking you, how you believe it was justified. If you're saying because Aerys is the King & everything he does or says is law then fine - under those premises, yes, it was legally justified. I'm interested in hearing how you believe it to be morally or ethically justified if you believe it was. 

Robb didn't rebel over Joff's parentage. 

2 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

damage during the leaderships of Cersei, Jon Snow, and Joffrey are indeed mostly their own fault.  Just as that is true, it is also true that the problems in Slaver's Bay are the fault of the former slavers who are actively attempting to bring back slavery.  If those former slavers would just cooperate and give up on slavery, yes, the situation would be so much better

 All of the situations would be much better if the people disagreeing with them would just cooperate no? 

By those standards, ANYONE ruling ANYONE would be a great ruler with a peaceful reign. If only the people being ruled would cooperate & do as they are told. 

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On 8/21/2019 at 1:38 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

Quote 1: “Slay the Good Masters, slay the soldiers, slay every man who wears a tokar or holds a whip, but harm no child under twelve, and strike the chains off every slave you see.” - Daenerys, ASOS

Quote 2: “In death he looked even younger than he had with blade in hand. “A boy,” said Dany. “He was only a boy.”
“Six-and-ten,” Hizdahr insisted. “A man grown, who freely chose to risk his life for gold and glory. No children die today in Daznak’s, as my gentle queen in her wisdom has decreed.” - Daenerys, ADWD

Quote 3: "A boy came, younger than Dany, slight and scarred, dressed up in a frayed grey tokar trailing silver fringe. His voice broke when he told of how two of his father's household slaves had risen up the night the gate broke. One had slain his father, the other his elder brother. Both had raped his mother before killing her as well. The boy had escaped with no more than the scar upon his face, but one of the murderers was still living in his father's house, and the other had joined the queen's soldiers as one of the Mother's Men. He wanted them both hanged. I am queen over a city built on dust and death. Dany had no choice but to deny him. She had declared a blanket pardon for all crimes committed during the sack. Nor would she punish slaves for rising up against their masters."- Daenerys, ADWD

Several questions here - 

First, is everyone who wears a tokar a slave master? Or, is the tokar the garment worn by free people, some of which are slave owners, some are not?

Second, at what age is a person in Slavers Bay responsible for slavery?

Third, would a person wearing a tokar, who is 12 years old, have been killed in the sack? If so, did Dany sanction child murder? (quotes 1, 2, 3)

Fourth, if she thinks 16 is a child, where did she come up with the number 12 before this? (referring to quote 1 and 2)

Finally, would you consider Mirri Maz Duur a slave who rose up against her master? (referring to Quote 3)

The Astapori slavers were judged for their crimes against the people they enslaved.  The punishment was death to all the masters over the age of twelve.  Slaver's Bay doesn't hold much value for life.  The slavers used lives (animal and human) like we use paper napkins today.  Even new born infants of the slave class were used and killed to benefit their masters.  Their cruelty knew no one.  In truth, the sentence was light.  So that was not murder.  I label it justice delivered by a just authority. 

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