US Politics: The American Messias, Greenland and attacks on Jews voting Democrats. Or as we call it Wednesday.

[Fragile Bird]

Looks like Dorian may hit as a 4. 

Please God, hit Mar-a-lago and just sit on top of it.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Just now, Fragile Bird said:

Looks like Dorian may hit as a 4. 

Please God, hit Mar-a-lago and just sit on top of it.

And where's the next G7 summit supposed to take place then? Camp David? Be real here. Besides, you know whose administration is charge of distributing the relief funds? And that's on top of the insurance fraud pay out.

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I care more about what she did to Franken than the Clintons. Face it, she’ll throw anyone under the bus to get ahead and she’ll change any view to gain .0000001% more popularity. She represents what everyday people hate about politics.

Meh most of the caucus turned on Franken as the number of complainants piled up.  This seems revisionist and/or unwarrantingly singling her out for, ya know, being a politician. 

[Zorral]

13 hours ago, Paladin of Ice said:

...conspiracy theory that everything that happened with Franken was a conspiracy encouraged among Democrats to protect the centrists from Franken has always struck me as a singularly underwhelming conspiracy theory.

Nobody is talking conspiracy at all -- except you.  As even written about today -- nothing as a conspiracy, but a reaction of KG's, however, perhaps, well meaning and sincere, but, it did create the result of taking Franken off the political board.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-running-to-win-women-didnt-work-for-gillibrand/

Quote

 Like the other women running for president, she faced voters’ biases against women candidates. She also had the baggage of sparking Democratic Party heavyweights’ ire after she called on former Minnesota Sen. Al Franken to resign when sexual harassment allegations against him came out in 2017.

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

30 minutes ago, DMC said:

Meh most of the caucus turned on Franken as the number of complainants piled up.  This seems revisionist and/or unwarrantingly singling her out for, ya know, being a politician. 

Things are understandably different when you have a relationship with the person in hand, even if it’s relatively minor, and Gillibrand was among the first of his peers to jump off the top rope and stab him in the back, and she clearly did it because she had presidential aspirations. If she had been the nominee, I would have written Al’s name in rather than vote for her. And many people here feel same without knowing him. She’d run a good chance of losing the most consistently blue state in the country because of what she did.

[DMC]

Yeah I just think you're being petty.  That's politics, you should know that more than most.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Of course that’s politics and I’m being petty. Did you think I wasn’t aware of that? It’s not hard to recognize bad behaviors and still lean into them. Hell, I’m on my fourth FF draft in four days tonight. My liver is hurting man.

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Hell, I’m on my fourth FF draft in four days tonight. My liver is hurting man.

Heh, I can empathize with the liver hurting - although I don't know what "FF draft" means?

Edit:  Wait, just got it.  Football Fantasy, right?  Most of my friends who do that just have the draft online.

[Larry of the Lawn]

19 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Of course that’s politics and I’m being petty. Did you think I wasn’t aware of that? It’s not hard to recognize bad behaviors and still lean into them. Hell, I’m on my fourth FF draft in four days tonight. My liver is hurting man.

The singling out of Gillibrand I think is mostly just misogyny, maybe not in your case but on the whole that's what it sounds like.  There are a lot of Dems and left leaving voters who wanted Franken to resign, but Gillibrand has been dragged through the mud on this one.  Not a big fan of Gillibrand but the treatment she's gotten on this really pisses me off.

[Jace, Extat]

15 minutes ago, DMC said:

Heh, I can empathize with the liver hurting - although I don't know what "FF draft" means?

Edit:  Wait, just got it.  Football Fantasy, right?  Most of my friends who do that just have the draft online.

One does not simply "draft online" in a Jace league.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

That's the league where you have to tattoo your pick on your body with a filthy needle, right?

Not judging, but at least you only got committed players in your league, if they go down the whole hepatitis route.

On that notion, I salute your commitment to the Jace League Ty.

[Paladin of Ice]

2 hours ago, TrueMetis said:

I think those most seriously impacted by this would be immigrant US service members. If they aren't citizens, and their children aren't considered to be residing in the US for their birth, then they're kids are pretty much screwed on the citizenship thing aren't they? Combined with recent deportation of military veterans and military spouses this paints a grim picture in my mind.

I found myself turning the whole thing around in my head during a quiet few minutes at and started wondering if they were the target of this... quite a few immigrants enlist to help with the naturalization process, and I’ve occasionally read the alt/racist right making resentful and/or disgusted comments about immigrants who go into the military, equating them with mercenaries and saying that we need them in the military at all is a sign of American softness and decadence. (I find them referring to immigrants and permanent residents as mercenaries like it’s a bad thing is ironic, since I also sometimes read them proclaiming their love for the stereotypical merc: no conscience, no qualms, no laws of war, carries out whatever morally lacking orders they’re given without question, etc.)

We’ve seen in the past that Republicans are plenty willing to turn on servicemen and women in a heartbeat under the right conditions, (see the gay serviceman relentlessly booed and heckled at a Romney rally when he mentioned his service and his orientation) it wouldn’t surprise me if this comes from a very similar place as the family separation policy: close down an avenue meant to help immigrants by threatening their families.

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Nobody is talking conspiracy at all -- except you.  As even written about today -- nothing as a conspiracy, but a reaction of KG's, however, perhaps, well meaning and sincere, but, it did create the result of taking Franken off the political board.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-running-to-win-women-didnt-work-for-gillibrand/

 

Apologies, your prior post about how she’d already played her part by getting Franken out of the way for Democrats and bedbugs sounded like some conspiracy theory where the party/party leadership wanted Franken out of the way and Gillibrand took point on the effort to push him out or something along those lines.

[ThinkerX]

Conservative dream come true - Obama possibly having to testify about the origins of the Russia Investigation.  Of course, this could backfire big time on conservatives

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/graham-open-to-putting-obama-under-oath-in-probe-into-russia-investigation-origins/ar-AAGvoLv?ocid=ob-fb-enus-580&fbclid=IwAR13VPB3vYqK3f42LLEILNZ31SMN4GdnZvPn1PWZ7pjEuxUYANjQ6HRp_PU

 

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Lindsey Graham says he is open to putting Barack Obama under oath as he probes potential White House involvement in opening an investigation into unproven ties between the 2016 Trump campaign and Russia.

 

Graham says one of the biggest remaining mysteries in the Trump-Russia saga that needs to be unraveled is who told President Obama about the counterintelligence investigation into then-candidate Donald Trump. The South Carolina Republican wants answers from the former president.

As part of his probe, Graham is prepared to call former FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, former FBI Director James Comey, former CIA Director John Brennan, and former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper to testify.

Graham joined Sean Hannity on Fox News on Wednesday night to say he was determined to get to the bottom of the launching of the Trump-Russia investigation, and that the “bottom line” for him was figuring out what Obama knew, when he knew it, and whom he learned it from.

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Paladin of Ice said:

Apologies, your prior post about how she’d already played her part by getting Franken out of the way for Democrats and bedbugs sounded like some conspiracy theory where the party/party leadership wanted Franken out of the way and Gillibrand took point on the effort to push him out or something along those lines.

L'affaire du Frankin, and Gillbrand and her failure to launch is being cited in many places, and not as a conspiracy.  It was about women, which issues she's positioned herself with, with all sincerity probably, and leaped before calculating ahead less than two years. At the time she was well understood to want to go for the Dem nom.  As, for example, here:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/29/kirsten-gillibrand-drops-out-2020-race-1477845

Quote

 

Gillibrand’s challenges weren’t limited to standing out in a crowded field. From the outset, she was asked often about her political transformation, from a conservative House member from upstate New York to a staunchly liberal senator. She was repeatedly pressed on being the first Democratic senator to call for Franken to resign. Gillibrand defended the move, noting that eight women had accused the Minnesota Democrat of sexual misconduct, but said, "If a few Democratic donors are angry because I stood by eight women, that’s on them.”

Hours after Gillibrand’s announcement Wednesday night, both she and Franken trended on Twitter together, seemingly inextricably linked.
“Franken was definitely a problem in terms of fundraising,” the person familiar with the Gillibrand campaign said. “He just kept coming up, over and over again.”

Jen Palmieri, Clinton’s former communications director, said there was “no question” that the Franken ordeal had a “huge, outsized impact on her.”

“The sub-current of her entire candidacy was the Franken resignation and people unfairly pinning that on her,” Palmieri said. “It’s a crowded field, and it’s hard for all the candidates, but that really hampered her.”

 

It wasn't the only negative about her, as there were quite a few others. Nor is she at all alone in the history of politics of having made a miscalculation that ended a career.

As for this voter, she couldn't make me warm to her.  I'm wondering if this is partially due to a reason I never felt warm about Hillary -- she always looks so uncomfortable in her clothes, whatever form and style and color she chooses.

Whereas Elizabeth Warren always looks perfectly comfy. She has a uniform that proved to work for her in nearly any context, from the House to the barn, in terms of never having to think about what she's wearing now, and that contributes to her projection of authenticity and sincerity.

[ThinkerX]

coming next, a newer deadlier flue season, brought to you by ICE -

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us-resists-urging-by-experts-to-give-illegal-immigrants-flu-shots/ar-AAGtsf6?ocid=msnclassic

 

The world’s top infectious disease experts say the U.S. government has a responsibility to provide preventative care such as flu vaccines to migrants immediately after they are taken into custody, but the federal agency involved says disease prevention is not its job.

 

“The introduction of the Influenza vaccine and other vaccines … is something we need to start thinking about from day one when these people come into our responsibility,” Dr. William Schaffner, an infectious diseases specialist at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville, told the Washington Examiner.

 

“As a law enforcement agency, and due to the short term nature of CBP holding and logistical challenges, operating a vaccine program is not feasible," the U.S. Customs and Border Protection said in a statement to the Washington Examiner. "Both ICE and HHS have comprehensive medical support services and can provide vaccinations as appropriate to those in their custody,” a CBP spokesperson wrote in an email, though without providing details.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, DMC said:

Heh, I can empathize with the liver hurting - although I don't know what "FF draft" means?

Edit:  Wait, just got it.  Football Fantasy, right?  Most of my friends who do that just have the draft online.

That’s the rub though. In person drafts means two tall boys at a B-Dubs. Online means a giant glass of whiskey being chugged followed by slow sipping scotch and beer with a lil .

[Fragile Bird]

Trump just cancelled a trip to Poland, sending Pence instead.

He said he's staying in Washington because "it's really important to monitor Hurricane Dorian".

Category 5 hurricanes weren't worth his attention, but a 4 that might his resort has to be watched carefully.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

The singling out of Gillibrand I think is mostly just misogyny, maybe not in your case but on the whole that's what it sounds like.  There are a lot of Dems and left leaving voters who wanted Franken to resign, but Gillibrand has been dragged through the mud on this one.  Not a big fan of Gillibrand but the treatment she's gotten on this really pisses me off.

You’re absolutely right to say that misogyny is playing a role to some degree in the evaluation of Gillibrand, but I think there could be another factor in play: her location. The NYC media plays a huge role in driving the national dialogue, and if one of the first senators to call for his resignation is from NY, that will get a lot of attention. And she made a show of it, further magnifying the coverage. There were some on left, elected officials and everyday people alike, who were calling for him to resign before Gillibrand did, but once she came out against him, it was over. I literally said to myself "he's f***ed" once I saw her presser.

[The Anti-Targ]

5 hours ago, TrueMetis said:

I think those most seriously impacted by this would be immigrant US service members. If they aren't citizens, and their children aren't considered to be residing in the US for their birth, then they're kids are pretty much screwed on the citizenship thing aren't they? Combined with recent deportation of military veterans and military spouses this paints a grim picture in my mind.

Yes, that's for sure. They should apply the Starship Troopers policy: service guarantees citizenship. Though I think that should extend to beyond military service, it should include police and emergency services, at least. I don't see why putting your life on the line in the military should be regarded as more worthy than doing it in a domestic setting. And it's not like drone pilots are even putting their lives on the line, though maybe they're putting their mental health on the line, which is putting one's life on the line.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

You’re absolutely right to say that misogyny is playing a role to some degree in the evaluation of Gillibrand, but I think there could be another factor in play: her location. The NYC media plays a huge role in driving the national dialogue, and if one of the first senators to call for his resignation is from NY, that will get a lot of attention. And she made a show of it, further magnifying the coverage. There were some on left, elected officials and everyday people alike, who were calling for him to resign before Gillibrand did, but once she came out against him, it was over. I literally said to myself "he's f***ed" once I saw her presser.

@larrytheimp and the quoted post: I wouldn't be so quick to insist that it's misogyny that is causing people to blame her for coming out against Franken.

Here is the most in-depth discussion I've seen about the allegations against Franken. The article also discusses Gillibrand's role in calling for his resignation. Regardless of if there were some minor elected officials and ordinary people who may have been calling for his resignation, Gillibrand was the first and most prominent elected official, not to mention a colleague of Franken's, to do so.

And that pissed a lot of people off, including some of her long-time supporters. Franken and his staff had already called for hearings by the Ethics Committee to call witnesses and to allow the accusers to make their case in front of a quasi-judicial setting. But this was an obvious opportunity to remove a possible 2020 rival from the field, so Gillibrand jumped past all that and demanded his resignation on Facebook and then at a press conference.

In my opinion, acknowledging that she was the catalyst that led to him agreeing to resign isn't misogynistic. And neither is being angry with her for purposefully leveraging the situation for personal gain at the expense of letting the allegations and facts be brought forward and weighed in a public hearing, rather than being bandied about and amplified by the right-wing echo chamber.

And finally, this gets back to the question I asked in the previous thread, part of which was about the importance of recognizing that there are degrees of offense. Even if Franken was guilty of every accusation against him, no one could reasonably claim that the severity of those allegations were anywhere similar to the other #MeToo allegations coming to light at that time.

Gillibrand badly miscalculated how her actions would be perceived, and it came back and bit her on the ass during her run for the nomination. That's not misogyny in my book, just short-sightedness.