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A Song of Ice and Fire "Champions" (Theory)


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Hello everone, i want to share my own theory about long night and it's champions.
First, I'm sorry for my poor English, i helped from google translate, hope you can understand what i mean.
The legend of the Long Night and AA has been discussed many times, but I want to approach it from a different topic. As you know, there are two fundamental forces in the universe of asoiaf, and we are reading the war of these two forces; ice and fire.
Power representing the ice side; It's called the Great Other. He is the god of death, of terror, of night. The Spirit of Ice.
Power representing the fire side; It's called R'hllor. He is the god of light, of life, of fire.
"...The war has been waged since time began, and before it is done, all men must choose where they will stand. On one side is R'hllor, the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of Flame and Shadow. Against him stands the Great Other whose name may not be spoken, the Lord of Darkness, the Soul of Ice, the God of Night and Terror. Ours is not a choice between Baratheon and Lannister, between Greyjoy and Stark. It is death we choose, or life. Darkness, or light." Melisandre
And this...
"The way the world is made. The truth is all around you, plain to behold. The night is dark and full of terrors, the day bright and beautiful and full of hope. One is black, the other white. There is ice and there is fire. Hate and love. Bitter and sweet. Male and female. Pain and pleasure. Winter and summer. Evil and good." She took a step toward him. "Death and life. Everywhere, opposites. Everywhere, the war." Melisandre
Of cource from Melisandre's perspective "Great Other... dead... is pure evil" But if we could ask it to ice side, they will said same thing for fire side, yeah? So do not mind the words of good and evil. Just focus the sides... I always say "the war between ice and fire" is like same as Stark and Lannister war. We saw both sides did bad things(Arya POVs), and both sides had good reason for battle. Who can say Starks are pure good but Lannisters are pure evil? I'm a Stark fan and i cannot say this.
So let's return our battle. Ice side wants eternal winter and fire side wants eternal summer. Well, i can say both of this are not good something, this is not a balance. Imagine living in the heat of desert or cold waether of north pole. Just one season, nothing more. Wildings live in north and they doesn't want to live there because life is so hard in there.
And I know, AA sound like a hero but who knows this? Really, we should trust the prophecises? I do not think so.
GRRM: " Prophecies are, you know, a double edge sword. You have to handle them very carefully; I mean, they can add depth and interest to a book, but you don’t want to be too literal or too easy... "
and Marwyn
"Born amidst salt and smoke, beneath a bleeding star. I know the prophecy." Marwyn turned his head and spat a gob of red phlegm onto the floor. "Not that I would trust it. Gorghan of Old Ghis once wrote that a prophecy is like a treacherous woman. She takes your member in her mouth, and you moan with the pleasure of it and think, how sweet, how fine, how good this is . . . and then her teeth snap shut and your moans turn to screams. That is the nature of prophecy, said Gorghan. Prophecy will bite your prick off every time." He chewed a bit. "Still . . ."
and Tyrion
"Prophecy is like a half-trained mule," he complained to Jorah Mormont. "It looks as though it might be useful, but the moment you trust in it, it kicks you in the head."
So guys, do not trust prophecy so much. :)
It doesn't mean AA is evil, forget evil word or good, ok? Both sides want to win this war this why they need a campion, and this champions are hero for their sides, that's all. Yeah but not for everyone, special not for common folk. You know, always common folk gets hurt in somebody's war.
Also AA prophecy comes from Asshai, a hero, a savior... That place so close to Yi Ti, Dawn Empire. Who caused the Long Night? Blood Stone Emperor. The Long Night was a punishmed for them(Dawn people and their emperor)which it was sent by Night's Lion. Some kind of revenge(ice is revenge). Who was Night's Lion? God of Night, God of Dead! So this why AA is against to ice, Great Other(Night's Lion).
But at Westeros, there is no AA or savior, a hero against Great Other... Yeah, there is a Last Hero, true but his story and mission are little different from aa's story.
According to Asshai, AA finished the Long Night but according to North, Last Hero found Childiren of Forest and get put together them and Night's Watch and First Men and fought against Others and won somehow.
The Champions
Actually, I want to focus on this word. R’hllor's warrior is also known as the “champion"
In the ASOIAF universe, in battles, sometimes there are champions both sides. They fight each other for win, In this way, sometimes armies do not have to fight... You need a champion if you want a trial by combat at Westeros. Of course, the other side has a champion too. Of your champion wins, you survive.
In summary, if there is a champion, it has to be valid for both sides.
Champions of Ice and Fire
Is there champion of ice? Well at least, we know Melisandre think so.
But beyond the Wall, the enemy grows stronger, and should he win the dawn will never come again. She wondered if it had been his face that she had seen, staring out at her from the flames. No. Surely not. His visage would be more frightening than that, cold and black and too terrible for any man to gaze upon and live. The wooden man she had glimpsed, though, and the boy with the wolf's face … they were his servants, surely … his champions, as Stannis was hers.
We might think that the ice side will have a champion. Like fire side.
Well we assume fire side's champion is Dany. Yeah, some people thinks Jon is AA but AA must be full fire but he is ice and fire by his parents. Dany suits more than him and looks she fulfilled the prophecy.
Also i belive Jon is a balance; he is ice and fire; dark and light; dead and life. First Dawn Emperor was son of Maiden of Light(fire) and Night's Lion(ice) and in his reign there was wealth and peace. Why? Because he was half ice, half fire; half light, half night; half dead, hald life... He was balance. If you realize Jon also dead now and when he comes back he will literally be dead and life, a ghost, neither literally dead nor alive, but both. There is a darkness inside him (especially after resurrection) and also there is light. I belive you got it. :)
So ok, Jon is balance... Dany is AA... then who is Ice's champion?
R'hllor's champion was full fire. Great Other's champion must be full ice? A Stark. A First Men, Daughter of North. Someone who smells death. Someone serving the god of death. Arya Stark.
She says the names of the people she wants to die in her prayer. Death accepts it. Why is that? Because she is messenger of dead, champion of Great Other.
Women are in a strong position in this book. Usually we are used to seeing men in the foreground in everything. That's why we're waiting for the hero or anything like that to turn out to be men. But not in this book. 5000 years ago, The Others's leader(or something like that) was a women; Night's Queen. We do not know what was it but she had a plan and used for this a NW member, Lord Commander, probably a Stark. Night's King.
If AA ise Dany, then it makes sense that Great Other's champion is a woman. It would be fun to watch two women's war. Dragon Queen and Wolf Queen, ice and fire. Also Arya's skills for what? Just for kill her list? No! He is one of the big five of GRRM. Like the other four, she should have a big impact on this war.
“If a twelve-year old has to conquer the world, then so be it.”
I belive FM is connected Great Other. God of Dead is Great Other. And Arya with them. Jaqen was around Arya and lead her to FM. Why? Too young to be FM. The Kind Man said her training would take years. But she's only been there for a few months, but she took a face. They taught her. They know exactly what she wants, but they keep her with them. They're giving her an accelerated course.
Ghost of High Heart saw what was inside her and her future
The dwarf woman studied her with dim red eyes. "I see you," she whispered. "I see you, wolf child. Blood child. I thought it was the lord who smelled of death . . ." She began to sob, her little body shaking. "You are cruel to come to my hill, cruel. I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours. Begone from here, dark heart. Begone!"
Arya hears some whisper. Sounds like someone's talking to him.
Calm as still water, a small voice whispered in her ear. Arya was so startled she almost dropped her bundle. She looked around wildly, but there was no one in the stable but her, and the horses, and the dead men. Quiet as a shadow, she heard. Was it her own voice, or Syrio's? She could not tell, yet somehow it calmed her fears.
And this.
"But there is no pack," she whispered to the weirwood. Bran and Rickon were dead, the Lannisters had Sansa, Jon had gone to the Wall. "I'm not even me now, I'm Nan." "You are Arya of Winterfell, daughter of the north. You told me you could be strong. You have the wolf blood in you." “Wolf blood,” Arya now remembered.
So what do you think?
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I was very resistant to this idea at the start, but I'm beginning to like it more and more.

I'm already thinking that destiny, the story of the gods, the song of ice and fire will be played out through ordinary people - it picks up story elements like puppeteers, mummers, cyvasse. So champions is good.

The House of Black and White is in opposition to Rhllor: the FM say all men must die; the red priests say the followers of AA need not stay dead, but will rise again (iirc).

On the other hand - Mel always seems to link her great enemy with darkness only, and the FM are half black half white: they make me think of the moon. I'm not sure, but Mel does thank Rhllor for the stars at night - is the moon a gift of Rhllor also?

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Thank you, I'm glad you like it. :) 

3 hours ago, Springwatch said:

On the other hand - Mel always seems to link her great enemy with darkness only, and the FM are half black half white: they make me think of the moon. I'm not sure, but Mel does thank Rhllor for the stars at night - is the moon a gift of Rhllor also?

I was thinking about it too, why FM half black hand half white? OK. They say "All men must die" this black side;death, and "All men must serve" and this is white side? Life.? Everyone will die eventually but first we will live and serve. Kind of a "balance"? If there is life, it's mean there is death too. If there is death, it's mean there is life too. Connected eachother, you cannot separate them. Seems FM understand this lifetime but not R'hllor's followers? Even Mel doesnt want to sleep, because sleep is small death. She hates death! Probably she is a fire wight, Asshai people might be fire wights. 

Moon? I belive Moon belongs to Great Other. In books, usually when we see "moon" there is a death there. https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2cm6go/spoilers_all_the_moon_ice_and_death_a_theory_made/

You know, the sun is fire and rules the day and the moon is water, actually (ice, frozen water) and rules the night. Braavos found by moon singers and Braavosi people hate fire dragons, Valyria. FM House's has a moon door. Everything in Braavos is connected to the moon and water. And cats too. Cat are a moon animal and wolfs too. And dragons are sun animal. Arya connected with them too; Water Dance, FM, Braavos and cats too.



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Interesting, thanks.

I tried to find out how the red priests feel about the moon - it should valued by them, because moonlight is genuinely helpful to travellers at night (starlight is far too weak). This is what I found:

  • Mel says (once) that R'hllor made the moon. Fair enough, he is the Lord of Light. BUT
  • We hear R'hllor's followers praying many times, and the moon is always left out. There are thanks for the sun that warms them, the stars that watch over them, and the torches that hold back the savage dark. No thanks for the moon.

One possibility is they somehow know that the moon has no fire of its own, but borrows the light of the sun. But the reddit author you linked to makes a good case that Benerro actively hates the moon: he jabs a finger at it, makes a fist, and goes on to talk of a dark eye falling on Daenerys.

I think the answer is Benerro thinks like Melisandre, all or nothing, as shown in the onion quote: "If half of an onion is black with rot, it is a rotten onion." Half a moon is an evil moon.

So at the end of all this, I still think the battle is between light and dark. It doesn't change anything, but I think what the red priests hate and fear is the dark face of the moon (which might be a fitting image for Arya, who is a dark heart where Dany is a bright heart).


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14 hours ago, Springwatch said:

So at the end of all this, I still think the battle is between light and dark. It doesn't change anything, but I think what the red priests hate and fear is the dark face of the moon (which might be a fitting image for Arya, who is a dark heart where Dany is a bright heart).


Also remember, Arya always came back to FM house when the moon is dark, that 3days she was serving and later she was returning to became Cat of the Cannals. 

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